http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11718/how-i-see-it-afc-east-stock-watch-18 Toss in Dimitri Tsoumpas and that is 4 G's for 1 position, DTrain has been injured the last two offseasons if he is going to be more than Joe Toledo this apparently is the offseason to do show it...now.
D Thomas showed high effectiveness in certain areas but was unpolished, raw and inconsistent at other times. The massive loading up at G is probably to find out if he can elevate his game. I suspect this is a mentality to bring out the most in their players. They've seen flashes of what Thomas can do, but they need to trust he can do it all the time. Whether he wins out a battle through camp is another question but should be an intersting position to watch through the summer.
Despite solid O Line play through 2008, looks like a lot of insurance policies are being put into place and we're not pausing effort to get better. From what I saw last year though, the most inconsistent part of the line was Carey at RT.
Sure, maybe at the end of the year when he was nursing both knee and back injuries. The lack of respect Carey gets is really amazing around here.
Damn! I already he started his Bronzed Bust for Canton with all the praise he was getting around here!
The sun orbits around Donald Thomas.] He is going to have stay healthy this preseason cycle, I still like him as a player for us, two yrs coming into TC with an injury has not helped him to develop, he was a 1.5 yr starter at UConn after trying to play BBall. Incognito has tons of experience for such a young player, ditto Tsoumpas in the CFL and Garner actually won the RG job inseason last yr.
It is the policy of this regime to have competition at every position. Satisfaction yields complacency, which yields regression. You can't take this signing as a slap on any one person.
I think last year's waiver claim had much to do with our OL health at the time, and not so much as Thomas' performance. Obviously they liked Incognito and his versatility, so it made sense to try and get another body in there.
Smiley is also in danger of falling off of the cliff as it were, he had to visit a Shoulder specialist during the 09 season and there has been no reports of a surgery..his shoulder may be bad enough that there is no more material to remove.
Last year, his foot injury probably prevented him from working on his weakness, lower body power. I think your right about his offseason work making or breaking him this time around.
It seems to me the strength of our OL has been coming from the Tackles - L and R. I don't understand why Carey gets so much criticism. When healthy, he's a top RT. Nonetheless, I like the OL additions. I'm pretty sure everyone wants the best OL we can put together on the field, regardless of the name on the back of the jersey. If we've got someone who can block better than Thomas (or Smiley) then that's who I want starting instead. If Thomas is relegated to a back up because of it, then it just means that we're that much deeper @ OG.
It's only for depth, I bet. Anyone remember last season where we were so thin in one game with Grove and Smiley out, they were debating on putting in Merling on the O-Line???
They tried. Adding Bess, Hartline, and Turner is at least some form of effort. 2 of those 3 have been worthy contributors. They have failed to bring adequate competition for the #1 WR role. I'll give them a pass for 2008, because they couldn't have known that both Ginn and Turner would suck. But if they continue to ignore this problem, then I'm gonna flip.
We can't get it done if our Injuries keep piling up. We need to find guys who can take the beating that being an O Line starter requires.
That was more of a Roster issue Fin, 5 Oline starters and two backups, one of the backups was injured as well as Smiley, Grove and Carey. Well, I'd think Incognito has to beat out D Thomas and N Garner to stick as Tsoumpas at worst is practice squad eligible.
I thought Thomas was very good when healthy. I know sounding like a broken record with "when Healthy" but its the truth.
Incognito was signed to a 1-year deal. Doesn't mean Thomas has already lost the job. Just means hes going to have to bust his *** and make sure he stays healthy.
More or less, add in the injuries and his progress has stalled, he still is a wonderful athlete, but as Sparano said 'Medicority will not be tolerated here". They were pulling him out of games on passing downs before just replacing him with Nate Garner.
Was going to touch on this. Personally, I think Garner is in play at LG. And right now, I expect a guard tandem of Garner/Incognito or Smiley/Incognito. Lets also not forget how well Joe Berger played last season. I expect to see him in the mix at guard as well as center. We have a lot of depth on the OL, boys. Depth at tackle is pretty much young and unknown at this point......except for Nate Garner of course. That's where he played in college and was the first guy off the bench for Long/Carey this season. The Jets could very well have the best OL in the league. But I would put our "Gameday 8" up against anybody. Padre loves Tsoumpas. I personally know next to nothing about him. But if he proves to be another find for us, we could very well find ourselves picking up some extra draft picks come late August.
FWIW, Berger probably stays at backup C/G. And they used Garner as a Te on occasion and he did a good job at it, that dude may just be too valuable to keep as crazy as that sounds. Agreed, and imho Haynos and Fasano are the two best blocking Te's in the AFCE. Exactly, don't forget about Lydon Murtha and Andrew Gardner, if Gardner's shoulder is 100% he will shine in this Training Camp and perhaps make Nate Garner, or himself, trade bait. As for Tsoumpas, imho we draft a G with a late round pick and Tsoumpas and the pick fight it out for the Practice Sqaud reserve slot with Garner, Incognito, Berger and Smiley fighting it out for the starting Guard position. that puts Incognito in a hole behind Garner, who has shown the staff he can play all 5 Oline positions plus blocking Te, but then again we all have seen Tuna/Irish/Sparano operate before, if they think any of the three is better than J Smiley, he could be gone as he is quite expensive and is hurt every year. The Oline will be the largest it's been since the JJ era.
