1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Here's why WR shouldn't be a priority this year

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Mar 18, 2010.

Tags:
  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Agree with a Te, somewhat with Wr.


    Sanchez started how many games?

    Chad Henne needs to up his game as he threw some dumbass int's that had -0- to do with the quality of Wr, the Titans Game, the Steelers game...

    Dummy Int's cost us those games, yet Ted Ginn is the goat for the Indy game.
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    if you think what we have done is all you need to do you aren't being realistic.
     
  3. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Right, that's because there's no defensive player that will be available at #12 that will give us the value that Bryant or Marshall would give us.



    Only difference is that Quinn at #9 was a serious reach, while getting Bryant at #12 would be like getting a top 5 talent.


    So basically you're saying that wanting a WR is just us fans being delusional.......that's BS. Scour the internet for pre draft analysis and find me ONE source that doesn't have WR listed as one of the Dolphins top needs. In fact I bet at least half of what you will find will have WR as the biggest need.


    Sorry, he's not worth the #12 over all


    Using most of our resources ( FA money and #12 overall pick) on two ILB's (non core positions) should be enough to get someone fired.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I think E Thomas, B Graham, and D Morgan are worth it.


    In your view.



    Why scour the 'net when I watched every single game this yr, including preseason, some games twice?

    I do know in 09 Mel Kiper tried his level best to pawn Heywood-Bey on the dolphins.

    As for delusional, that is a projection on your part JS, delusional is jumping the grand canyon with a tricycle, what "Wr NOW!" fans are doing is losing all objectivity imho.





    Never be sorry for having an opinion Js.




    Odd, the Jets paid 40 million for Bart Scott and traded up to take David Harris..

    They seem to think the position is that important.
     
  5. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Sanchez also got a play maker to help prop him up



    Ok so instead of trying to give him some obviously needed help, we're just going to tell him to go out there with the same barely average cast and tell him to just "play better"

    Henne is put into positions where he has to force the ball to guys who can't get any separation, nor get any kind of yards after the catch ............nor present much of a red zone threat

    To say he doesn't need help is just ridiculous...
     
  6. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville

    Right....and you want to follow the same out dated path the Jets are taking. Running game and defense.....
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Really? Who? Outside of playing well against the Dolphins, Edwards was quiet, in fact it could be argued, correctly, that Ted Ginn outplayed him.



    I know you watched the games JS...I did not use terms such as "dummy int" for no reason, he just screwed up and it cost us at least the titans game, so "yes"

    Play better is in order for Henne.



    Dude was falling down and just threw the ball up for grabs in the middle of the field, that has -0- to do with the quality of Wr.

    Imho he was benched in Pittsburgh for throwing yet another dummy int and we were treated to White then Thigpen, that stuff about depth perception was really "I did see the depth the Steelers Db had meant if I threw the ball it would be picked off"..imho of course.


    And our red zone offense was fine, we ran for scores and it worked pretty well..we also increased our 3rd down efficiency, and Hartline average what..16 ypc?
     
  8. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    At WR, Edwards commands respect....Ted Ginn doesn't

    Big diffeernce





    Well yeah, he was a rookie with a cannon, throwing to a dink and dunk WR corp...of course he had problems

    All QB's, especially in their first season, make stupid throws


    Total conspiracy theory


    If you're trying to say we have no need to upgrade and get some play makers....you are in a vast minority who think so



    Oh and that whole Dez Bryant smear campaign got dismantled today in an interview he did on WQAM.....so you guys better dig a little deeper...lol
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    JS...I would expect better from you, give me some credit..A Benn was on as well, at 2:30, listened to them both...and why oh why other than a real need to believe would one take his word for it?
     
  10. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Well disagreeing with you doesn't mean I don't give you credit or have respect for you, this isn't the first time we've disagreed and I can't remember ever holding that against you or insinuating that I don't care what you have to say.....I actually work diligently to keep up with your prolific post count :wink2:

    And I'm not just basing it on what he has to say.....but it does seem as tho some of you are taking to gospel, everything negative being said about the kid and now as time goes on, a lot of that seems to have been exaggerated.

