My reaction was pure fury. I thought Cam made the wrong decision. I was so happy when everyone passed on him, because I said to my Dad, "We've got him! A franchise QB again!" And then, Cam and Mueller selected Ginn. They were booed for it. Since then, I believe this team has only gone downhill. The selection of Ginn over Brady Quinn is a microcosm of this season. One bad decision after another, one missed chance compounding on the last. I can't imagine where we'd be with another coach and GM calling the shots. I very much doubt 0-16
I guess I'm in the minority but I understood the move. I tried to like Brady Quinn but the more I looked at tapes I had approaching the draft, the guy simply wasn't very accurate. Even his TD passes as a junior were not in the ideal place, for the most part. But guys like Samardzija bailed him out. One glaring similar example was Andre Ware, and we know how that worked out. I used to bet on Houston in that era and Ware was laughably inaccurate. But he didn't have to be accurate, since that offense terrorized the vast majority of opponents and the receivers could wait for the balls like they were punts. I'll never understand how Ware won the Heisman or was drafted early. Ginn has tremendous ability, and that will eventually trump the doubters. I admit I was concerned about his lack of speed and explosiveness during August and early in the season, but now the burst is back. I thought '07 was our most interesting and, in most cases, sensible draft in years. I wasn't thrilled with Mauia that high but otherwise I didn't quarrel with too much.
PFFFT. The jury is still very much out on how good or bad a decision that was. Regardless, this draft has nothing to do with "the beginning of the end". The damage was done long before people.
The biggest reason why we're 0-13 is because the defence won't (NB not can't) stop the run and on the odd time that an opposing offence makes a few mistakes and faces third and long we fall over ourselves allow them to convert. Also remember even if we had drafted Brady Quinn that he would not have started until week 12 at the earliest (he wouldn't have beaten out Trent Green as starter and Cleo would have got the first few starts followin Tren't injury). We could have drafted Jerry Rice and Dan Marino and we'd be 2-11 at best.
Personally I was thrilled when we passed over Brady Quinn. One of the most overrrated prospects I have ever seen. Another Matt Leinart as far as I am concerned. Must admit Ted Ginn wasnt my choice but we needed deep speed and he provides it. He might turn out alright. I think he's come along nicely
Actually.....Im very happy with the Ginn pick. Couple of return TD's not called back....youd be singing a different story. Hes also our best reciever, BY FAR.
yes, that is true. Ginn is our best receiver. I must say though on an 0-13 team, our best WR doesnt mean much, especially when neither of our receivers is anywahere near cracking 1000 and i dont know but I am pretty sure none of them are close to 50 catches (maybe booker, but who knows). But that is besides the point, Ginn is a good player, not an amazing force to be reckoned with, but a fine player and I really like him... Quinn is a QB, and has the chance of being that amazing force... The terry Shea thing is the only part of the Quinn evaluation that makes me feel that maybe... just maybe this coaching staff had a reason not to draft him, but then again this coaching staff has proven to be so inept... that I am not sure I trust them on that. Quinn leaves Notre Dame and we say good bye to Weiss' Offensive genius, yet we are to believe that he was a product of the system?
This thread sux . . . get over Quinn . . . its one of the FEW decisions Cam got right . . . he showed he had BALLS and that is why I was excited to see Cam in action this year. When Cam has his hand forced (starting Beck over Cleo, when Cam knew Beck wasn't ready and that Cleo was his best option to win) . . . that is what pisses me off about him. The man did NOT like Quinn, and felt he wasn't very accurate . . . he made a decision, knowing the criticism to follow. Ginn has really come along nicely. He has proven that he has terrific hands, catches almost anything that comes his way, and his route running ability is better than advertised. Once he gets a step, he can outrun anybody, and if he has room . . he can run right past you. It is going to be very exciting to see the strides that he makes from his rookie year to his second year. If he can get a consistent QB (which goes along with a consistent running game and a consistent OLine) . . . I think Ginn will end up being a very special player for us . . . but he needs another halfway decent WR who can help him out. Right now we have a bunch of WR's who do nothing except drop passes. Some may have thought he would fair better in the return game . . . but he had 2 of them called back (fluke calls) and with this special teams unit . . . that is amazing in itself.
