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Merged:How to destroy a young QB/ John Beck

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GISH, Dec 9, 2007.

  1. Bonedoc7777

    Bonedoc7777 New Member

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    i still think it is a great idea to draft another QB high in the draft, maybe Matt Ryan and now you have two QB'S, that gives you more chances of hitting big
     
  2. Hugo Guzman

    Hugo Guzman New Member

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    Would you like to go down the list of rookie quarterbacks that have been allowed to continue playing despite having multiple poor starts as opposed to the number of rookies, that like Beck, were pulled after just a handful of starts? (for a career backup no less)

    The mistake you're making is lumping Beck in with all quarterbacks (rookies, youngsters, veterans). Yes, most quarterbacks are eventually benched for poor play, but if you take the time to further analyze the situation at a more granular level, you will realize that very few rookies are put into that situation. A perfect example is Alex Smith in 2005, who was allowed to play through one of the most horrific quarterback campaigns in NFL history.

    I'm fairly confident that Beck would have stayed in the game if the Dolphins had a win or two under their belt. If Cameron wanted to go with the guy who was in the best position to win a game, which is clearly Lemon because of his experience and knowledge of the system, then he should have never brought Beck in.

    But if you're going to go with the rookie to build up his experience for the future, then let him take his lumps. Don't pull him less than a quarter into a football game.
     
  3. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    I think this is an absurd philosophy.

    Many QB's have been late blossomers . . . . and considering that Beck is still very YOUNG in FOOTBALL years . . . . he will be fine, even if he were to start at 29 . . . (god I hope not).

    I think Rich Gannon was an MVP at 37 . . . I mean the age IMO is not a big deal in this case.

    Right now I would be concerned with Beck being the guy or not. Trust me, it isn't fair to label him a bust or failure . . . . but there is definitely concern. This isn't Jason Allen here . . . . noone ever knew what Allen could bring, because he never got a real chance in games.

    Beck has gotten 4 chances . . . . and to say the least . . . he has looked AWFUL, he was shaky in the Philly game . . . but impressed me with his composure . . . . he had the best 0 point performance I ever seen against Pittsburgh . . . . I thought he really was solid . . . . but man the Jets and Bills exposed the kid. He cannot pickup the blitzer at all . . . he is a "deer" in the headlights . . . . and I am glad Cam made the switch.

    13 QUARTERS . . . . ZERO OFFENSIVE TD'S FOR MIAMI . . . . that is amazing . . . . not ZERO passing TD's . . . . ZERO OFFENSIVE TD's as a team . . . . thats crazy, the change needed to be made (this is not to slam u, but just stating this)

    Forget getting Beck experience for this year . . . . Cam needs to try and win, and get this team back . . . and its not right IF the team wasn't playing 100% when Beck is there . . . . but its Cam's fault because u can't just THROW your rookie in there, if he is not ready and Cleo wasn't playing horribly . . . maybe the vets felt like Cam wasn't giving them the best chance to win . . . and after today its obvious that Cleo does.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    How could anyone NOT notice?!
     
  5. zodiak

    zodiak New Member

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    Two thought here

    First the idea that a team could TRY to get its QB out of the game is very disturbing on two levels one they dont want him playing and two they think they have the right to decide who plays,this would be an example of why Cam Cameron doesnt belong as a head coach he doesnt have the respect from the team that he is the final word.

    Second and more to the point on John Beck in my time as a football fan (im 37) you ordinarily see in any player early in his career glimpses of talent,however to me the disconcerning thing with Beck is I havent seen it from him.
    I havent seen the strong arm(granted he has played in some very bad weather) havent seen the accuracy or mechanics(Becks delivery is at times almost side arm)and lastly havent seen the leadership skills any QB needs he almost looks as if he feels unwanted by the vets and is trying not to upset them.
    In my view I fear that Beck is at best a back up talent(before you flame I understand thats off a small sample of games but some of the facts are what they are 0 points as the QB)so the worst case senario that could play out for Miami has played out and thats after 4 games into the Beck experiment we know nothing more than before it started about John Beck.
     
  6. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    My take also. Ive seen some accuracy but its almost all dink and dunk. Not enough to hang your hat on. Nothing special so far, not even in glimpses
     
  7. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    cutler? You're kidding, right?

    you are referring to "13td's, 12int's" jay cutler? in his second year, jay cutler?
     
  8. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    Could it have been that Beck simply hasn't been picking up on his reads?
    That the coaches were again, seeing open recievers that beck wasn't, and all it took was a few plays to see him merely dumping the ball off instead?