    Passing on this kid at #12, if he's there, would be a serious set back in the plans to get this team to a SB.
     
    padre31 likes this.
  11. BigCityCat

    BigCityCat New Member

    4
    0
    0
    Mar 7, 2010
    Against the Colts and Saints we scored a lot of points but our defense couldn't stop the run and the Colts running game wasn't great.

    The Trifecta used two draft picks on wide receiver and I don't think they use anymore till they see how they develop.
     
  12. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    Another example of oversimplifying things. The defensive and offensive rankings don't tell the whole story. Part of the reason our defense suffered was the inability of our offense to sustain drives. Especially in the 4th quarter.

    We can bring in all the help we want. Our defense still won't be the best in the NFL and the Saints and the Colts have shredded the best of the best as if they were the worst.

    Defense is important, but the NFL rules favor offense. We either evolve on offense and keep up with the rest of the league, or we remain stagnant. We won't win in today's NFL without a #1 WR.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Drafting our LT or Willie McGinnest would go a long way towards a SB as well JS.
     
  14. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

    612
    255
    0
    Dec 24, 2009
    The rules in the league have continuously changed to shift the balance of the game toward the offense and will continue to do so because low scoring defensive games are boring to watch for the vast majority of fans and more fans = more money.

    The NFL has done away with the old days of defense wins chamionships and has shifted much more toward a high powered offense winning championships. Colt's Saint's anyone? You ain't going to the big game without playmakers on your offense these days a great defense will only get you so far.
     
    MonstBlitz and jetssuck like this.
  15. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    OK, question.......

    You appear as tho you would like to see an almost total emphasis on defense, using most and the best of our resources...

    Do you think this will be enough, that we'll be seriously contending next season or do think we'll need another off season?
     
  16. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,862
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    As I recall the Saints were pretty good on D last year...
     
  17. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    They were 25th in yards allowed

    They were 20th in points allowed


    What they were is opportunistic.....

    Number one in both INT and fumbles returned for TD's
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    We will be contending this season either way.

    That is a bold statement I'll grant, however Henne will have that yr of starting experience and imho that will make a huge difference especially early in the season.

    Most people think "ahh...if we only get player X"..

    I think in terms "ahh..if only the players we have perform better.."

    Which is why I like moves like bringing in Incognito and hopefully Jeanty, they are Vets they know what the Staff is trying to accomplish, well maybe not rotten Richie, but still, 75% of success in the NFL comes from not beating yourself.


    Consider this, we started 0-3, we also lost both games after Holiday breaks, if that is improved on we will be right there all yr.
     
  19. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Well according to you, this team, primarily the defense, is full of holes....do you not expect that some of those holes will have to be addressed next season?
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    If it were me...sure.

    With Irish and Co, who knows? We have no idea what Nolan's conclusions were after evals on the 09 squad, we have no idea what they think of Henne, or Greg C, or Fasano.

    Imho Sparano will be more concerned with execution this year rather than plugging in player X as with him, it is all about low turnovers, few mistakes, fundamentally sound football.

    Everything grows from there.

    And some of those holes there are no easy answers for, NT, S, OLB, G, just saying take "player X" is not a very effective or realistic plan imho JS.

    I mean really, say it out loud:

    "If we draft Dez Bryant, all of our problems will be solved"

    Really?
     
  21. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,313
    4,169
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    390 points folks
    that deserves serious attention
     
  22. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    No not at all......in fact I'm of the thinking that we can't fill all the holes this year and no one player is going to solve all our problems.

    I'm looking at what I think will make the biggest impact not only for our team, but for our young QB. In fact, Henne's future is the main factor in my own decision making.

    Obviously not all positions can be filled, either way we will have to neglect something until next year..

    So, I pick waiting on some of those defensive improvements you want and focusing on getting Henne better targets, to help ensure that this crucial sophomore season of his is a good one, that he does take the next step and not regress. Rather than sending him back out there with what most everyone deems as a rather weak group of receivers.

    Henne's development is absolutely crucial to this team.....if he tanks it, we're screwed for quite some time. So I'd rather concentrate on preventing that from happening than beefing up the defense so that we can be one and done in the playoffs this year. Because until we have some actual playmakers, we're only going so far anyway...
     
  23. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

    8,365
    4,211
    113
    Jan 5, 2010
    the next dimension
    I can only think of 4 reasons that this thread title may be true:

    AJ Green
    Michael Floyd
    Julio Jones
    Jonathan Baldwin
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  24. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    A complete rebuild of the defense?

