Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

Uhm....I think you guys are getting the term "elevated" confused with "losing to." People are elevated all the time even if they lose (or win). Hell, Austin became the mega star he was based on the iconic image of him passing out in the Sharpshooter. Perfect example of being elevated by someone even though you lost.

Mick Foley even credits Shawn Michaels with giving him his greatest match. I also tend to think that HBK elevated Razor Ramon to the level of a main event player. If it wasn't for those ladder matches with HBK, you could argue that Razor never goes on to collect big time in WCW.

For my money, HBK is repsonsible for Kevin Nash becoming a star, Sid having his title reigns and guys like HHH, Razor Ramon and a few others becoming who they've become in the industry. HHH owes his entire career to Michaels including him in the Clique and bringing him along for the ride that was the original DX. Another form of elevating (through association).

As for Flair, I give him full credit for Sting and, in my opinion, that is his greatest opponent/achievement. But you also have to remember that while HBK had a ton of influence in the WWE, he never held the book like Flair did. The reason Flair became famous was because he broke Harley Race's career world title reigns (I believe Race had seven), a bunch of those were of a result of Flair dropping and re-gaining the title on his own doing. Essentially, he created himself into the iconic star he is today.

That isn't to say he didn't have talent and didn't bring people along for the ride (Arn Anderson owes his almost iconic status to being friends with Flair, for example). But to say that HBK never elevated anyone is almost criminal. The guy gave many people their greatest match ever.

And for me, I feel that his promo work gets better everytime out. The fact that he can go from being a comedic sidekick, to an intense babyface to a dastardly heel from week to week and bring the audience along is incredible.

Flair, for all the great work he did, is now in that Christopher Walken territory. Walken, played such a convincing psycho and villain for so long, that everyone pretty much started to appreciate it to a point where its a parody. Now all Flair has to do is sweat through his clothes, say "woooooo" a bunch and give some manic bouncing around the ring promo and he is done. Cookie cutter.

And HBK's matches are completely different. Ye,s he has signature moves (the nip up is one of them) but he bumped differently for everyone. The bumps he took for Vader differ from the bumps he took for Mysterio, etc. Basically, he rolled with the punches ot make sure their offense got over as best it could.

Flair takes the same bumps, begs off the same way and hits the same boring spots almost in order for the past 15-20 years, if not longer. And Bret Hart's offense was so predictible that when it was described in dirtsheets, in locker rooms amongst wrestlers and elsewhere, it was pretty much called "the five moves of doom."

Same sequence, every time. Yes, Bret was a great worker, but his formula for success never changed and never really was altered, much like Flair's. Which is why I always thought it was funny when those two would jaw at each other about the other being boring and cookie cutter. Mainly because no one would know better than the other.

 

But it is all subjective and open to debate. I would maintain that Kurt Angle is in my top five wrestlers of all time. Mainly for a lot of the same reasons I had for HBK. He is just one of the best all around performers/wrestlers of all time.

Oh, and anyone who holds HBK's drug use against him while not recognizing that Flair has been a trainwreck of booze, pills and uppers/downers for decades, is fooling themselves.

 

Actually I'm going to have to disagree with you in terms of who you think Michaels elevated.

Foley got over because of his series of matches with The Undertaker, more specifically because he was thrown off of the HiTC, which was when fans really started to open up to him. While his match with HBK was great, it's pretty much forgotten among the common fans because it was at a random IYH and in fact after that match Foley's WWF career hit a rut until they repackaged him as Dude Love.

I disagree with Ramon, Razor was already super over before that ladder match and HBK really stole that show. Your example with Stone Cold losing at WM13 is a mirror example with HBK and this match since all of the high lights were of him jumping off the ladder, this match really made the career of HBK. In fact it was a big reason why HBK didn't jump directly to WCW after this match. Ramon was never looked at as a main eventer because of that match.

While I think HBK helped Diesel, the Rumble match in 1994 turned Diesel into a monster and a IWC darling and saved him from getting fired. HBK was pretty much Diesel's lackey until he started super kicking Diesel leading to his official face turn but Diesel was already over with the crowd by then. Again I'll argue that the WM11 match HBK again stole the show and got face pops during that match, which lead to his mega push.

And Sid was a bad example to use. Big deal HBK lost to Sid, Sid nearly killed the company for good while he was champion, he didn't help nor hurt Sid at all. It really made zero difference there.

