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Running Game Far Better With Grove

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rhody Phins Fan, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Rotoworld had this nice tidbit. Grove is a great center and if he could somehow make it through an entire season we could do some serious damage on the ground.
     
  2. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University

    And so goes the story of his career...:pity:

    Our OL when healthy is one of the best in the league IMO.
     
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  3. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'd rather have 10 games of a top center and 6 of an average or below average one than a full season of just an average center.
     
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  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University

    Very true.:up:
     
  5. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Jake Grove in the past 3 seasons has missed more games than
    the whole Jet offensive line has during the same period

    Jake Grove...17 games missed in 3 seasons

    D'brickshaw...0 games missed in 3 seasons
    Mangold........0 games missed in 3 seasons
    Faneca..........0 games missed in 3 seasons
    Moore...........0 games missed in 3 seasons
    Woody..........3 games missed in 3 seasons

    Grove...................... 17
    Jets entire offensive line 3

    Grove has played 1 full season out of 6
    and has missed 31 games which is injury prone

    There are centers that are just as good as Grove who don't miss 5-6 games a season...Hopefully he gets his act together
    i
     
  6. sergiomiguel2

    sergiomiguel2 New Member

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    Very well said, but is that a character issue? training issue? is he just an unhealthy guy...
    I mean he sprained his ankle, unless they aint telling us something that usually will not keep you out for 6 games if you take care of it right
     
  7. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    History is history and 31 games missed in 6 seasons is a consistent problem.
     
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  8. sergiomiguel2

    sergiomiguel2 New Member

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    Very true, but I'm willing to give him 1 more year with our training and medical staff before I completely write him off, sometimes it is the training staff, and this happened in basketball with the Phoenix suns revitalizing Grant Hill and Shaq, so if this year he doesn't come out on top, then I guess we really have to see what else we can do

    Justin Smiley is also a huge asterisk, but I love him as our Guard, when he is in there he is top 5 in the league
     
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  9. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    Not to discount Grove's ability, but I think the average is a little skewed for a couple of reasons. First, we didn't have Ronnie for those games. Having both Ronnie and Ricky is a definite boost to the running game. Second, we didn't have Ferguson or Crowder for many of those games either. That meant our already declining defense, particularly our run defense, was very poor. This caused us to go more to the pass than the run, which brought down our running game/average. All that said, I think he's a better center than Berger and Garner, but I wouldn't necessarily say 44-yds/game better.
     
  10. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    I think of equal importance is that we have an effective 2nd stringer in Joe Berger. He's shown he can step in and we barely miss a beat. To me that says a lot. There may be other Centers who are as good as Grove and don't miss as many games......but they aren't available as far as I know.
    So for now I'm fine with Grove starting and knowing Berger can fill in as needed.
     
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  11. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Week 8 Crowder was out and we held the Jets to 127 yards or 45 yards under the #1 rushing team in the NFL'S average...NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

    Week 9 Both Crowder and Ferguson were both out
    against New England and we held them to 109 yards rushing or 11 yards under average for the 12 th best rushing team in the NFL.STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

    WEEK 12 Ferguson out against Buffalo we allowed 129 yards rushing or 13 yards above what Buffalo averages
    13 yards does not translate to A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

    Week 13 Ferguson out against the Pats we allowed
    96 yards or 24 yards under the Pats average STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

    Week 14 Ferguson still out against Jacks we allowed 95 yards rushing or 32 yards less than Jacks average of 126.8 STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

    Week 15 Ferguson out against Tenn the second best rushing team in the NFL we allowed 128 yards rushing or 34 yards less than Tenn average of 162 yards per game STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

    Week 16 Ferguson out we allowed 126 yards rushing
    against Texas or 24 yards above texas's average yards rushing per game average...Still not what I would call VERY POOR RUN DEFENSE

    Week 17 Ferguson and Crowder out against Pitts we allowed 202 yards or 90 yards above average yards rushing per game for Pitts
    This game was bad but I believe it was more about our defense giving up as a whole than just a poor run defense

    We held the #1 rushing team in football to 45 yards under there average

    We held the #2 rushing team in football to 34 yards under there average

    We held the #10 rushing team in football to 32 yards under there average

    We held the #12 rushing team in football to 24 yards under there average

    One bad game against Pittsburgh when both Crowder and Ferguson were out and our season was done


    No way this is a poor team against the run
     
  12. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    as the Orca-5 go, so goes the season. Grove is a Beast.
     
  13. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    We started the season #1 against the run. We finished the season #18. And that's even with our pass defense falling to #24. But, to me, it's not so much how much you held a team under their average anyway. It's how well you do against them in total yardage. We didn't do that well, or not near well enough, and it got progressively worse as the season went on.

