This is absolutely ridiculous. Have you ever actually watched him play? No he is not the best break down tackler against large physical backs...Lendale White and Brandon Jacobs come to mind. However he is an EXTREMELY physical player. He's no worse a tackler than a guy such as Ed Reed, and a much better "hitter". It amazes me that you think at FS we should value run support more than other attributes as well.
Count me in the crowd who thinks the ability to stop the run is a little overrated by some at the FS position. The 2009 Miami Dolphins were perfect proof. We all thought Gibril's supreme tackling was going to be a great help. It really wasn't. What we needed was an instinctive ballhawk, which everyone seems to say Earl Thomas is
yeah because we all know FS never has to be able to tackle well after a catch remember seeing wilson dragged down the field by shockey
What's ridiculous is the thought that you should ignore the ability to stop the run in a safety, particularly on a Bill Parcells run team. This guy will be a liability against the run in the NFL. He will be trampled by NFL running backs. He might be able to tackle the Reggie Bush's and CJ Spiller's of the NFL, but legitimate starting NFL runners will trample him.
Yeah and before 2009 Gibril Wilson was regarded as one of the best tackling Safeties in all the NFL. And when did I ever say that a FS doesn't have to tackle well after the catch? I simply said I think it's a LITTLE overrated. Ed Reed can't tackle as good as 20 other Safeties in the league, yet he's considered the best. Having Will Allen, the sure tackling CB is nice. Having a Deon Sanders, the worst CB tackler ever is even better.....because the ball didn't get thrown in his direction.
Well, first things first. I would draft him as a cornerback first and foremost. He's not a safety in the NFL no matter how many people love his coverage ability. As a corner, I would take him somewhere between 25-40. As a safety, he's a mid round prospect at best. Eric Berry is the clear cut top safety out there. After him on my list are Chad Jones from LSU, Reshad Jones from Georgia, Nate Allen from South Florida, Morgan Burnett from Georgia Tech, and Major Wright from Florida.
....and this will be the Triumvirate's downfall IMO. Parcells and minions out, Petersen and his boys in..... I hate it, but I see this train wreck coming......
Where did I say to ignore it? He will not be trampled by NFL backs. THAT is a ridiculous notion. You just sound like someone who has never seen him play. Or is stuck in 1970 style football. Also if the runningback is getting to your FS, you have other issues aside from his tackling. Namely your front seven.
The FS should be making the play at the LOS and not sitting back waiting on the RB to get to him. That's what real safeties like Eric Berry and Chad Jones do. Earl Thomas instead sits back and then says "oh my god!" while he grabs hold and tries to ride down the runner.
I don't think you're going to convince them any time soon, no disrespect intended. Major Wright? Really?
Also KB know I dont mean disrespect either. We just greatly differ in the way we evaluate players, and what attributes we look for in certain positions.
you make it seem like all the NFL backs are like Brandon Jacobs, if Earl Thomas can tackle Reggie Bush, no problem, he will tackle, Maroney, Fred Jackson, Addai, Barber/Jones, Stewart/Williams, McCoy, LT, just to name a few...there are more of those type of backs around, then just the big boys..
KB correct me if I'm wrong here but from what I gather, your dislike from Thomas stems from the fact that he's smaller of a player than you like and he's not as physical as a Bob Sanders. I imagine you'd like physicality with a smaller player. However, when I watch Thomas, I see a lot of potential and growth in his game. He is an interference tackler, I'll give you that. However, I don't see him being a poor one. He brings down ball carriers most of the time I watch him. I've seen him line up wide as the strong corner before and contribute in the run game and I've seen him come up in the box and stick his head in. Further, his closing burst and range I think gives him the potential to become a better player against the run. I don't see many whiffed tackles on his part when I watch him but I do agree he can become a better player against the run. He can still grow into that, just like linebackers can grow into become better run defenders, etc.
I'm no draft expert by any stretch of the imagination, but his tackling doesn't seem all that bad as you mentioned. This video shows a good aggression in his tackling game (against 3 top teams): [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRrjr5HG_ck&feature=related"]YouTube- S Earl Thomas Highlights/Lowlights 2009 Texas vs Ok. St./Nebraska/Bama[/ame]
He's probably the safest pick at 12 given Bryants Pro day, would be exciting if his ball hawking skills carry over at the NFL level, definite asset to the team. The first thing that crosses my mind is his size though most of these guys can get away with being small in college but it all changes once they hit the NFL. I'm finding it hard to get really excited about anyone in this years draft given our position :/
I don't see it. Earl Thomas is a small safety that plays small. The lack of physical play isn't just in his tackling. He gets blocked out of plays easily by wide receivers. He does not fight off blocks well at all, and when he does have an open lane to the ball carrier, he will take bad angles. Look at Michael Crabtree's TD that beat Texas last year. That was a TD because of the bad angle Earl Thomas took and the inability of Texas's cornerback to actually get Crabtree down. If Thomas takes the right angle, that game is over, and Texas gets beat by Florida in the championship game.
i don't evaluate film, and leave that to you all ... but FWIW, i agree with KB that Thomas is too small for this regime at 5'10" ... i don't think they are going to pick anyone smaller than 6'0" .... i still go with a dream shot at Berry, then drop down to Allen / Burnett .... with Allen / Burnett is rd 2 is most likely ...