While I agree HBK helped Triple H in the early stages of his career when he first entered the WWF by letting him hang out with the Kilq, both Chyna and Mick Foley absolutely made Triple H into a star. With Chyna, Triple H finally got actual heat in his matches and with Foley it really turned Triple H from a mid carder to a main event star. HBK helped Triple H get his foot in the door but without Foley, he'd never be anything. Also let's not forgot because of Michaels, Triple H was depushed for the MSG incident and nearly got fired over it.

I absolutely agree about Kurt Angle.

I'm not looking passed Flair's usage but there had been times where HBK couldn't even compete and the shows had to be rebooked due to his problems. Or if he did wrestle, the match was a train wreck and it was obvious he was in no condition to wrestle. Also HBK's attitude got in the way with some of his matches, especially in 1996 you can see him yelling at wrestlers such as Vader and the Bulldog doing PPV matches because of a botched move. I don't remember there every being a time where Flair was too drunk or high that he couldn't wrestler or cut a promo or him yelling at an opponent mid match like HBK had done. Again with the whole MSG incident and HBK being really unprofessional there is another red flag.

Also while HBK was never the official booker in the WWF, let's not kid ourselves, he had tons of backstage power, especially getting his friends in better positions in the company while depushing guys the Kliq didn't really like.

 

Since we're naming Top Five....

The Rock is in my top five. He had everything. Talented in the ring, talent on the mic/promos, knew how to play a great face or heel.... plus he is willing to sell anyone's offense.

 

including the Hurricane!

my top 5 are

HBK
Kurt Angle
Taker
The Rock
Stone Cold

also ill add a 6th in Eddie Guerrero. He was a hell of a competitor and had amazing mic skills!

 

My top 6 (since I can't narrow it down to just 5):
Shawn Michaels
Ric Flair
Kurt Angle
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Rock
Chris Jericho

 

what?

 

what?

 

my favorites are
1. foley
2. jericho
3. austin
4. the rock

 

Hogan
Rock
Austin
Undertaker
Batista

 

im also a pretty big cena fan.












dont tell sam he'll have me kicked out of the totally awesome, spectacular saturday morning wrestling club.

 

I can't do a Top 5 either ... but here's my favorites.

- Hulk Hogan
- Stone Cold Steve Austin
- Macho Man Randy Savage (Shame on you all for not mentioning one of the greatest workers and promos of all time. His run in the 80s was fantastic)
- Ric Flair
- The Rock
- HBK

Honorable Mention would go to Hart, Jericho, Angle, Styles, and Joe.

Obviously Voldemort used to be up there for me, but it's hard to separate fact from fiction on that one. I also quite like Edge, but he's not at the level of the other guys I have listed yet.

I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Sting, or the Ultimate Warrior.

I used to like Foley, but I feel like he's become a shadow of himself. It's also hard to watch a Foley match after it's happened. I appreciate his work for the "car wreck" aspect, but I like watching these other guys a bit more.

I will say I watched the John Cena DVD the other day, and found myself liking him more after I watched it than before. His "5 Questions with the Champ" stuff that was filmed for WWE.com is absolute gold. I'll take Cena over either Orton or Batista.

 

oops put guerrero at 5 for me........

 

Yeh....he's one of the best ever for sure.

 

Ugh a top 5 is ****ing impossible. I like different wrestlers for different reasons throughout their careers. Growing up, I was a huge Hulk Hogan mark and hated people like Mr. Perfect and Rick Rude. But as I broke into the business, my appreciation for those two I named grew TREMENDOUSLY. I may be able to do a top ten that wouldn't be in any particular order.

But first, in other news: I haven't mentioned it yet, but I was interviewed recently for some local college newspapers about my time in the wrestling buisness. I haven't seen the article yet, but I was told when it was written in Word, that is was ten pages before edit, so it appears like it might be a decent sized piece. Okay on to the list:

1. HBK (duh)

2. Kurt Angle (the only reason he won't be considered the greatest of all time is due to joining the industry so late)

3. Mick Foley (dead ringer for my dad...and he has done so much with so little, it really is quite remarkable what he has put himself through. From an entertainment standpoint, he was amazing)

4. Randy Savage (he was probably the model for which all modern wrestlers fashioned themselves after. He could do just about everything well to great. Only politics kept him from being a bigger star than he already is/was).