So you would trade the player who was leading the league in rushing before the injury. Your also hoping that you find a trading partners given the current injury. And again the Quinn argument? Someone who hasnt thrown a pass all season. Ginn has been pretty good this year. Great argument.
People (media included) need to get over the Quinn/Ginn saga. Quinn hasn't even thrown a pass in the NFL. I just wonder how these "experts" would be talking if 2 of Ginn's runbacks weren't called back and if someone can just hit him in stride when he is 5 yards beyond the defense.
Ginn over Quinn, the beginning of the end? Hmm, someone hyperbole key is stuck in the "on" position. Ginn just caught a 50 yd bomb against the Bills, he is the only player on our roster who can do that, he forced the Bills to squib kick when the game was in doubt. Ted Ginn Jr. is out "best' offensive player, meaning the only one who can change a game, he averages 13 yds per catch, and he is in the top part of the league in kick return yardage. On our comatose team, Ted Ginn is the one bright light.
That may even be true but I still agree with the initial poster that the Ginn over Quinn was a microcosm of the whole season. The selection of a WR, maybe even a good one, was forced by the free-agency blunder of letting Wes Welker escape to NE. I can hear everyone already, Wes wouldn't have had the same kind of season here that he's having in NE. Sure, but he was playing 3 positions (3rd Wr, kr, pr) and quite effectively, too. Keeping him would have meant remove WR from the phins most pressing needs. That means that, with the 9 pick they could have taken Quinn, yes, or Amobi Okoye. A serviceable KR could have had later in the draft (example: Steve breaston, aundre allison) or even undrafted (josh Cribbs). Now, who would you like to have now? Ginn, Beck and Soliai or Quinn, Sidney Rice (for example) and Welker? Or even Okoye, Beck and Welker? The main fact is, yes, the draft is a lottery but this staff chose to forego conventional wisdom (ie: takde the best qb available when you had a void at the position) and replaced with creative thinking (create the need for a WR and select him high). Now, nothing wrong with it but, when it fails so miserably, there must be some accountability. Therefore, both Cam AND Randy will have to go.
I shut off the draft. I don't do that. I was so mad. Hey, if Ginn turns out to be great, then, I'll love the pick! Right now....Not so much. I was a big one for keeping Cameron, and, now that being punked arises, I'm more on the bandwaggon of fireing a coach that can't win. The deck was stacked agasint him, but, he's clearly not done a good job. You can't keep a coach that can't win. I mean...You just can't.
Some fans just don't get it. I totally agree that when we passed on Quinn that was the biggest mistake since the Texans passed on Reggie Bush. Thats why I think Mueller is highly over rated as a GM. This years draft class is clear proof of that. If we don't pick the right quarterback in next years draft it is going to set this team back even longer!
Indeed, some fans don't get it. The only player who has seriously disappointed from the draft is Paul Solai, and he was highly rated going into the draft. We have a center for the next 10 years, we have our game breaking wr for the next 6, LBook is finally playing and doing well. We will see about the Qb, Beck has struggled, but most rook Qb's struggle. On the draft I'd give Mueller an B+, if Mormino had panned out that would move to an A-.
"Quinn that was the biggest mistake since the Texans passed on Reggie Bush." That would be the same Bush that really hasnt done much to show if he is a returner, reciever, runner and Mario Williams who is 13 games into a 9.5 sack season and alongside Amobi Okoye is one of the best young DLines in the league. As for this years draft class, last time I looked we had a rookie starting centre, fullback, wide reciever, quaterback, punter along side Morimo that looks a decent pick, Booker who is showing signs of life and 2 late round LB's hanigng around. That seems like a decent draft to me. Remind me what Quinn has done again?