    The Saints gave up 341....and flirted for a time with an undefeated season

    We don't need to spend all our resources this year on defense to see an improvement in that area.....in fact, the addition of Mike Nolan alone should shave a few points off our per game average.
     
  25. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    The old days are 2008 and 2007 to you?
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  26. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    The difference between 08 and 09 Saints was their D. They got 17 more turn overs in 09 than 08. By comparison the Dolphins got 21 total turn overs in 09, 18 less than the Saints. They won in the post season because they could generate turnovers.
     
  27. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Right......which is why I said:


     
  28. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

    25,809
    39,060
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    Berlin,Germany
    including the league leader in sacks...:no:
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  29. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

    612
    255
    0
    Dec 24, 2009
    Not sure I follow. Are you saying 08 Patriots and Giants weren't high powered offenses? 07 Colts weren't a high powered offense? 07 Bears is a good example of defense not winning championships, they got routed by the Colts 29-17.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  30. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    First the 07, and 08 superbowl champs were the Gaints and the Steelers. The superbowl is played after the season is over.

    The 07 Giants were 16th in yards and 14th in points, so no, I wouldn't call them a high powered offense. They did beat the best passing offence of all time in the Superbowl though. The 08 Steelers were 22nd in yards and 20th in points. Again, not exactly high powered. They beat a team in the Superbowl that was top 5 in both.
     
  31. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    I know, I was expounding on what you wrote.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  32. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

    612
    255
    0
    Dec 24, 2009
    If you don't think those are high powered offenses what would you call ours? It is anemic by comparison. You think the Steelers would have won without a high powered offense? They were down 23-20 in the final 2 minutes and won on offense in the last 35 seconds with an amazing catch by Santonio Holmes. Coincidentally the Giants also won in the last 35 seconds with a TD catch by Plaxico Burress.

    Do you honestly think they would have won without the playmakers to get them down the field and score in the final 2 minutes? Where are the Giants now without their playmaker wide reciever? I don't understand why people so seriously underestimate the importance of this position. It opens up the whole offense...
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    You can't confuse having playmakers with having a high powere offense. The Giants weren't a top 10 offense, and the Steelers weren't even top 20. O wouldn't call them "high powered" offenses. A team certainly needs playmakers, but doesn't need a high powered offense. Our playmakers don't happen to be at WR...unless Ginn can become Cribbs or Desean Jackson by next season...
     
    Two Tacos likes this.
  34. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

    612
    255
    0
    Dec 24, 2009
    Call them whatever you want then, it's all semantics... The point is you need recievers to win games. Colts lose Harrison, they lose the superbowl the next year because noones open and Manning throws an interception on that final drive. You guys can quote all the stats in the world but all your proving is that stats don't win Super Bowls, players do.

    Which brings up another point we have a rookie QB who did great for his first year, now we wan't to continue that development, how do we do that without getting him a weapon to throw the ball to? We are likely to actually stunt his development by not giving him any weapons to throw the deep ball to and turn him into another dink and dunk passer just out of force of habit and lack of confidence throwing the ball deep.

    You know the old saying it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks? Once you learn something that works for you it's hard to change that strategy your instinct is to always go with what's worked in the past. If Henne get's in the habit of throwing dinks and dunks on 10 minute drives down the field because our FO didn't get him a legitimate target to throw the deep ball to it's going to be disgraceful.

    The guy has the tools and the arm we've seen it spordaically with what we've got, we don't wan't to get him out of the habit of looking down field due to lack of success. It's really important to get him a good reciever to open up the field and let him learn the game the way it needs to be played to win the big game as opposed to asking him to relearn the game a few years down the road if we ever do find a legitimate target at #1.

    There are just so many aspects to this to say that WR should not be a priority is just the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, everyone knows we need a WR, the Fans, The Press, Analysts and even Henne himself in an interview I just read:


    "There's definitely guys out there, like you said," Henne said. "There's T.O. [Terrell Owens]. There's Brandon Marshall. There's guys in the draft. Where we're at, we have a bunch of young guys who are definitely learning and going to be explosive in the next coming year.

    "But you need kind of a veteran guy that's really going to take hold of our young guys and teach them the right ways."




