Here is a good question. Well at least I think so. At the beginning of the season there was an awful lot of conversation surrounding the Long Vs Ryan pick in last years draft. The concern was more to do with the success of Ryan than the lack of it from Long. As we all know Long made the Pro bowl in his rookie season and is well on his way in his second. The chatter was mainly relating to Ryan Vs Henne as it is well known that The Dolphins passed on Ryan to take long and then proceeded to take Henne with their second pick in the second round. This topic got quite heated both in the media with “experts” like Mel Kiper Jr once again slamming the dolphins for passing on Ryan. This talk was not limited to the media however it also divided the fans. After Jake, gave up 3 sacks in his first two games the subject matter got even more explosive. So here we are in week 14 of the season. Jake hasn’t given up any sacks in the last 11 games and we have finally had a chance to see Henne develop on the field. So once again I would like to revisit this topic and see how my other Fin fans feel.
I felt before the draft that Ryan was a slightly better prospect than Henne. I liked Ryan's accuracy (a little) and mobility (a lot) better. But I thought that Henne had a better arm. I thought Ryan was more polished and could play immediately. Long term, however, I thought Henne was maybe a slightly better prospect (although this was close and I vacillated often). Now my analysis is about the same, but I'm even higher on Henne. I wouldn't trade Henne for Ryan straight up. Not that I dislike Ryan, I just think that Henne is a perfect fit here. I had Long rated much higher than Baker. I thought Long could be our guy for the next 10 years. And I thought that he was the perfect fit for the offense we want to run. Baker I saw as good but not on Long's level. Now my analysis is largely unchanged. So, for me Long/Henne was the right choice at the time and I wouldn't want anything different in hindsight.
Well, and as it stands right now, it looks more and more like drafting genius on the part of Parcells and Co. And, I'm not taking anything away from Ryan, he's gonna be a great one IMO. But, I don't think there's anything to talk about. The better Henne plays, the smarter the Long pick looks. That's just the way it is. On a side note, I was actually hoping Miami would draft Brohm. So, when he came off the board one pick before Henne, I couldn't help but wonder if Brohm had still been there, would Miami have selected him instead. Well, almost two full seasons later, I couldn't be happier that it worked out the way it did because Henne looks like the real deal whereas Brohm is playing for his second team already.
I'll take Henne and Long. Imagine the success Henne would have with Tony Gonzalez and Roddy White to throw to.
the decision has taken a dophin advantage w/ the jacksonville game, where henne made his bones in the NFL it appears the IceMan is on his way to becoming an elite QB & the long sought (no pun intendeded) franchise piece to build an offense around -we go no where w/o a Franchise QB- 2010 will tell the complete story on the wisdom/luck of the draft in a definitive manner the IceMan cometh
Long & Henne FTW!! Hell, we had the best entire draft that year. Long, Merling, Henne, Langford, Thomas, Hilliard, Dostsen...That's freakin amazing! Even the '09 draft was solid. Davis, Smith, Hartline, Clemens. I could only imagine how much better the draft was if we didn't waste a luxury pick on P White.
The Phins never would have had the success they had last year if they had not addressed the LT position. The o-line is the foundation of the offense. If you can't block up front the rest won't matter much. 42 sacks the year of "the Cameron" and John Beck's confidence shot all in 16 games. Ryan would have been eating the Marlins infield had they drafted and started him.
That seems to be the perception but when you put both QB's head to head their numbers are very close. It also needs to be added that Ryan has a better group of receivers and a HOF tight end. Here are the two QB's as they are rated on Pro football Focus. Also seeing as the question was Henne Long Vs Ryan Baker Ill add in the stats from the same site on those two. Whats missing in this and screen cap (and its off topic) is where Clady is. I mention him because just the other day I was watching a game where an announcer flat out called him the best left tackle in the game. For those that are wondering he is ranked 18th and has given up 6 sacks this year.
@ the time of the draft I thought Clady @ left tackle & Ryan or Flacco would have been a better choice obviously, I am no Bill Parcells the Tuna knows football we need to see what things look like in 2010 however no doubt in anybody's mind that Henne does have what it takes to play elite in the nfl and Long is already one of the best left tackles in the nfl appears to me the Tuna w/right
It's too early to say between Ryan and Henne, IMHO. Ryan had a down year and this is Henne's first year starting, so we don't know if he, too, will hit a sophomore slump next season. Ask the question two years from now and maybe we can have a more educated idea who will have a better career. However, I CAN say that I am not displeased at all with getting Long and Henne in the draft.
Ryan is more polished than Henne, but with Ryan you have to wonder what his ceiling is. Long over Baker all day. Henne is intriguing because his ceiling is a complete unknown, he has moxy but can he develop touch and timing?
Eh...I think this is a good time to vote on something like this...... Why? Well...if Henne rips it up this year and next....obviously your gonna pick Henne. Not really going out on a branch when you have that much of a body of data to make a vote like this.... Heres what sets them apart IMO. Henne's compsure....he's ICE. I know they call Matt Ryan...Matty Ice sometimes....but Henne is as composed right now as Tom Brady...that quality is RARE. Henne's work ethic really impresses me....Ryan has had much better reciever targets to work with....and Henne has done this well...with this group...his first season....gotta say Henne IMO.
Their demeanor is a large part of why I had them rated so closely. And actually you could add Flacco in there too. Flacco was the rawest prospect but he may have had the most upside. That was why I never thought the Ryan pick made any sense. There were three QBs available that were similarly rated prospects and at least one of the three would be available with our second pick.
