http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/1544092/sparano-confident-dolphins-will.html http://www.rotoworld.com/content/news.aspx?sport=NFL&Show=SKILL It appears like thats the way it will be. Leaving Garner and Thomas to battle it out for LG.
That is sort of stunning really, Incognito is a risky bet to say the least. And Dimitri Tsoumpas is in that mix as well.
They're all in the mix. Even without Smiley we have 4 guards who are capable of playing at a high level. Sparano says this now, but truth is they all will battle come training camp and the top two will win the starting spots. With the other two providing excellent depth. Add that to Jake Long and Vernon Carey at tackle and Jake Grove at center with Joe Berger as a backup and we have ourselves one hell of an offensive line.
All true, what bothers me about all of this is..Rotten Richie has not been a good player in 3 seasons, seriously, I'm a Tsoumpas homer admittedly, but Incognito's rankings have been just terrible per PFF for 08 and 09.
Can anyone give any insight into whether Incognito is more of a run blocker or pass blocker and if he is a run blocker why we wouldn't put him next to Long and have two road graders on the left?
He is a good run blocker, or at lest that is his strength per PFF: http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...e=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1 For comparison's sake, Justin Smiley is rated 15 positions higher than Incognito.
makes you wonder how much they like nate garner now. i figured incognito would be penciled in at left guard. is that garners job to win?
I'd think, when things got hot last season, they were starting Garner over Thomas. Thomas and Tsoumpas are battling it out for both the starters job and the reserve role, plus any draft pick they may add. Sparano is going to get that Guard position nailed down one way or another, it's alot like 2008 again, Don Thomas has to reprove himself.
So they are leaving garner at T. I would figure he would be in the mix at LG Thomas seems to be in TS's doghouse agree OL is the coaches baby obviously and they want to get it right everyone shakes their head at Incognito but his toughness alone could solidify us up front.
Well, keep in mind Thomas is a monster of an athlete, that hasn't went away, but and it's a huge but, his play has not matched his tools, Garner has less tools but is a better football player. Thomas's light could come on and Garner, or pretty much anyone, really couldn't compete with him imho, but that is a ton of 'buts". Right now: Long,Garner, Grove, Incognito, Carey Berger, Thomas and Tsoumpas are trying to crack that lineup, but Berger is a lock to make the roster as the backup C/G, that leaves 1 G slot open. To me though, if Thomas steps up, Garner is some sweeet trade bait. Plays every position on the Oline? A team that needs anything from a C to a LT would/could be interested in him. And we have two Tackle prospects in Andrew Gardner and Lydon Murtha , both could easily start on a lesser Oline imho, we kept Gardner on the Roster all year just so he would not get poached off of the practice squad.
While Dirty Richie, is well dirty, he is a NASTY run blocking SOB.... He is mean and tough as nails, and to be honest I think hes a bit of a throw back in that sense. Man back in the day there were guys doing FAR worse that Richie has done. But the guy when hes on can be a bulldozer
As a run blocker, Incognito was a +4.6 in 2009. Thomas was a -0.5, and Smiley and Garner were both -1.0 Our backup center, Berger, was a +7.0 as a run blocker and hopefully will get a chance to compete at G too. He came into the league as a guard and should be able to do as well at his more natural position. As a pass blocker, Richie was a +1.8 in 2009. Garner was a +5.7 and Smiley a +5.5. Thomas was a -2.1. At Center, Berger was a +3.0 as a pass blocker. Penalties are what brings Richie's overall grade down. Only 4 guards were worse than his -7.0, but interestingly one of them was Logan Mankins who was a -8.0
Even if he weren't starting, why oh why would you suggest trading our best G/T swingman, who now also has a little center experience?? My God, we have been wishing for OL depth for years and now you want to trade away a very key component of that depth if he does not happen to hold on to the starting job?
That is rather big exaggeration. He was 39th of 84 guards last yr overall, which makes him middle of the pack, not terrible. Garner was 41st and Thomas was 55th. In 2008, he was 37th, while our guards were as follows: Smiley 42nd, Alleman 44th and Ndukwe 62nd, out of 74 total guards. Even with the mess at G in 2008, we were 5 places higher in total yards than we were last season.
Because you have to surrender value to receive value? That is the payoff at developing players and having choices, unlike the OGun situation under Wanny. And Andrew Gardner can play T.
Our Guard play was weak in 08 if one recalls, Incognito being barely better than our poor G's is not exactly a ringing endorsement Mr C. Toss in his drive killing penalties, Rotten Richie was in the top 3 for penalties both seasons, which correctly killed his rating, but now "Sparano magic" is going to make that all better? Smiley was a good 15 slots ahead of Rotten Richie in 09. Eh, we'll just have to wait and see, personally imho Rotten Richie is psycho: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMeM89HQOv4"]YouTube- Richie Incognito: Rams Fan Taunting Incident[/ame] He was saying the same stuff about "more focused" that Sparano was saying at the NFL owners meetings...in 2009's preseason.. He's strong as an ox though: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwPWggDwUSk&feature=related"]YouTube- Richie Incognito 500 lb bench press[/ame]
Be that as it may, the PFF overall ratings for him do not say he was terrible. Which is what you said, Mr P. They say is average. Big difference between average and terrible. If you would have said his rating just for penalties, then yes he was. Just 4 guys were worse, so that could be defined as terrible.
What value are we going to get for Garner? A mid round draft pick most likely. So you would want to give up a known quantity that we developed for an unknown quantity? Though, maybe you believe someone will give us a pro bowl LB for him. Ok, Gardner can play tackle. Can he play it as well as Garner? Maybe. Can he also play G and C? Garner can. That is what you want from your 6th and 7th OL, since most games we only dress 7 OL. Garner's versatility and youth make him a very valuable commodity for us. Ideally one would like to see Thomas win one starting G spot, along with Incognito. Because with Berger and Garner being so darned versatile and very little if any drop off in talent from the starters, they are perfect for the 6th and 7th OL roles.