5. Chris Jericho (another all around package. I've never met him, but he seems like sort of a douche, but his talent inside the ring and his ability to overcome certain stigmas about himself is to be admired)

6. Raven (probably a shock, but I found this character to be so deep and layered throughout its tenure. His mind for this business is probably the most creative one for a wrestler ever, and before he drugged himself into the fat slob he is today, he was a stud in the ring. I have followed his career from the GWF days as Scotty the Body, through his light heavyweight championship days in WCW to Johnny Polo in WWF and beyond)

7. Brian Pillman (another surprise I am sure, but the man was INSANELY talented. Think about it, the guy played the loose cannon character so well that they actually FIRED him because of it. Its too bad that he broke his ankle because had he been healthy during his WWE run...and not got addicted to HGH/Steroids/Pain killers as a result, he would probably have been a multi time champion. He was THAT good. One of my favorite promo guys ever).

8. Ric Flair (One of the most influential wrestlers of all time. Great technician in the ring and obviously, a legend)

9. Eddy Guerrero/Chris Benoit (I can't choose between the two and both were simply amazing in the ring. Obviously their lives were cut short under different circumstances, but both could go in any style and I always looked forward to seeing them compete).

10. Booker T (probably another surprise, but another guy I have followed since GWF when he was part of the Ebony Experience with his brother. For his size, he was so agile and able to do just about anything. Brawling, technically, aerial and on the mic, he was a complete package.

Honorable mentions: Austin, Rock, Christian, Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts (rivals Raven for psychology champ), Scott Hall (he was awesome in his prime), Owen Hart, Bret Hart

With the exception of HBK, Booker T, Kurt Angle and Randy Savage, I find it interesting that the rest all spent a lot of time wrestling throughout the world and being talented in just about every major style there is.

And if you asked me tomorrow...I am sure that list would change. Good question/topic.

 

I don't mind Cena, he's not my favorite wrestler by any means but the guy always gives it his all and seems to really like what he does.

I can't believe I forgot Savage. There's no defense for that. I was a huge Warrior fan when I was growing up and appreciate his marketing mind but as I got older I tend to like the better workers.

 

Well, my Top Ten in no particular order (with The Rock being the exception to that)....

1. The Rock (for reasons I stated earlier. He was just the consumate professional).

2. The Undertaker (I don't care what other people say, his American B.A. phase was awesome).

3. Rob Van Dam (Because he was legitemately The Whole F'n Show)

4. Rey Misterio, Jr. (He was the first high flyer I cheered for)

5. Kurt Angle (when WWE made him a serious character).

6. Diamond Dallas Page (He made a neckbreaker into one of the most devastating finishers of all time).

7. Tazz

8. BxB Hulk (Youtube him)

9. Shawn Michaels

10. Booker T.

Honorable mention goes to Hulk Hogan (in Japan)

 

Hey when you get that article, please post it here if you don't mind I'd love to read it.

I'm also a huge Raven fan, he'd probably be in my top 10 if I didn't stop at 6. I always loved his character and hated how both WCW and the WWE pissed it away. I truly feel that he could have been a better star if he was ever given the chance. Not only was he an underrated wrestler but had a great wrestling mind.

I loved Pillman too, it's too bad he was a shell of his former self after the car crash. Imagine a healthy Pillman and healthy Austin feuding with each other in the WWF? Pillman could have definitely been a bigger star and almost on Austin's level if he was ever healthy. His stuff with Austin as the Hollywood Blondes was just fantastic. Too bad Flair had to cut their legs out from underneath them and kill the team.

I loved GWF too, I wish ESPN would replay them on their classical channel. I remember seeing guys like Booker T, Stevie Ray, X-Pac, Bagwell, Patriot, and even Raven. I just looked up GWF on wikipedia and was really surprised at just how many guys wrestled their before they went to the WWF/WCW.

