Ronnie Brown an Average Back

How was I giving credit to Matt Cassel? I said he had the system and the players to succeed, and he did. BUT, he doens't have that in KC. And he shouldn't get a contract extension with KC until he proves he can play with them.
Same with Ronnie Brown. He doens't deserve an extension until he proves he can put up elite numbers. Do I think he can put up elite numbers? Yes. But I don't want to give him an extension till he does.

 

My God someone always has to bring this up.

All the positions on this team that are truly questionable and it's Ronnie Brown that always seems to get the most criticism. It's comical to me personally. He's been one of the most solid players on this team for a number of years now.

Oh my! How can you say that? He hasn't had top fantasy stats so he's avg. LOL.

THe guy has been on a pretty talentless team for a number of years.
He's had some fluke injuries.
He's been stuck in a RB committee since he was drafted so he's been underused and underutilized.

For as bad a HC Cameron was, he learned from his initial mistake of not utilizing Ronnie Brown often in the offense. Once he decided to focus a lot of the offense (rush and passing game) on Brown, Brown was on his way to a top year.

THe guy clearly has the talent. People who don't see that haven't paid attention to what he does when he gets the ball added to how underused he's been.

At least were over the Ronnie Brown is a bust crap.

 

my bad, my eighties *** should of known that

 

No wonder you have excepted Chad so well.

 

Missed Mr. Average big time last year didn't ya?

 

{Matt cassell is just a metaphor in this discussion}... so, you want him, to prove to you, what he did in new england, he can do in kansas city, without the pieces that you have already said he does'nt have going in..hmm, bro, your gonna have a hard time building a football team with your philosophy, where is your projection in your analysis. Players are given contacts all the time without performing for their prospective teams.

Its about identifying the player that you want at each position, then putting the pieces together one by one, certain positions getting more dollars then others...and when your starting from 1 and 15, its all about the Gm's talent to project, not wait and see. Thats the game, and whoevers good at it, wins the trophy.

 

Ok, sign Ronnie Brown to a huge contract. He doesn't peform up to your expectations. He continues putting up average stats. What do you do? You're stuck with him. The smart thing to do is to have the wait and see approach. If by midseason he is performing and is having an amazing year, then I think we should sign him. But not now. It's to early, IMO.

And I am not disrespecting Ronnie Brown. I don't understand why people think I am disrespecting him. All I'm saying is, wait and see. If he has the amazing year we all expect him to have, resign him. If he doesn't, it's time to let go.

 

He won't put up Adrian Peterson type stats in this offense, no RB will. What you have to look at are signs that he's being productive when given the opportunity, his YPC average has always been very good, that's all I need to see to be honest. If anyone is looking for RB to rush for 1,500 in this offense, they are going to be disappointed. That doesn't mean that Ronnie isn't effective, that's just the nature of the 2 RB system. It also doesn't mean that RB's are a dime a dozen and that just any RB can step in and fill the role.

 

You would hope that considering we spent a #2 overall on him and the history of Miami running backs isn't all that great.

 

That's just silly.

How many SB rings does AP, LT, MJD have? None. The same as Brown. Name the last elite RB that brought his team to the big game? None in this decade outside of maybe Bus.

The point is, RB is the best back in the league, for this specific team. To say otherwise is means you suffer from stat-lust.

JT & Ricky lead the league one year in their positions: no playoffs.

We lead nothing last year: division champs

 

Freak injuries or not, they are still injuries. Some guys just seem destined to pick up these freak injuries every year. At what point do we actually not consider them to be "freak" anymore?

So what's the reason he is being used as he is then?

Yeah he did actually. He split carries between them even although one of the guys hadn't played any NFL football in over 2 years, even after spending the #2 overall on the other guy.
Splitting carries would indicate to me that he wasn't the feature back.

Funny but the system CamCam ran for years in San Diego worked pretty well with only 1 back carrying the load. I didn't see that back getting demoted to kickoff return duties and being named behind Jesse "I ate my way out the NFL" Chatman on the depth chart either.