    But, that's not really my major point anyway. The point is that as the season went on (i.e., when Grove was injured) our defense began giving up too many points to where it forced us to abandon the running game much earlier than we would have liked. And because of this, our total running yardage per game suffered. And I'd say that this would be true regardless of whether Grove or Berger was at center.
     
  14. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    As much as I like our offensive line the Jets
    have ran for 632 more yards than us the past 2 seasons and there players don't get injured like ours.

    Grove,Smiley,and Thomas scare me!
     
  15. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Doesn't this usually happen when a team falls behind early in a game...they give up on the run and try to catch up through the pass...no revelation here

    and i STILL DISAGREE on saying that we had a POOR run defense
     
  16. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    You're absolutely right. There's no revelation here. It actually is quite simple. Now, consider that in context to the original post.

    The original post had Rotoworld claiming that the rush offense (in terms of yds/game) was much better under Grove. While this is a true statement, my point was that this had much to do with how our defense was playing (along with having both Ronnie and Ricky as I also pointed out). So, I wouldn't pin the difference of 44-yd/game solely on the presence (or absence) of Grove.
     
  17. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    OK. So, we are in good shape at NT and ILB. This is a relief to me.
     
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  18. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    I could care less about roto and anything else anyone has to say.

    I SAW the difference when Grove was in there. Anyone who did not, did not watch the games. JMO
     
  19. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    That's true. I think Grove is a better center. No question in my mind. Not sure if he's 44-yd/game better than Berger though as that's quite a difference.
     
  20. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    Hell, if we didn't get injured, there would be no discussion.

    Grove, Smiley, and Thomas scare me, as well as every DL in the game. Good point, although not intended. :)
     
  21. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    The Jet OL is an anomaly to say the least. To have an OL intact for an entire season is pretty special, much less 35 straight games. And they're outstanding to boot. I wouldn't use them as a barometer as much as the pinnacle.

    I don't think it's a question of "getting his act together". I don't know if you meant it this way, but to me that suggests he doesn't take care of his body. I haven't heard anything like that in the past. And I would hope this regime wouldn't knowingly sign a player with that type of professionalism (or lack thereof).

    Some guys are just injury prone. Some are unlucky. Some guys bodies just can't do it.

    As the stats have bore out the last few years, there aren't many centers as good as Grove. He is in the elite class. The problem is those others typically aren't available.
     
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  22. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    No need to ask Tim anything, when a player misses
    31 games in 6 seasons I would say it speaks volumes on it's own
     
  23. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    That was slick. :lol:

    I'd say he's injury prone, absolutely.

    But I wouldn't say he's a slacker. I think he's the same as Bob Sanders. Guys whose bodies just aren't predisposed to 16 NFL games.

    On the other end you have Marvin Harrison. Guy made no secret that he ran on junk food and sweets, yet never missed time until his knees finally gave out.
     
  24. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    When he is healthy he is one of the best
    but....

    How can a guy who is 6'4 and 300lbs+
    be so delicate???

    Hopefully he can play a full season with Smiley and put to rest the injury prone moniker
     
  25. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Isn't this a re-thread? I think in the later part of last year someone pointed this out with Grove.

    No doubt, Grove is really one heckuva center*.

    *when healthy
     
  26. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    I don't know that calling Grove delicate would be fair or accurate. He's getting hammered by other 300+ lb men. Sometimes more than one at a time.
     
  27. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Poor choice of words?
     
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  28. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    :lol: perhaps.
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The reason our yards per game rushing when Grove was out were so much lower is because Ronnie Brown also missed those games.
     
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  30. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Your whole line competes better if it is consistant. You will never have that which you need to fulfill your potental with players that can not be there when you need them. I'm not saying that Grove and Smiley aren't great players but we have spent alot of money on the two of them and imvho we are NOT getting our money's worth out of them. To see the difference between Grove and no Grove in yardage is even more telling that we are getting a bad deal. If the same difference was say between Long's side and Carey's side in the run game everyone here would be calling for Carey's head on a platter or Long a bust if it were his side!

    Yet Grove and Smiley get a pass, what to me is even worse is that the FO gets the same pass. When Parcells' first remark was, as he walked in the door, the injury report is way to thick and that will stop! So much for those words.

    Surely there is a center and a guard that can do the job we need done (as in a team effort) out there in the world somewhere. I would also hope that there is something written in their (Grove/Smiley) contracts which detracts from their pay if they miss games, knowing from the getgo that these two had/have injury issues.
     
  31. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    conditioning is the answer. injuries happen in the NFL. no question he is an elite center
     
  32. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Not really surprising. When healthy, Grove is arguably a top 3 center. Problem is he's never healthy.
     
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  33. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    problem is he was pushed to return before he healed properly while playing w/ a third rate offensive Raider line i.e. too much, too soon
     

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