 

Ok we all shared our favorite wrestlers so why not switch gears to our most hated wrestlers. Guys that no matter if they were a face or heel you just couldn't stand for whatever reason. Here's a few of mine:

1. Hardcore Holly (never liked him from day one when he was Sparky Plugg and never understood why the WWF kept pushing him, plus he always seemed like a jerk and was known for not being the nicest guy to rookies as seen on Tough Enough)

2. Billy Gunn (another guy that kept getting pushed for no reason except he had nice hair and a good look but he had no in ring talent or personality)

3. Road Dogg/New Age Outlaws (I already mentioned Gunn above but Road Dogg was another guy I just never understood why fans liked so much and why he kept getting pushes, I guess was just sick of the NAO and never really thought they were a good tag team because they didn't follow my personal 2 main rules of having a good tag team which is dressing similar to each other and having a finish move that you need both partners to do- heck the NAO never did any double team moves as it was)

4. X-Pac (2 words: X-Pac Heat. While I did appreciate his early work in the GWF and WWF, between injuries and hanging out with the Kliq, he stopped being good in the ring, got lazy and got an attitude yet the WWE kept pushing and pushing the guy)

5. Chyna (nothing bugged me more than seeing her win the IC title and always fighting the guys and winning almost all the time)

6. Hacksaw Jim Duggan (always thought he was stupid)

7. Bushwhackers (I never liked them because they were simply horrible, especially when the WWF was running out tag teams like the Harts, Bulldogs, Rockers, Brain Busters, Strike Force, Demolition and Rougoues at the time)

8. Rikishi (just never cared for the guy even when he was red hot in 2000)

9. Mark Henry (complete waste of a roster spot, the guy can't work, never got over and never did anything, yet he's been around since 1996, go figure)

10. Kane (I just never liked the character, I appreciate that he was one of the better big men in the business I just never remember myself rooting for him at all nor care about him. Plus I always thought his bright red wrestling attire was dumb especially being the wrestler's brother he should have been given something black and similiar to Mankind or even the Abyss)

 

Flair absolutely made Sting huge with their matches. no question. i only left Sting off the list of guys Flair "made" (Morton, Hawk, Luger, etc.) because i was giving examples of guys who would never be over as World Title contenders were it not for Flair.

i know Flair had his issues with booze, but had not heard of the pills. not saying it isn't true, but i don't recall it ever effecting him in-ring or him missing dates etc.

HBK and HHH were both on the booking committee before, during, and after the Montreal Screwjob, and used it to elevate themselves before Hall and Nash left, and obviously afterward.

 

another point on WWE champs from the 70's-80's-90's compared to NWA champs like Harley Race and Flair...

WWF champs were always company champions. by that i mean they wrestled the same couple guys for weeks or months on end and had the same match night after night, and had the chance to work out matches with his opponents that they could tweak and make better the more they wrestled them.

before Vince gobbled up everything, NWA champs like Race and Flair often traveled from territory to territory, wrestling whoever the territory's top guy was. they would come into town, do a weekend or a couple weeks with that promotion, and leave, and be expected to put on the best match on the card, often with bums. and make everybody there believe "their" guy was sooooo close to winning the NWA HWT title.

and there were different NWA promotions in Texas, Florida, Portland, Stampede in Canada, Alabama, Georgia, Mid-Atlantic, Kansas City, and Memphis back then. plus they would travel to Japan and Puerto Rico, and wrestle guys with different styles.

no WWE champ has ever had to carry that kind of burden. so i cannot consider them in the "greatest" conversation. the closest was when WWE got huge in Europe, and they were making frequent runs over there, but even still it was the same guys the champ was wrestling, just in front of a different audience.

 

i agree with every one of these with a couple minor exceptions.

Hacksaw Duggan was a comedy/cartoon character in WWE, and that character i never cared about either. but before that in Bill Watt's Mid-South wrestling he was a Terry Gordy type brawler that was alot of fun to watch and was their champion. back around 86-87, MId South was the best wrestling show on TV. Duggan, Dr. Death Steve Williams, Ted Dibiase, a young Sting and Rick Steiner tag team, R and R Express, Terry "Bam Bam" Gordy, Barry Windham, and The Sheepherders. Duggan and Gordy put on great matches for the Mid South title.

The Bushwackers were known as the Sheepherders before coming to WWE and being made into cartoon characters. and they were one of the best heel tag teams around. they did hardcore matches before anybody else really. they would come in, and destroy whatever pretty boy tag team a territory had; Rock and Roll Express, Fantastics, Fabulous Ones, Lawler and Jarrett.

it would build up week by week, and then they would travel the circuit doing gory-as-hell barbed wire matches.

 

how the hell do you not like the bushwackers or hacksaw!!??!!! have you no soul??

