We have two workhorses in Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown. We have a project in Lex Hilliard. I still don't know who the hell Kory Sheets is. Anyone interested in Sproles like I am? He's young, fast, short, and best of all...Cheap! The Chargers refused to give him I think 6 million this year. We could get him pretty cheap and he could be an impact player. We can't count on Ginn as a returner. Bess is too slow. He could be an effective Special Teams player and a great change of pace back. He won't get too tired because of the great RB's we already have. He's also a great Receiver. I just don't see downside in signing him.
I can't imagine a player with the home run capability that he has ending up cheap when all the bids come in. A lot of teams are going to be looking for the type of electricity he can bring to a game.
He's still worth it though. I remember last year when Leon Washington may have become a Free Agent many Phin fans felt comfortable paying the pricetag. Sproles is the returner we don't have and the burst we can use. I think someone with his possibilities has to get paid and would fit in well. I sure as hell don't want to see Cobbs returning kicks next year.
We have so many needs, spending that much on a RB doesn't seem like one of the smartest moves to me. JMVHO
I also would tend to think that he won't be cheap. And because of that I don't think we can afford to put out the kind of money it'll take to get him with the other more glaring holes we have to fill.
Read second post. Ginn had ONE good return game and was crap the rest of the year. Regardless of what you know...who the hell is Kory Sheets. Cobbs and Brown were out for a full season yet he couldn't make active. Kory Sperry got active more.
Ginn was 5th in kickoff return yards in the entire league. He had 4 returns of 40 or more yards. Sproles had 1 more long return than Ginn. Big flipping deal. Ginn is doing fine as a return man. Saying otherwise is dumb. Using Kory Sheets as a reason to sign Sproles is lame. Ronnie, Ricky, Cobbs, and Hilliard are all better than Sheets. Comparing Sproles to Sheets is like saying we should sign Karlos Dansby because he's better than Reggie Torbor. Sproles is gonna get a huge paycheck. Thinking we can sign great playmakers for very little money is extremely unrealistic.
To contribute more to the thread than Gish's temper... I would love to have Sproles...but the price tag will be very high. He will be highly coveted in the "new NFL". It does make me wonder what we could get for Ronnie though, but Im not on that bandwagon. A guy like Mike Bell intrests me...similar running style to Browns with a knack for the endzone. And obviously much cheaper insurance for RB who has a 72% chance of being out for the year again.
Fifth in return yards because of the Jets game. I'm saying with Injury prone runningbacks we need insurance. With two great backs out for the year and Sheets unable to get active I'd like more insurance. Who the **** cares, its not your money. Besides, i conceded the big paycheck in the earlier post.
Being 5th in the NFL in KR yards has what to do with anything? Nothing. Being 5th in the NFL in return yards simply means our defense sucked, and Ginn had more KR's. KR average is what matters, and Ginn was 13th in the NFL in that stat. Quite average. Face it, Ginn is living off of one game. Teams stacked the sidelines so Ginn couldn't go there and what happened? That's right, he managed to suck the rest of the year. Ginn is an average Kick returner who will never be more than average because he's too much of a puss to go up the middle every once in a while. Good riddance.
By that logic then, Sproles is an average kick returner than too. While Ginn was 13th, Sproles was 18th in terms of average. He was only ahead of Ginn on kickoff return yards because he had two more returns than Ginn.
Well for one, I don't think he is coming in that cheap. He isn't going to get the 6 million he was getting last year but he will still probably command around 4 million or so. Sproles wasn't better than Ginn last year on kick returns and wasn't that great on punt returns. You also have to consider who loses their roster spot to him because I don't think we carry 5 RB's. Hilliard and Cobbs are both special teams stalwarts and Ricky and Ronnie aren't going anywhere.
Four million for a homerun hitter. I'm loose with other people's money so I don't mind. Sproles is more of an all around player than Ginn. Using stoichiometry, Sproles is a better RB than Ginn is WR. The 5 RB situation is pretty hard to deal with. I'm looking at it from a production perspective. Sproles can get more production on returns and rushing/receiving then Hilliard can get in rushing/special teams tackling. I'm crazy so I'd cut Sheets, deactivate Hilliard to keep him fresh and as insurance in the event Ronnie or Cobbs goes down during the season. Then we can bring Hilliard in to take back special teams and share the rushing load with either Ronnie/Ricky/Sproles or Ricky/Cobbs/Sproles. Then again I'm only majoring in economics so until I have a degree I'm still learning.
I love Darren Sproles, going back to when he played at K-State and I got to watch him in person. The knock on Sproles is the same as any small stature back, be it Warrick Dunn or Barry Sanders. He won't be able to carry the load. That's probably a fair criticism, really, as Sproles can't move a pile on 3rd down and is much better outside the tackles in space. As such, he's been used perfectly during his tenure for the Chargers. He's a good fit for spread offenses that can put him out in space and create mismatches. My guesses for possible landing spots would be the Patriots, Denver, maybe even Dallas. They've got the type of offense that would allow him to operate in space. I just don't see it here. Both of our current backs (Ricky and Ronnie) have very good hands, but we don't take advantage of that now. It wouldn't make sense to sign Sproles and then not use him in the best way.
How bout you stop being <self censor>, and just admit that Ginn is a better return man than you give him credit for. He was 5th in the league in return yards. You cant take out one game. And its not like someone else mentioned, that he had more attempts. He had less attempts than everyone ahead of him, INCLUDING SPROLES. Sproles only had 1 more return longer than 40 yards than Ginn. Using Sproles KR abilities as an excuse to sign him is extremely weak. If Sproles is signed by anyone for $4million, I'll eat my keyboard. And we have many more pressing needs than creating unnecessary depth at RB.