I think he gets criticism LG because I believe he could be a better football player if he wanted to, sometimes his extra weight puts him in precarious situations where he's not able to recover quickly enough...he's still good though, just a little dissapointing when it comes to his ceiling.
it's not just a competition thing at this point ... this regime wants to win - knows what it takes to win -- NOW. it also knows that we have 'injury prone' players, that when they go down, we need very capable backups .... don't be too surprised if we were to cut Smiley, if the FO was confident enough in the lot we currently have at G with depth (Garner, Thomas, Tsoumpas, Incognito, Hartline and Feinga). it also seemed that the FO was disappointed in the progress of Thomas in the latter portion of the season last year. being a UCONN alum, i want to see him do well - but of course its more important the line does well. this year is critical for both Smiley and Carey .... Smiley due to injury, and both due to $$$. I predicted last year that Carey could be trade bait for the draft this year, that was predicated on the readiness of Gardner (add in Murtha) and their growth over the season ... it would seem that he is not ready to take over RT at this point, and i don't think Garner is either (he showed some true value at G) -- so, it is likely that that prediction will have to slip a year ... but still believe it valid. Carey has high value right now ... and it is not likely to drop over the course of this year, but you never know. what is clear to me is that the FO is clearly oriented on fixing the D this year, and improve depth on the offense. we 'may' tinker on WR - still a need, and TE -- depending on the progress of Nalbone. But without a doubt - OLB is our #1 need .... coupled with a S.
The Jets may have the best offensive line in the AFCE but Miami may have the deepest offensive line talent in the AFCE and not far behind the Jets in talent, JMO of course.
Additionally, Padre, if things go well with Garner, Berger, Incognito and the rest between now and TC, given Smiley's injury issues and huge salary, he could be movin' on out, perhaps even before TC if they feel comfortable enough with the other guys... EDIT: Sorry, didn't read far enough...you mentioned this...
I do not think it is safe to say that "Donald Thomas is no longer our RG". I think it is safe to say that Donald Thomas has to earn his spot to start at RG. Just like everyone on the team. If someone beats out Jake Long, then he is going to be repositioned or benched. That is how this FO works.
i would seriously doubt someone would unseat Big Jake .... but i do think Carey could be expendable .... not because we don't want him -- just a salary type issue. This being an 'uncapped' year helps his case ..... but next year, if Gardner / Murtha pan out, he will likely be gone, especially since we could get a 1st round pick for him. If Gardner or Murtha were ready this year, a late 1st round pick would fetch us two of OLB/S/WR in rd 1 .... which would be tremendous.
it's not an issue of trying to get rid of Carey ... its a $$$ issue now. IF you can get similar play from a younger, less costly player -- then you do that. The key is you have to get similar play AND still have a backup ..... I am a fan of sell high ... something this team hasn't done very well - almost never. but to trade Carey, there are conditions to be met before it could happen. I was very high on Gardner when we got him .... thought it was a steal actually. Guess we'll find out soon enough where he is at. Murtha was just a bonus thrown in during the season -- but a very nice one. So all in all, at T - we should be in a good position this year. We have 2 solid starters with 2 solid potential backups .... the problem is -- keeping all 4. i have bought 'out' of the rebuilding process mantra .... this regime wants to win NOW. you can see it in how they are plugging holes. we got a huge bonus when Henne had to play last year .... otherwise, it would have been a huge saga going into this year .... he has experience, and now if he is surrounded by a good line (check), some playmakers (no check, minus Ronnie - but he doesn't count, since his playmaking is really in the WC), and a good defense (check minus right now -- but big improvement with Dansby) .... we will plug the OLB and S holes .... and hopefully, bring in a WR -- which makes this team a definite playoff contender.
I say good riddance to Thomas. He's fat, slow, and I don't think he's accumulated any stats. I watched all his games and all he did was hover around the line of scrimmage every play and push people. I don't understand why we put him in on Offense if we don't even throw to him. He's big, can't run, and he's mean to the other teams's players. In the Tennessee game I saw him push a player down and then lay on him so he couldn't get up.
Uhmmmmm. You say they didn't throw to him? You say he's mean, pushed guys down and lays on them? And this is all criticism? You do know football????
Could we have just one thread that doesn't get off topic right to the WR position please? I think we ALL know how bad off we are at WR, but does it HAVE to be said in EVERY thread? Sorry for the rant, just would like to see a discussion of anything other than WR without it digressing to the WR problem we all already know we have. Thank you, and back to topic I like the signing of more bodies for OG, Smiley and Thomas have been problem spots for two years, and Grove is a bit suspicious whether he can stay healthy a full year. This OL will never reach true greatness until all 5 positions play together long enough without having to adjust to a new player at LG, C, RG once or twice a season.