 

Agree with you about Flair and the pills. Obviously he was known as a big time party guy but I also don't remember ever hearing about it effecting his performance like it did at times with HBK.

And I don't think you're right about HBK and HHH being on the booking committee, at least not officially. I don't think HHH had any power at that time and only really started getting it once he started dating Stephanie. HBK was more of a shadow booker where he whined to Vince about which guys he wanted to work with along with what guys he thought deserved pushes and which guys he didn't feel could work and thus shouldn't be pushed. He also caused Cowboy Bill Walts to quit his job as head booker because HBK didn't like him for stuff that happened between the two when HBK first started out in Texas.

 

I've only seen like one or two matches of Duggan and the Wackers as serious workers so it's really hard for me to judge them on those. But I probably still would have felt the same way about them because I'd keep going back to their WWF roles.

I think you know the answer to your question already.

 

Hmm. Most hated wrestlers ... that's a bit tougher topic. Honestly I actually appreciate a lot of the hard work that most of these guys put in, but I'll see if I can come up with the guys I like the least.

1) 1-2-3 Kid / Syxx / X-Pac / Sean Waltman - Bleh. As a young guy he was entertaining, and his original run as part of the nWo as Syxx was actually pretty good. But his act got old in a hurry. I'm so tired of the Bronco Buster it's not even funny ...

2) HHH - A controversial selection, to be sure. But one of the big reasons I got out of watching today's product has to do with Hunter and his complete decimation of everyone on the roster in the mid 2000s. He really seems hell-bent on eclipsing Flair's record for number of titles. Marrying his way to the top just made it easier for me to hate him. He seems to have gotten better now, but I can't stand watching him today.

3) JBL - I actually liked the run that he had with Farooq as the Acolytes (unrelated, but by the way, I always thought they should have repackaged the Road Warriors/LOD with the Ministry of Darkness, called them the Hounds of Hell or something. Missed opportunity there, IMO), but his later run really soured me. Factor in that he's reputedly a prick backstage and you have the makings of a miserable human being. I don't miss him much at all.

4) Chris Masters - An unmitigated disaster in the ring. Looks even worse now with the hair plugs. I still remembe him breaking Stevie Richard's face in one of his first matches on Raw. Absolutely one of the worst workers, promos, I have ever seen. Believe it or not, another reason I stopped watching the product.

5) Leg Luger - I never really thought he was anything special, even during his 97 run as "The Total Package" in WCW. I just thought his whole posing schtick and "Jiggle Rack" was ******ed. Outside the ring it isn't much better. Elizabeth will always be my favorite female valet, and it's hard for me not to hold Luger responsible for her death.

Once again, it's hard for me to quantify Voldemort on this list. I absolutely loved him as a worker, but he's a complete piece of human excrement who took a very cowardly way out of life. I don't think he deserves mention as either liked or disliked. Instead I think he needs to fade into obscurity.

Like I said at the outset, I actually appreciate the work that most of these guys put in, even the ones who aren't superstars.

 

I don't think picking Triple H is too controversial since well more than half of the IWC pretty much hated the guy in the mid 2000s because he never laid down for anyone and turned into a shell of his former self work wise. Some of his matches while champion were downright embarassing (him vs. Steiner at the '03 Rumble immediately come to mind) as was his refusal to put anyone over. And obviously it hurt that he had so much power backstage. Triple H's days as a great worker are probably over due to his multiple leg surgeries but I think he's slowly starting to get/earn a little more respect back from people. But let's not forget just how good the guy was from 2000 to 2001. It's just a shame that his injuries and ever increasing muscle mass have really hurt his skills.

 

i am basing HBK and HHH being on the booking committee that far back on Bret Hart's book. he says they, along with Patterson and of course Vince were decision makers even that far back. dunno for certain if it is true but have yet to hear it refuted since the book came out.

 

i am liking everybody's lists so far and your reasoning for each. i am gonna give a list of underrated guys from my many years of wrestling watching. i couldnt keep it to 5. no particular order...

Arn Anderson: if he had a different look and/or a slightly smaller sized noggin' i believe he would've been a world champ at some point. he just had good matches all the time.

Chief Wahoo McDaniel: Flair puts him over big time in his book, as a guy who taught him alot inside and outside the ring, and for a fat old guy by the 80's, he could go in the ring. i can even overlook that he played for the Jets in the 60's.