I don't think Earl Thomas fits the typical size "profile" that this FO strongly prefers, but Ryan Clark is listed at 5'11'' & 205 lbs, which is only about a half inch taller and 3 pounds lighter than ET measured at in the combine (ie, not a significant difference). I also think that Earl Thomas played at a weight between 185-195 lbs for most of his career at Texas, and he bulked up significantly in the weeks leading up to the combine. From the Longhorn games I watched, he did seem aggressive/physical, but small, so if his new bulk & strength (he had 21 reps; 3 less than Mays, but 2 more than Berry) can be sustained, he might have addressed one of his bigger deficiencies. I don't know if I necessarily like ET at #12 (b/c of value, this being a deep safety draft, and greater needs elsewhere), but I wouldn't have a problem with him either if Parcells/Ireland pull the trigger.
I disagree but we'll never be able to settle this. I just want to ask you this; do you remember what Bill Polian said about Melvin Bullitt and his tackling? He said Bullitt came in as a poor tackler and while he covered well, he was a very bad tackler. He said he had the closing speed and burst to become a solid tackler, which he has done so. Bullitt was also used sometimes in the box, much like Earl Thomas, at Texas A&M. Also, I know you're going to bring up his size but I think what's more important is the weight, which you singled out various times over the past month or two with Earl Thomas. Thomas played at 198 lbs in college and checked in at 208. Call it water weight, call it whatever you want. His playing weight was only three pounds lighter than Bullitt's coming out. Last, I think Thomas's willingness is important here and that's why I think he has the chance to develop into a stronger player against the run. However you may disagree and that's fine.
Then tell me this. Why would you take a small safety who you think MIGHT become a better run defender with the 12th pick of the first round when there are bigger safeties who are almost as good in coverage and are already better run defenders that could possibly be had in the late 1st round to early 2nd round area? Basically, why would you take Earl Thomas 12th instead of taking Nate Allen at 43? The difference between Thomas's coverage and the coverage of Chad Jones/Nate Allen/Reshad Jones is not nearly as drastic as the difference between their tackling and Thomas's tackling is.
You've got me wrong here. I'm not vouching for Earl Thomas at twelve, I'm arguing about his play and potential because you've touched on it with your dislike so many times. Personally, I want an outside linebacker at twelve. As for those guys, Earl Thomas is a better cover safety than Nate Allen. Allen is not always disciplined and doesn't have the range nor does he have the closing burst than Thomas has IMO. He is more physical, I'll say that, but he's not the same player as Thomas when the ball is in the air IMO. Chad Jones is a big hitter and Reshad Jones is not as good of a cover safety as Thomas IMO. Both are talented but they are not as good as Thomas in coverage. IMO, you can develop Thomas's run defending skills, which is why I'd consider him in the twenties if I was picking but I'd take his cover skills over those three.
I think he would instantly upgrade the free safety spot, which is a bigger need than some other positions IMO but I would like to see an OLB there. If not, I would be OK with drafting Thomas. As I've noted, I think he's got very good potential to be a quality DB in this league. You can line him up at cornerback or free safety, much like the aforementioned Melvin Bullitt has done in Indianapolis. As I noted previously, Bullitt has become a quality tackler since he's come into the league because of his solid range and closing burst coupled with his willingness. I think Thomas can do that too but others feel differently.
He is an inch and 3/8s and 3 lbs less than Berry. Is that really enough difference for one to fit their prototype and one not to? I think not.
KB is very persistent. My guess would be any time the name Earl Thomas and Dolphins are mentioned in the same breath, from now till around doomsday. How often did he mention before the 2008 draft that Jake Long could not play LT in the NFL? It would be interesting to see which assertion has the record.
dear alen, what do you think about the rising cost of oil in a post apocalyptic world like in the movie mad max?
Alen, Presuming we plan to play Wake and Anderson at the WOLB spot, any OLB we draft would more likely be destined for the SOLB spot. Do you think this draft is deeper at SOLB types than it is in good coverage FS types? If so, then would our overall value be better to go with Thomas at 12 and take the OLB in the 2nd?
I think we'd be better off taking an OLB, honestly. I think you can get a pretty good safety at 43. I know some disagree with me but I still think Hughes can develop into a SOLB. I've been saying it for a while now because I've seen him hold up blocks before and set the edge.
Earl Thomas 5'10" 208 Ed Reed 5'11" 200 Bob Sanders 5'8" 208 Antoine Bethea 5'11" 203 LaRon Landry 6'0" 210 Ryan Clark 5'11" 205 Troy Polamalu 5'10" 207 I don't see any size issues at all. Thomas is still growing as a safety and would be a very good pick at #12. Those are some good players all around the same size. So he is not small at all, and Troy is a SS.
we can list all the good players in the league and their physical measureables ... but at the end of the day -- this regime 'generally' sticks to its prototypes. their prototype at S is 6' and 200+ ... of course there are exceptions, and if this regime falls in love with Thomas - then sure, its entirely possible .... but until we get some indication that that is true -- then i'm sticking with 6' - 200+ or better, and that does not spell Thomas. Berry, Allen, Burnett. Same for OLBs ... just don't see us picking up one at 6' or 6'1 .... when their preference is at least 6'3" 250+. Morgan, Kindle / Lane, Lang ... as the main choices for the early / late picks ... you can add weight, you can't get taller ....