    Get the guy a reciever already he not only needs it but if any QB we've had since Marino warrants it, it's Henne.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  35. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    They wouldn't have gotten there with out their Ds. The teams with the better Ds won the superbowl, not the teams with the great O's. This is getting silly. Are you really saying that the 07 Giants had a great offence? Or the 08 Steelers? Better than the teams they played, those being the Pats and Cards? Did the teams with the best WRs win? Burress and Tryee are better than Moss and Welker? Holmes and Randle are better than Fitz and Quian?

    Look, you think WR is our biggest need. Fine, argue that. But if you are trying to say that D cannot win champions anymore, you are wrong, as witnessed by 2 of the last 3 champions. You say rule changes favor O making that side more important. I say no, rule changes favor the O, making it far more important to have talent on the D. You can get away with lesser players on the O because of the rule changes.
     
    resnor likes this.
  36. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

    612
    255
    0
    Dec 24, 2009
    What I am saying is we don't stand a chance without someone even the caliber of Buress, Holmes, Moss etc... on this team, these teams all have something in common and it's a piece to the puzzle that we don't have...

    I am also saying putting off getting Marshall or someone of his caliber while it's staring you in the face is ridiculous not only because you need a recievers like this to actually win the big game but because it also makes life harder on Henne and stunts his development which in turn stunts the development of the whole offense and can ensure this team stays status quo for years to come.

    What I am saying is the notion of this thread "WR is not a priority" is the most ludicrous thing i've ever heard in a very long time! :yes:

    Get the guy some weapons and let's go to the Bowl! I'm sick of the status quo...
     
  37. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007

    I think that Hartline can develop into a Holmes. We have a very young WR corps; they will be better next year with out the addition of anyone. Would a great WR help? No question. FS is a bigger hole IMO. Who is our starting FS now? Culver? Clemens?

    I don't get how a 25-year-old two time probowler, with a sparkling clean character, at a position with as big of a hole as FS is for us is starring us in the face, and we don't go get him for the 12th. If we go the restricted FA route I take Bethea over Marshall for the Phins.
     
  38. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If your an offense that has the ability to score points....score points quickly....and heck...(do something we rarely do...get up on an opponent by two scores)...you can dictate how an offense will attack you.

    And as great as we were last season against the pass.....

    Maybe we should run the ball all the time...play from behind in hopes they wont throw the ball against us.

    I for one, though want us to get a few weapons on offense....and would like to see us draft Dez Bryant if there....or even trade for Marshall.
     
  39. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

    612
    255
    0
    Dec 24, 2009
    We can get both only spending a single 1st if we want, We all know Bethea will be reluctant to leave Indy, we can get Marshall with the 1st, probably get Sharper for a nice price since the Saints don't wan't to pay him or else spend some money on Atogwe... So why would we take Bethea over Marshall and only fill one hole with our first round pick as opposed to filling 2 very important holes with that same pick?

    Honestly, which do you think would be better overall on the field, Marshall and Atogwe or Sharper, or Bethea and Ginn?
     
  40. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    3,893
    3,087
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    I think the key in all of these scenarios is Super Bowl teams build around their strengths. Teams that have elite QB's build around those guys because that gives them the best chance of winning. We don't have that elite QB yet but we also need to give him some more weapons to see what he's capable of. The Giants built around their DL helping them beat one of the best offense of all time. The Patriots won their Super Bowls without an elite WR. The Saints won with an elite QB and a stable of playmakers.

    We aren't there on either side of the ball making offense or defense could be justified. If our D was better our O wouldn't have to do so much. If our O was better our D wouldn't have to do so much. We need a WR, TE, NT, OLB or FS. You could make a compelling case for anyone of those positions. In reality, trading down and accumulating picks allows both to happen.

    If we don't address NT our run D will be swiss cheese. Dansby helps in pass coverage as done another year for Davis and Smith. A FS who can shut down the middle of the field makes us significantly better. A playmaking deep threat that opens up the field and loosens up the Defense makes us a better team. An OLB that can create havoc on opposing QB's makes us a much better team. A well rounded TE who is a receiving threat gives Henne a safety net, opens up the middle of the field and makes us much better.

    The answer is you draft BPA at one of those need positions and look to other rounds to fills and/or upgrade talent.
     

Share This Page