Bill Eadie (Masked Superstar, Demolition Axe): As Masked Superstar, he dominated Mid Atlantic Wrestling and a few other NWA territories for a few years back in my youth. very good on the mic, to the point his interviews used to creep me out. He never yelled or screamed, but his psychology was good and he was very agile for a big guy at that time. used the Cobra Clutch finisher that Sargent Slaughter stole and made famous in WWF.

Magnum TA: this guy would be a hall of famer had he not wrapped his porsche around a tree in the late 80's. he had an amateur wrestling background, and was being built to dethrone Flair when his accident happened. His belly to belly suplex finisher off the irish-whip into the ropes was kind of the Goldberg Jackhammer of the 80's.

Dean Malenko: Guerrerro and Benoit got a mention from Sam, so i thought i would give "the shooter" a mention. when those three jumped to WCW, and the cruiserweight division was filled when those 3 plus Ultimo Dragon, Kidman, Jericho, Juvy, Rey, Psycosis, Jerry Lynn, i could not wait to watch Nitro.

Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane: as (their version of) the Midnight Express i was a total mark for those guys. and both were pretty good stand alone wrestlers as well. plus, from everything i have ever heard Bobby Eaton was the nicest, most decent guy in the business.

 

I think you have to consider the source for that one though. But hey who really knows. I don't think anyone would deny that HBK didn't have his say in the booking process but I don't think HHH was that involved and had a lot of input in things. But it would make some sense considering the ill will HHH and Bret have with each other still even to this day.

 

Underrated List, which I had to really think about and I'm sure a lot of my picks don't seem like underrated picks either:

Bam Bam Bigalow (he was a great big man that could move very well in the ring)

Raven (I don't think he really gets enough credit for his work)

Booker T. (again I don't think he gets enough credit even if he's a former world champion)

Steve Austin (a little crazy I know but only because I think people forget just how good of a wrestler he was before he broke his neck and thus had to turn to brawling tactics)

Rick Rude (he had a hell of a gimmick and really started to get good in the ring before his neck injury ended his career)

Ted DiBiase (yes another semi big name but never got enough credit for both his gimmick and in ring work, he really should have been given a run with the world title)

Tito Santana (he was basically a jobber to the stars but the guy could work a match)

 

Underrated .... hmm again this is one that I'll have to think about.

I am enjoying these lists, as difficult as they are to put together.

Roddy Piper, to me, is a guy that never really got his due with a long run as champ. He was a great promo and also very good in the ring, at least early in his career. A lot of those 80s heels (including Ted DiBiase, who has already been mentioned) were somewhat castigated by Hogan having the belt for so long.

Jake Roberts is one of my favorites, and he seemed to inspire a number of wrestlers. Off the top of my head, I think that Razor Ramon, Raven, and DDP, all very underrated in their own right, really took a lot from Roberts, both in terms of promo and wrestling style.

Sting has been brought up previously, but I think he's been somewhat forgotten by fans. He, more than anyone else, made the nWo angle the hottest thing in the industry, and he's always been good on the mike and on the stick. Mrs. VO was a huge Sting mark back in the day, and while his TNA run hasn't been nearly the level of his WCW stuff, it's still been relatively entertaining.

Smart fans, especially guys like us, appreciate Chris Jericho. But I think his work has largely gone unnoticed by the more casual fans. Jericho has done a great job reinventing himself during his second run in WWE, so much so that I see pictures and video from that first run, and I go ... "oh yeah ..." Also, not sure how many of you watch NXT, but it's nice to see him actually put the Walls of Jericho (the real version, not the ****ty Boston Crab) on other wrestlers. Guess those rookies deserve it.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I don't think that we give John Cena his due.
I was a big fan of Cena when I same his rapping gimmick on SmackDown for the first time - I pegged him as a future world champion and my friends laughed at me. Cena has loads of charisma, and while he's not exactly the greatest wrestler in the world, he's certainly able to hold his own, provided he's got a decent opponent and not a stiff. Edge is also one of the newer guys that goes unnoticed by a lot, as he's quietly put together a very solid career. The thing, at least for me, that most of these newer guys are missing is a signature match or moment that helps to define their career - especially in the case of Cena and Edge, who have had largely the same match with different people for the last 3 years.

Fun topic. I'll keep adding if I can think of more names.