Hmm, ok, I'll give you that one.

And part of his carries per game being low are because he isn't the feature back.

The NFL may be evolving into a 2 back league but those who are considered elite don't seem to be sharing many carries for some reason. (Cue argument that Ronnie would be elite if he got the carries, cue comeback he would get injured if he got those carries, Ad infinitum)

 

Each to their own and all that but I'm swapping Ronnie for AP everyday of the week and twice on a Sunday.
That's not stat-lust that's just common sense.

 

If your definition of common sense is different than the dictionary's.

What exactly can you point too, that makes AP better than Brown IYO, if not a blind comparison of field stats?

AP would put up the same or worse numbers than RB in this offense. Not too mention he may be disgruntled for having to share the load and not be the focal point, which he'd have to do, regardless of his status.

Following your "common sense" McDonald's has the best hamburgers ever, anywhere, cause they've sold more of them.

 

AP had 363 carries for 1760 yds & 10 TDs. That's a 4.8 ypc.

RB had 214 carries for 916 yds & 10 TDs. That's a 4.3 ypc.

If Ronnie had the same amount of carries as AP and maintained his same average of 4.3, he'd have 1560 yds. I mere 200 less than the almighty AP. However, if we average out TDs, he'd have 17.

P.S. Oh yeah, he was returning from an ACL.

No effing way, is AP better than RB.

 

Ronnie Brown has done little to prove he's more than an average NFL back in his first four seasons, simple as that... He may turn the corner this season. The stage seems to be set for a great running game, however. he will have to be that great (elite ) RB to continue playing for Miami. I predict an excellent year running Tandem with Ricky. They both should go well over a thousand yards with the Orca-5 in front of them.
Spin it anyway you want, it is what it is. He will have a final opportunity to prove himself this year or negotiate a TandemBack contract or move on. Front Office will not pay an elite contract unless he is or becomes this year an elite player. I hope he has that elite season but honestly think we'll be looking to the draft after this season.

 

Based on what? You have no basis for your statements except stats. And if you really look at those stats, you'll see Brown is every bit the back that AP is and more.

 

I base my opinion on stats & Browns' history since college as a tandem back.
Williams carried the offense for years w/o a passing game or run block, that is what an elite back does & that is what Ronnie has not been able to do consistently throughout his football career.
By the way, to be an elite back you need to have elite stats. We are no longer dealing with a rookie RB, it is what it is. 2009 has to be an elite season for Brown or he will be gone or sign a lesser contract with Miami.
The Tandem should be excellent, even elite amongst NFL tandems. I see no problem with this running game. Very possibly one of the best running stables in the NFL.
The Tandem from Hell should burn turf behind the Orca-5.

 

No you don't. You cherry pick the stats. You look at total yardage and that's it. Which is wrong.

Carries, ypc, are the 2 most important. They tell you the most amount of accurate info. His 4.4 average for 3 years is absolutely elite. Last year his TDs were elite. What more do you really want? 1500 yds? Why does that matter without carries as a factor? If a guy carried the ball 500 times in a season, 1500 yds is a travesty.

 

i know your not but When you say things like "we can EASILY find his replacement in the draft at a much cheaper price...iam not sure what it is your really trying to say....To me i interpret that as, you not caring whether or not he stays a miami dolphin..

I adamantly do, because i already know he's an elite player in my eyes thats going to be playing in a system that completely takes advantage of his skillset, and all thats needed to be done is to surround him with the variables that all sucessful running backs have when producing their fantasy numbers.

You dont want a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick taking this offense into the 21st century. you want ronnie brown handling all those responsibilities.

At the latest i sign him 4 games into the season.

 

you have questions whether or not he will produce with good variables around him....i dont, thats where we disagree.

 

I dont' know why everyone gets so heated about anything about Ronnie. We all know what he can do.