My point is not Sproles is a better returner. He's a better player. Sproles can give a change of pace in the running game as well as a receiving back. No need for self censors here. You keep talking about returns as if that's all Sproles can do. General Managers are not stupid. Thomas Jones even though he's old ran for 1400 yards and I think 14 TD's and can't get 5 million a year. Sproles got cut because he wasn't seen as being worth 6 million. GM's have the upper hand with Sproles. They will tell his agents he isn't worth 6 million. They will compare his stats to Thomas Jones and say he isn't worth 5 million. They will ram him hard and unless these GM's aren't worth their salt, he will max out at around 4-5 million a year. Teams have the leverage. They may use incentives to liven up the deal but they will squeeze him. If he makes more than 5 million a year I'll eat your keyboard. Post arrangements will be discussed later.
What does Thomas Jones have to do with this? This is an uncapped year, and Sproles is the top RB available.
It's how they value talent. It's simple economics. The reason why Franchise tags cost so much is because you're saying they're worth about the same as the 5 highest paid in their position. Contract negotiations look at guys around the league doing similar things and then say well this better player is making X you can't make what he's making. The player will say worse player is making Y so I have to make more than that. Salary Z is then decided. Thomas Jones is now a free agent and Jets refused paying him 5 million. He's not better than Thomas Jones.
So 1,402 yds 14 TD's in a crowded backfield is worse than 343 yds 3 TD's running against LT? Enjoy this comment. I think you've proven there's no need to continue this conversation.
Well lets take out Sproles two biggest returns and see what his average is. Fact of the matter is Ginn did something Sproles couldn't last year and that was take back two kicks for TD's.
It's not only about returns. Darren Sproles was a better Wide Receiver last year than Ted Ginn Jr. Sproles had 497 yds and 4 TD's while Ginn had 454 and 1TD. My point is and always has been, Sproles is a great all around player.
Yea but what is the point of paying that kind of salary for a change of pace back that so far in a 5 year career has 199 attempts for 887 yards which is a 4.5 average with a long run of 37 in his career. Receiving wise he has 87 career catches for 880 yards with a 10.1 ypc and a long of 81. He has 20 total TD's between offense and special teams. You also have to look at the offense and the players he played with. Jackson, Floyd and Gates opened up a lot of space for him to operate underneath. He isn't going to have that kind of luxury here. You could argue his special teams abilities but Ive already shown that he wasn't better than Ginn and Davone Bess had a better average as punt returner, not by much, but people were complaining about his deficiencies as a punt returner. Sproles to me just doesn't have a place in this offense right now, not for the kind of money he wants. You also have to wonder why San Diego didn't make some attempt to keep him considering how badly they need a running back.
There's no need to wonder, you just pointed out his stats. He's not an every down RB. If you watched during the season, you would have seen Norv Turner unwilling to stop giving it to LT. When you're playing with Gates, Floyd, Tomlinson, Jackson etc, it's hard to get stats. He was used in certain situations.
Well if he isn't an every down running back, there is no point in paying him the type of money he wants. 6 million a year for a situational player is illogical. Your paying Ronnie that and he is your starter. Change of pace backs can be found in the draft for a fraction of what Sproles wants.
Yea but your saying Sproles is going to come here and be a better return man than Ginn. Simply not true. He wouldn't be better than Ginn or Bess based off last year. As far as receiving goes, Sproles also had 7 more catches than Ginn as well, there for more yards. His average ypc was also less than Ginn's by almost a full yard. You also have to take into account that Sproles played on a much better offense with better talent surrounding him. You also have to factor in the contract. Sproles wants more than Ted Ginn is making now for production that isn't that much better than Ginn's.
Sproles being on a good team killed production. Of course Ginn will have a higher YPC, he's a WR...of all the bonehead things you could say. That better offense is what killed his production, Philip Rivers had an MVP type season throwing that ball. Chargers didn't like running and when they did it was to LT. Sproles shouldn't be able to make 6 million because surprise surprise, he got cut because he isn't worth 6 million. Its not about production, Sproles is better than Ginn. Ginn's numbers are bad because he's a bad receiver. Sproles numbers are bad because he was playing with a Pro-Bowl TE and WR, a former All-Pro RB, Malcolm Floyd, All-Pro QB. With such a good receiving core, why run the ball? Our team is predicated on the run and short pass. Sproles at this juncture brings more to the offense than Ginn. He is a great player who I'd be willing to spend the money on. Either way, none of us are GM's we won't convince the next person otherwise so why bother?
Sproles is a good receiving back but he isn't a good runner. There is a reason they kept giving the ball to LT.
Well if its not about production, than how do you base Sproles being better than Ginn? It isn't an apples to apples comparison but Sproles hasn't been appreciably better than Ginn. If you look at their first three years, Sproles has one more total TD than Ginn, about 80 catches less than Ginn, and they had the same amount of special teams TD's. So again, tell me how Sproles is better than Ginn. You also have to consider that he would probably be at best the 3rd running back on the depth chart seeing very limited touches. He doesn't run the ball all that well and the offense doesnt really throw to the running back that often. So where does Sproles fit in? He isn't better than anyone we have on the roster as far returns goes, I've already shown that. So 4 million+ for a guy who isn't that much better, if any better at all, than what we have already. Doesn't make much sense.