Don't skip over Brian Brohm though rafi, he went on pick ahead of C Henne, we got very very lucky with the Merling pick at #33, if the Pack had went Henne we would have been sunk. Flacco wound up on the best team that season, Ryan landed on a team that rode a monster year by Turner, and Henne would up riding the pine. Big Jake going to the Pro Bowl in his first season tipps the scales in our favor..sort of. How about Ryan-Baker-Curtis Lofton vs Jake Long-Phil Merling-Chad Henne?
I'm not sure they had QB high on the need list. I think they felt confident that Beck could develop so they just went BPA. When they got to the next pick Henne was just too good to pass up.
I didn't have Brohm rated as highly. I didn't hate him, but he seemed very boom or bust. I thought the other three were safer picks. And we did get lucky b/c I don't think they were targeting a QB. I think they were just going BPA. Between Lofton and Merling it would be close. Certainly Lofton is the greater need now, but Langford and Starks hadn't developed yet. IMO they've been about equivalent players at their respective positions. Sure, I'd rather have Lofton now b/c we're strong at DE and weak ILB, but I can't say it was a poor pick at the time.
TBH I was surprised the Packer took Brohm there, but they saw something they liked in him. Lofton makes it closer than it otherwise would be, I'd gladly take Lofton over Merling at the moment, but it is not a difference maker between Long/Henne and Ryan/Baker.
i'm the 2nd person, not the first I definitely think its close and the potential is there for Henne and Long too be much better choice. But as of today I still like the same things about Ryan I did coming out of college. His inatgibles are off the charts. And Henne is still having trouble on his deep accuracy. So long as Henne's deep game is limited I have to give it to Ryan. Still, Should Henne or Flacco improve just a touch either one could take over for Ryan since both have better arms and both seem to have good smarts. Jake Long is definitely better than Baker I believe though I havent really watched Baker this year. wasnt a huge fan of his in USC I think overall both drafts worked ouyt best for each team and if Henne improves his deep accuracy just slightly then Miami will have had the best draft out of any of the three....Miami, Baltimore, Atlanta
I thought now was as good a time as any for this discussion. The main reasons for this was this was a very heated topic at the beginning of the year. Long had given up some sakcs in the preseason and looked to be struggling a little. Then we played Atlanta and he got beat for two sacks and one of them he looked awful. I think he was pretty solid the rest of the game but I was in the minority on this. Well here are are close to the end of the season and we now have 10 games of tape to grade Henne on and two years of tape on Long, Ryan, and Baker. Peoples opinions change and I wanted to gauge that change. This doesn't mean that if we recreated this thread three years from now opinions might once again completly change.
I think his deep accuracy will go hand in hand with his receivers. Ryan definitely has better weapons at his disposal and yet the numbers this year are very simular. I thank you for your Opinion though =)
Hm...I clicked on the thread and when I saw this post music began playing: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGC003Xz3CY"]YouTube- Whitney Houston[/ame] why that happened...but it did..l
I think all 3 QB's can play...Flacco is really good ya'll, he's makin his mistakes, but physically, that dude can ball..I think right at this point, i would still list them at Flacco, Ryan, Henne, but not by much, next year henne can overtake.. Henne/Long was absolute genius by Parcells/Irish..
well his statistics will improve with better receivers but not his accuracy. For his accuracy to improve he's gotta do it all himself. I'm not talking about completions but rather hitting receivers deep and alson in stride on intermediate crossing patterns. Once he does that he becomes a very dangerous QB because the entire field will be open for him. Right now he's getting the ball to receivers but isnt yet optimizing them. Once he does he will be top tier. I really think that draft class of Ryan, Flacco, Henne will be quite comparable to Eli, Rivers, and Roethslisberger with Brohm playing the role of Losman
My thoughts behind that are he never has a receiver running wide open down field. All of his deep throws have to be fitting into a very tight window and even then our guys are not known for getting a lot of YAC when they do. Right now the difference between Ryan and Henne in Yards per Attempt is a mere 0.3 Yards. A lot of time it becomes a grass is always greener scenario where we see the highlights of another player on another team we surmise that they perform like that most of the time. I guess what I'm trying to get at in my usual long winded way is I haven't seen Henne miss on an extraordinary amount of deep throws to come to the conclusion that hes inaccurate deep. For example I watched Brady miss on 2 deep passes vs us and I would never say he's inaccurate deep. Time will tell though =)
Yes "The Ice Man" fits but for Henne to get over the hump he needs a little more "Maverick" in him IMHO! While I think we have the best of the three and they are all good enough to win I'm not so sure that any are worthy of the elite tag yet and may never be, only time will tell!
Ryan and Henne are pretty close, Henne has the potential to be just as good IMO but theres no comparison between Baker and Long, Long is one of the premier LTs in football, Baker is a body on the line. Long is one of our best draft picks ever IMO. I'd stick with our picks without hesitation.
Henne was the QB i wanted in that draft .... so i am perfectly happy that he is our QB. Coming off of his career in MICH vs Ryan at BC .... i still take Henne every day of the week. Henne is just too much like Brady ....
Its hard to judge Henne vs Ryan without considering the Long pick. As a package you have to love the picks together. This is Henne's first year as a starter and Ryan and Flacco's second year as starters. Henne hasn't even been the starter all year this year. I also feel like Flacco and Ryan went to established teams and Henne went to a team that is still building and establishing itself, but thats JMO.
I don't understand the criticism of his "deep accuracy". Henne needs to work on his accuracy in general. He can rifle it in there, but he's like the anti-Pennington. If Henne can work on his "touch" throws over the offeseason, it's not even close. Jake Long is an unqualified stud.