But reality is, to be considered great, he needs to have the numbers. We could look at lots of "average" backs last year or the year before and say, well if they had a better oline they would be elite too. Doesn't work that way.

Until he DOES produce 1500 yrds and 10+ TD's. He will be considered average. I don't ever remember hearing someone say he's an average talent, who produces ok numbers. But what Ronnie has done to date, he has been average.

I agree with Crunch when he said he expects a big year from Ronnie. THe reasons: he's in great shape, and over the fluke injuries. Also, he has been given the talent around (esp. oline upgrades) to have more production. ALso Ricky is getting older, i don't think he'll get as many carries this year, should ronnie do what we all expect him to do, which is prove that he can produce like an elite back.

We've seen flashes, and should he be in a good situation injury and teamate wise, he should have elite numbers this year. But to get defensive when someone writes he's been average so far is not right. Because he has been average, slightly above average so far. He needs to consistently produces like the flashes of greatness we've seen from him for a whole season to be considered "elite" in my opinion, but i expect him to do so this year.

 

I'm amazed people get paid for this rubbish.

 

He has produced elite numbers. Total rushing yards is meaningless without number of carries.

Without factoring that in, it is no different than someone winning a race when they start 100 ft away from the finishing line, while their opponent had to start 500 ft away. The 100 ft away guy crosses the line first, is he faster than the 500 ft away guy?

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/common+sense

If you removed your aqua tinted glasses that is a pretty accurate description.

Apart from having 2 perfectly working eyes? How about, vision, explosiveness, elusiveness and speed?

In your opinion.
Mine's says he would put up better numbers and he would be the focal point. With his kind of talent he becomes the focal point, simply really.
The Vikings have a very good runner in Chester Taylor who split carries with AP his rookie season. What happened last year?

What you mean they don't?

 

Seriously?
Only on a Dolphins forum would you see that statement.

Since I've been looking at the dictionary, here's a good word to describe that statement...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insanity

 

It is insanity. If someone wants to make an argument that Ronnie Brown is at times as good as AP, maybe I can buy that. But there is no evidence whatsoever for anybody to make a statement as if it were fact that Ronnie Brown is better than Adrian Peterson. Anybody who says otherwise has a bad case of homerism.

It is hard to compare the two directly due to workload, offensive system, etc. The best we can do is look at seasons in which they had a similar number of carries.

In 2006 Ronnie Brown carried the ball 241 times for 1,008 yards.

In 2007 Adrian Peterson carried the ball 238 times for 1,341
yards.

Adrian Peterson with nearly the same amount of carries in his rookie campaign was approximately 25% more productive than Ronnie Brown in his 2nd season. This doesn't absolutely prove anything. But at the very least it should make it clear that nobody can absolutely claim Ronnie Brown is the better back.

 

I dont think any of us think that ronnie is the better running back then AD...i dont...Its about what we need moving forward and the direction were going..

If you wanna scrap the wildcat and go strait traditional, i would swap ronnie for AD strait up. but for what this regime is envisioning imo, ronnie is the back.

 

Look at the numbers, even from just last year. In less carries Ronnie had the same amount of TDs and nearly the same ypc. The only difference was the 100+ more carries AP had. That is inarguable.

 

Ronnie Brown may never put up huge numbers, so why resign him to a big contract when you can replace his production via the draft? And I mean production from 2005-2009. He has been a good running back, but not an elite runningback.

 

Ok, who brought up superbowl rings? No one. Superbowl rings are not won by one player, it's a team effort.

And Ronnie Brown has done nothing elite to warrant a contract extension. So far, he has been a good running back. A good runningback I think can be replaced via the draft. Why? Because an elite offensive line can make any runningback look good, and I think that is where we are headed.

 

THANK YOU! COMPLETELY AGREE!
Except for the bolded part. I'm keeping my lips shut when predicting Ronnie Brown's stats. I want to see for myself what he is capable of doing.