I believe Mormino being put on IR had more to do with the fact he needed to get stronger than anything, his injury wasn't that severe. I look for Mormino to make an impact next year, but I could be wrong.
I agree with most of your quotes padre and I like you also believe McFadden is a must unless we trade down for extra first rd picks... McFadden will keep our D off the field..., Ronnie was doing fine until the freak accident but "now" what "wait"... I don't think so..., yake the pressure off ginn and beck and insert a fresh set of legs
Next year we have 3 young lineman who either step up or get shown the door. Alabi, Toledo, Mormino. I liked Mormino the best out of those three. If we also looked at "Best job scrounging in the Scrap Heap" Meuller would also have to recieve some consideration for doing the best job at that for us. Samkon Gado? Where did he scrounge that man up from? Yet he scored 2 td's after 2 deep passes one to Ginn, yet some think Ginn is not very good? Truth be told Gridiron, I am also starting to think that keeping Cleo Lemon is not a bad move, he knows our system, has the most game experience at QB and we will be down to John Beck only next season.
I can agree with all of that. I believe Toledo and Alabi will be gone because they've been injury prone all the time, especially Toledo. Mormino will probably return because he was drafted by Cameron and Mueller (if Cameron returns, which I support him fully, but who knows how things will roll out). Gado played very hard and I wouldn't mind him coming back next year, he runs hard in between the tackles and I have a feeling Jesse Chatman might be going elsewhere next year. As for Cleo Lemon, I wouldn't mind bringing him back because there really isn't anyone better at the QB that's available as a FA. Sure you got Grossman and what not, but I'd take Lemon over him in a heartbeat. Might as well let Beck and Lemon compete next year, because if Beck can't beat him out, does he really deserve to start?
That and it seems to me that our Franchise is on the Brink Rev Kev, we need to stop that slide. If we keep #1 draft McFadden, if we can trade out and trade JT, we can reman the defense and see if we can help the offense. A trade out with dallas, and our 32nd pick, and a tenative #1 or #2 for JT, we would have 6 or 7 picks in the top 100, with 22 "starters" that would be 1/3 of them coming from the top 100 players in the draft. I like those numbers.
Where would Chatman go? Who would want him besides us? The thing about Lemon is he knows our system, if we can sign him at a good price it would be well worth the effort to keep him here. In the end, you are right, looking at the FA QB's available, not a single one of them would be worth a large contract, Pennington would be a good pick up, but he more then likely wants to start again. So Lemon vs Pennington? Chad has all of those injury problems, we will more then likely rebuild the oline again, with new guards, so is it worth taking a chance on a Pennington over Lemon?
the Texans analogy again from you- come on the Texans won that one hands down bush is a situational player. The Texans got a every down player who started from day one- and has shown a tendency to dominate in some games. Bush has a couple of good plays and has done not done anything of significance with McAllister out.
This thread should be locked. If someone actually thinks Quinn would make a difference on this horrible team right now, they should be shot.
I think Cameron's response about Ginn's family was even more of an indictation!! I think Ginn has the potential to be a good player, but I still feel we could've gotten him in a later round and used our first pick more wisely. Every coach is entitled to the benefit of the doubt, but every once in awhile Cam says, or does something completely asinine, and you can't help but scratch your head!!
I didn't mind so much not drafting Quinn---he was a big risk, no doubt about it. BUT I thought drafting Ginn that high was idiotic. I wanted to take a defensive player if we didn't take Quinn. And now I REALLY wish we had...we need LBs, DTs, DEs and DBs.
First of all, Brady Quinn hasn't thrown a pass yet. And he tried to hold out, despite the fact he wasn't a top ten pick. Second of all, Reggie Bush hasn't done jack. This was the same guys that people claimed would be better than Ronnie Brown. Year 2007, Brown, while injured, still has more yards than bush and more yards per carry. Texans, on the other hand, only selected a man who now has 9.5 sacks, 46 tackles, and two forced fumbles. Oh, and Ron Dayne is having a better season as a running back than Bush.