    Perhaps when Cleo entered the game, he identified those open receivers, and by doing so, suddenly made it appear as if the playcalling had changed?

    Maybe Lemon aggressively pushed it downfield, and made the coverages react, whereby they backed off the LOS, and free'd up some time to better execute?

    Just some possibilities pondered, as I missed the game having had to work today, leaving my fishtank the sole benefactors of my Sunday Ticket, and who happen to be 100% in agreeance on remaining mums with the details.
     
  9. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I want to address one thing about this thread. That is the title. The title says "How to destroy a young QB." This is how you destroy a young QB. Upon the demands of everyone in south florida led by our crack team of reporters. Look at the dates on the blogs.....

    Greg Cote - http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/story/265028.html

    Armando - http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2007/10/time-to-play-john-beck-has-arrived.html

    Omar Kelly - http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2007/10/on-the-bright-s.html

    Ethan Skonick - http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_seasonticket/2007/10/play-john-beck.html


    Now look at the fans reactions and look at the date.

    The fans - http://www.topix.com/forum/source/south-florida-sun-sentinel/TADEV936JKMA10946


    Everyone was ignoring the fact that John Beck was running the scout team prior to Green's injury. Nobody cared about 0-16 back then. All we cared about was the future.

    Now everyone feels sorry for Jason Taylor. Now everyone wonders why veterans like Keith Traylor are unhappy. The veterans are angry because THE FANS got what they wanted.

    If you wanted Beck to start, you did not care about 0-16. If you cared about 0-16, you didn't want John Beck to start. I found only one south florida media member wise enough to suggest holding off on John Beck. Amazingly that was Greg Stoda. The rest of the clowns were leading the charge to start Beck and at least one (Cote) suggested that Huyzienga should step in and demand Beck's starting status.

    He was not ready.......
     
  10. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    It's kind of funny: You actually make a legitimate argument here and then you go ahead and deconstruct it by calling for Brohm/Ryan in the other thread. That's exactly why Beck shouldn't have started in the first place: there was preciously little to gain and much to lose. Both fans and media kept on reiterating that Beck had to start in order to see whether or not Beck's the answer. Both failed to see that there wasn't any answer to begin with. Not on a team that lost its best offensive player, traded away its #1 receiver, has practically no TE to speak of and was 0-9 to boot. People who expected Beck to succeed under these circumstances didn't look for a rookie quarterback; they looked for a miracle.

    So what did we gain from starting Beck? Absolutely zilch. Instead, we opened that nasty can of worms that has "we need to draft Ryan/Brohm/whoever" written on it. Every bit of momentum that the first young guy to take over this offense since Marino would have provided is gone - wasted in a season that was long down the drain. We could snatch Ryan only to find out that Beck eventually becomes a solid starter and we wasted a #1 pick to boot. Or we could grab a defensive player only to find out that we shattered the kid's confidence for absolutely nothing. The sad truth is that we don't know anything about Beck that we didn't know before. We put him in a position to fail and he failed.
     
  11. Jsbaugh

    Jsbaugh New Member

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    Good post Vendigo.

    Any rational dolfan can see that we havent really learned anything about Beck. We have seen good things from him like the first couple of games and then we have seen some rookie mistakes like the Jets game. As some of mentioned Beck was put in a position to fail. He runs the scout team for 9 games, practices with the first team for a week and then expected to come in a win games. The problem with that is they handed him the keys to a Yugo and expected him to win the Indy 500. With limited playing time and no talent around him what did you expect? Never mind the fact his first 2 starts where in horrible weather against two of the toughest defenses. Yesterdays benching was Cam in desperation mode, trying to find anything to save his ***. So he handed that keys back to Lemon, who already proved he cant win a race and the Beck trial was over.
    So here we are on Monday morning with all the arm chair QB's screaming for a 1st round QB. Claiming that Ryan/Brohm are hall of famers that will come in and turn this team around. Only problem with that is you still dont know what you have in Beck. You have a rookie QB with a good arm and makes quick decisions on a team that is in need of so many other fixes. If the Fins only issue was at QB then I would say go after one in the draft and let him and Beck fight it out in training camp. I can see 20 other positions need to be addresed before a QB. Any QB put in this system as it stands is not going to succeed.
     
  12. mbsinmisc

    mbsinmisc Season Ticket Holder

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    I think CC is coaching to save his job, he will fail.
     
  13. Jsbaugh

    Jsbaugh New Member

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    I agree with you. You can tell Cam is in desperation mode and trying to find something that works. The problem is there is no answer on offense right now and even if there was the Defense lets up to many points. Cam is screwed either way.
     