 

An elite offensive line can make any runningback good, and I think that is where we are headed. We can plug a runningback via the draft and have him do as good as Ronnie Brown has done 2005-2009.

Now, if he has an elite year this year, by all means sign him to a contract extension. I would just like the FO to take the wait and see approach.

 

An elite runningback has to show us he can carrie the load. Ronnie Brown has not done that yet. If he does get the majority of the carries this year, and is productive, then he will be considered elite. Until then, he is a good, not elite, runningback to me.

 

Finascious, i understand your reasoning. However, number of carries is something elite backs have. Ronnie does not. All elite backs get lots of carries, why? because their great at what they do. And total rushing yards are not meaningless, its a strong indicator of how much production if not the primary tool to evaluate some one who carries the ball on the ground for a living. To dismiss it is just wrong when evaluating a running back.
Yes there are tons of intangible things each back has or does not have, but the end of the day, do they gain yards, do they score points or put your offense in a position to score points. And total yardage over a season is a HUGE indicator of how good a back is.

Thats like saying a Running back who touches the ball once and goes 80 yards for a TD, who has a 80 YPC is the best back the NFL has ever seen. The logic is there but your not comparing apples to apples.

The competition that are the other runningbacks in the league and so called elite backs, LT minus last year, Adrian Peterson, these guys did it all, and did it all very very well. Stack what they do compared to the other running backs like ronnie and there is no comparison. The only thing you can argue is the what if scenarios. Well you can what if for the elite backs too. What if AP had a better more respected QB, what if he had better WR's on the outside, what if Childress used him more? All potentially could make his numbers even better.

Elite backs carry the ball alot, change games, and do it consistently, game in, game out. For the whole season, from year to year. All i'm saying is ronnie hasn't done that yet for a million different reasons, most of which are not in Ronnie's control. So as of right now, based on what he has done, he's not elite, he's average or just above average.

But i'm of the opinion, from what i have seen ronnie do at the NFL level, that if his circumstances and opporutnities to touch the ball more improve, which i think they will this season, he has the talent to become an elite back. Top 5 perhaps. But has he done it yet? No he hasn't. He'll never be elite on promise, he has to accomplish it first. And i don't think he'll achieve the production that AP will have. Even with the ideal situation in front of him. AP is just that good. He's better than RB. But that doesn't mean we can't have a very dangerous running attack with Ronnie.

 

Extrapolating is fun, but it doesn't take into account other factors. We would guess what Brown would do over 300 carries. We KNOW what AP can do with that many carries.

I'm not saying cut Ronnie. I think he's awesome. I'm just saying, until he does it, it's a question mark of whether he can run 25 times a game over a season, and if he does, what his numbers would be.

 

Don't forget Fumbling.

On a side note, A good RB can make an oline better, a good Oline can make a good RB elite.

 

That sounds good crush, and its duly noted...Heres the origin of the arguement..

Is ronnie brown a great FOOTBALL player?..yes or no? If you take a poll of GM's around the league and his piers, what do you think the answer will be?.

Now, take into account what this regime is trying to do with this offense, AND, what you have seen ronnie do in it.

Everything else is mumbo schmumbo...you sign that player because he fits with what you want him to do, and you've already determined that the athlete is elite in terms of talent, and healthy going in. That imo is how you build a football team.

If anyone thinks GM's are up in their room crunching stats and fantasy numbers i disagree...Their turning on the tape, taking into account his past and surroundings and making an ascessment based on their talent to evaluate talent.

The only question i have about ronnie brown is, will he didicate himself moving forward in the art of training his body like a professional athlete should.

 

What I don't understand is, what's wrong with the wait and see approach? Why can't we wait and see if Ronnie Brown has that big year we expect him to have before we sign him?

 

Ronnie is not what worries me, what worries me is can our Oline handle this challenge and rise up.

 

I brought them up. That's the point of this whole football thing anyway.

So if by your definition of elite back, which is clearly based on total rushing yards and nothing else, then who was the last elite back t carry their team to the SB?