 

Just wanted to comment on both Jericho and Cena/Edge.

I think had Jericho not returned to the WWE he'd absolutely be underrated however I think now he's starting to gain a lot of respect with how he seemingly reinvented himself with his new heel gimmick, I think he's now being viewed much better. I've seen some of the long time internet writers and reporters putting him pretty high up in the top ever rankings. Personally I think he's a better all around worker than Bret Hart, who always is in the debate of top guys. I think the only thing that has really hurt Jericho throughout his career is his finish move, since he really doesn't have a good one. I was never a fan of the Lionsault or Breakdown or even the Code Breaker and sure the Walls of Jericho is cool when done right (blame the WWE roster for Jericho using that Boston Crab since the other wrestlers either don't know how to sell the Walls of Jericho right and that can't bend that way. It's probably a mix of both) but he hasn't been able to showcase it since he left WCW. Wrestlers need that one big finisher to pop the crowd and Jericho never really had one.

You're absolutely right about Cena and Edge (and I'll throw in Orton's name too) not having that one signature moment or match. I could honesty watch any Cena, Orton or Edge match from say 2004ish to the present and if you were to black out the crowd and any telling signs of which event or PPV it was from I'd have no idea when it took place (and I bet most people would feel the same too), especially if they're fighting each other. It's weird that neither guy truly has at least one stand out match like all of the other big name guys/legends, especially when they've been around and on the top of the card for so long.

 

A few underrated are

Chris Jericho-you have all already stated my opinions on this guy. Hard working,company guy who really just might be the best at what he does. This guy is so rich in his wrestling skills and holds. I feel this is one guy who can play any role and run away with it.

CM Punk-He might not seem that underrated but this is a guy who should be part of the title scene more often. Probably the top heel they have right now,along with Jericho on Smackdown they help carry the show. His mic work is superb in my opinion and really knows how to get under the crowds skin. I really enjoy every time he gets on the mic.

Raven- Might seem like an odd pick but I was always a fan of this guys work,his character is so deep and makes for interesting angles whenever he is on. Such as creative mind he has and really knows how to make whatever he is involved with unique. I just feel he sometimes doesn't get the recognition he deserves.

Jack Swagger- Here is another pick of a guy that could be a real talent if they tried, he has such athletic and natural wrestling ability. Fantastic wrestler who knows how to put on a good match and even put on a good show with the main eventers like Cena and Triple H. I kind of see him as the younger version of Kurt Angle in a way if they used him properly. One of the gems they have on their roster if they tried to push him.

John Morrison-He may not seem underrated but in a way he is,he sort of can get lost on the card but is starting to work his way up. I love watching his matches especially his unique move set. Back in the MNM days I knew he would be the break away star and be the future of the company. His time may come soon and it will be well deserved,like Swagger this is another gem on the roster that will be a natural maineventer in time.

Elijah Burke(D'Angelo Dinero)- I have seen a lot from this guy in TNA lately,he slipped through the cracks on ECW but this guy seems like a future star in TNA. He has that natural charisma on the mic and really knows how to get the crowd going. Not only that but he has great wrestling skills packaged along with it. I for one can't wait to see his rise in the company

These are mine for now,if I think of more later I will add on

 

Thursdays TNA Impact replay scored the same as the Monday nights live show, which was a 1.0.

 

Hmm a most hated list might be harder. Mainly because there were so many bland/boring wrestlers that I can't stand.

I guess, if I had to put a list together...

-Paul Roma (always hated this guy for some reason)
-Mr. Hughes (I am pretty sure his gimmick was a limo driver...)
-Shane Douglas (unreasonable prick)
-Viscera/Mabel/Big Daddy V
-Mideon/Phinneas I. Godwinn
-Glacier
-Jerry Flynn (NOT Jerry Lynn)
-Scott Putski


Okay so that was more than five...

edit: Shawn Stasiak too...hated the guy.

 

I meant to put Mabel/Big Vis on my list too, just forgot. Good one with Mideon, I should have included him and Henry Godwinn there, I hated the Godwinns.

 

TNA's main event for tonite is apparently going to be AJ Styles vs Jeff Hardy.

and they just got around to promoting it this morning on the internet.

the cynic in me thinks that someone who likes to say the word "Brother" alot is afraid Hardy might pop a bigger rating than he did last week.