  14. sws84

    sws84 Season Ticket Holder

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    What I see is the players don't play the same way for Beck like they do for Lemon. So in a sense, your statement about Beck having an 0-16 trajectory rings true. The sad part is, it is the players and their attitudes that are deciding this, and not the ability or effort of Beck. Not to mention that Cam is very conservative with Beck at the helm. After Lemon had four fumbles and two interceptions yesterday, JT said after the game that, "Cleo did a good job today". Yeah, okay JT whatever you say. Just as long as you get your way.

    Steve :)
     
  15. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Very true. A lot of people are also overlooking the fact that Beck did in fact commit fewer turnovers in his first four starts than, for instance, Peyton Manning did - and Manning had Harrison to throw to and Glenn to protect his blind side. Claiming the Beck era over after a lousy four starts on a team without much talent is the epitome of short-sightedness.

    What I really don't get, however, is Cam's reasoning behind that Beck/Lemon thing. I understand that the fans craved for a silver lining and called for Beck but Cameron should have seen that the risk didn't outweight the possible reward. Save for Beck being the second coming of Dan Marino (which no one should have seriously expected), playing Beck in this mess of a season was bound to backfire on him and Mueller. He practically begged for all this "why didn't we draft Quinn?" and "we need Ryan!" stuff and needlessly put a lot of pressure on the kid's shoulders. That Beck's recent games have been eerily remniscent of Harrington or Carr isn't so much the kid's fault; it's the coach's for putting him into a position he had no business to be in yet.

    I'm not jumping on the fire Cam bandwaggon but his awkward handling of the QB situation suggests that he's at least concerned about losing his job and trying everything to get that one win that might just save his behind. With the problem being that saving your job isn't always synonymus with doing what's best for your team. If Cam's job is indeed in limbo, then it's high time for Huizange to step in and either endorse or fire the guy. A coach who isn't secure of his position is the worst possible coach to have.
     
  16. Dolphan5876

    Dolphan5876 New Member

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    "You have a rookie QB with a good arm and makes quick decisions"


    He does not make quick decisions by any stretch of the imagination. Most of his sacks was caused by him holding the ball too long
     
  17. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Beck was sacked 10 times in four starts. Manning was sacked 11 times in the same span, Brady 8 times. I guess they have a slow release as well? Or might it just be that his numbers are pretty normal for a rookie QB?
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah...when Beck takes a three step drop, and is swarmed by defenders, he's really at fault for the sack because he "held onto the ball too long." What games were you watching? In fact, in the first two games, I saw Beck throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack. Perhaps the sacks in the last two games were the result of Beck trying to make a play because he was feeling the heat of not having scored any offensive TD'S? It's disgusting to me to see Lemon get protection in the pocket, and play calling by Cameron, that Beck could only wish he got.
     
  19. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Active Member

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    Are you comparing the Rb position(which is widely considered the easist position to walk into and play well, as it relies heavily on instinct) to the QB position? This is amusing.
     
  20. Bonedoc7777

    Bonedoc7777 New Member

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    it takes time, we need to invest money in the offensive and defensive lines
     
  21. sws84

    sws84 Season Ticket Holder

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    That is my take as well, but only time will tell if the front office feels the same way. I have a sneaky suspicion that in order to sell tickets our coaches have been encouraged to field the best team they could without a major rebuilding effort. Unfortunately our poor drafts over the years have hamstrung our team to the point where a major rebuilding effort is unavoidable. Zack or JT, anyone? Make your best offer...


    Steve :)
     
  22. dolphins26

    dolphins26 New Member

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    why is everyone so damn doom and gloom? we suck this year but an nfl team can change fortune form year to year. if you guys were cowboys fans you would have wanted JJ fired after his first year, and if 49er fans bill walsh fired after his first 2 years!

    how good can a rookie QB be with WR's who cant get seperation and NO NFL CALIBER RB and a AVERAGE AT BEST O-Line? He looks for Ginn on every play b/c he is the only one who can get seperation. how can ANY SENSIBLE dolphin fan judge John Beck yet? its ridiculous. The dolphins are on their way, and STABILITY IS WHAT WE NEED! Cam hasn't made the greatest decisions but anyone who thinks they can judge him his first year is an idiot, and history proves that to be so....

    AND WE JUST MIGHT LAND MCFADDEN!

    im just saying im tired of hearing spoiled fans ***** and moan. why dont we just change coaches every year until we win a superbowl??
     

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