What about that video gives evidence he is a psycho? He may well be, but I just don't see how that video supports the premise. I think secretly the only reason you are down on Richie is because you want your adopted son Dimitri to win a starting job.
if & when Smiley is traded Dimitri Tsoumpas, Donald Thomas & Richie Incognito will compete for the starting guards
Smiley will be traded or cut ... Garner, i don't see being traded, if for no other reason than his versatility. You just don't find that very often ..... oh, and he is young and good to boot. I see him starting at LG, unless Thomas really shows up to play. Just think how good our situation is if Thomas can beat out Garner. Hartline, Tsoumpas, Feinga would be battling it out for 1 backup position. It also could be a reach that Garner pushes Grove and Berger for a spot. I defer back again to what i posted a few weeks ago ... Smiley and Carey were 2 solid trade candidates ... Smiley was higher due to his injury history, and both for their salaries. Smiley is a risk, so a 3d is asking a lot ..... likely we get a 4/5 at best. Really, i don't believe anyone will pick him up - since it is more than reasonable that we will cut him anyway. What works in Carey's favor is that to date Murtha or Gardner have not shown that they can step up. If either or both do -- then Carey most certainly could be dealt - and dealt for a high pick. Additionally, being an uncapped year, i don't think it happens this year - as the FO wants to win NOW ... but next year - i believe it to be almost a guarantee. It would be great to have some OTCs and to get some feedback and see where we stand.
It's his eye movement when he is speaking, they roam around kind of in a random pattern all the while his speaking about how he is a changed guy and this year will be different... And it was far from different..if anything it was much much worse. Actually..no...what I want is to be proven correct via Tsoumpas's play, he may not be a starter (barring injuries) heck he may rarely make it into preseason games with such a crowded field, but I suspect the reports will be that he is a solid olineman who holds his ground well, has a good punch, doesn't blow assignments and has decent pulling ability. Stump's game isn't going to "wow" anyone ala Thomas or Incognito, those two are physical beasts, but he will just be a solid player. No penalties, knowledge of the blocking scheme, can handle the NT one on one. Dimitri Stump is a polished professional olineman ala Bert Weidner but larger and stronger and more athletic.
Solid reasoning Phinanalyst, but Imho you are underestimating Sparano's love for Rotten Richie Incognito, we see a risk Sparano is seeing 700 pds of athletic offensive lineman on the Right Side of the formation.. O ur Oline is flippin' massive now, 6'4 310+, across the board. That is exactly what Sparano wanted when he came to Miami.
Brother Pad, nope .... good with Incognito at RG .... we wouldn't have signed him and released Smiley (albeit he is LG), if the FO wasn't satisfied with where we stood with our current lot of Gs .... personally, doubt we even draft one - unless they go for another 'versatile' G/C type to find a replacement for Grove. He is the weak link right now due to his injury history. Which brings me right back to Garner -- they could be looking to see what he can actually do at C along with Berger. They want a dominant reliable OL to move forward with -- but they won't sacrifice talent for durability. That's why i believe our G situation is a very good one right now, as they wouldn't have moved Incognito if they even remotely thought they would need Smiley this year.
You're missing like the entireity of the guys who are likely to get the job after filling in last year and performing very well.. Garner and Berger. They're by far and away the best candidates over an CFL guy, and a guy who lost his starting job to Garner.
I didn't miss anything however everyone will compete the Pod sports tremendous talent & depth Competition is the Elixir of Success
Exactly, we are on the same page on this PHINANAYST, in Dallas (if I recall correctly) Tuna carried 9 olinemen or so, and I think they intend on developing Olnemen for trade, that is strictly my opnion. Big Jake, Grove, and Vern C aren't going anywhere anytime soon, but they do tend to acquire really soild Tackle prospects, in Dallas for example a throwaway 6th rd pick was used on Doug Free, he is not inline to beatout Flozell Adams at LT. Is Andrew Gardner "their" Doug Free? Don't know, do know they like him and used a roster spot on him last yr.
i think both Gardner and Murtha were steals .... not #1 draft picks of course ... but both could end up as solid Ts. Gardner was injured and played in a bad scheme that last year -- so i am anxious to see how far he's come over this last year. Maybe Murtha is just another big body like Garner that they can make into a G if T doesn't work out. I didn't really track why Murtha was released, just that we were able to pick him up rather quickly. One thing is clear to me, at most - we'd only draft a T project, or a verstile guy who can also play C. we just don't have a need at G.
Gardner would have been higher if it weren't for his injury ... the scheme didn't help either -- but the FO was quite happy to see him sitting there in the lower rounds though, that's for sure. I think we'll see some significant improvement from him this year; hopefully, from Murtha as well ... but still not sure what the future holds for him, T or G. Gardner is definitely a T.
the Pod is deep, the Orca are young, talented, mean, big & strong. I see no problem, only good things: Andrew Hartline 6-6 305 Andrew Gardner 6-6 305 Jake Grove 6-4 300 Justin Smiley 6-3 310 Donald Thomas 6-4 310 Joe Berger 6-5 315 Richie Incognito 6-3 324 Ray Feinga 6-4 337 Vernon Carey 6-5 340 Dimitri Tsoumpas 6-4 315 Nate Garner 6-7 325 Lydon Murtha 6-7 315 Jake Long 6-7 317 the Pod is well coached: Sparano & DeGugleilmo w/ the support & experience of Bill Parcells the Orca made their bones in 2009 & they are our strongest unit going into 2010 they have the potential to the best in the NFL
