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With Marshall on the Dolphins, why trade Ted Ginn?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Lets start with Ginn never being known for not having good hands when in fact he was never known NOT to have good hands until last season.

    Making an occassional down the field catch when I've seen, with my own eyes, Ginn being WIDE open (more than a dozen times) and the Qb did not see him.

    Never going over the middle because he is a punk, when he has caught lots of catches right smack dab in the middle of the field and if he is about to get clobbered, I have no problem with him sliding down to avoid being hit, EXCEPT when it's a really tight game and it's third down, AND the marker is two yards away from him. He has done that plenty, YES.

    Does he shy away from contact? Yep but that means nothing! He is not built to take on every defender. There are plenty of Wr's who do not like contact. Marvin Harrison is a perfect example. What Ginn needs to do is learn let the game slow down for him. He needs to get more YAC by being shifty, not being ballsy and if you beleve he is just not capable of that then I don't know what to tell you. It is very obvious that the game has moved way to fast for him over the last 3 seasons but he has far from SUCKED. He most definitely should not have been picked where he was but he CAN be an NFL Wr. A very solid number 3 and most definitely, he could elevate to a number 2 that contributes to a team.

    Being the 9th pick in the draft, he has not lived up to that! That's not even debatable and I don't appologize for him one single bit. I just see it on a more even keel....
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well put, Ozzy, well put. I don't think there is anything else that needs to be said, except to talk about his cost to the team...HE IS CHEAP. Cutting him really wouldn't free up much space, and it's irrelevant in an uncapped year, anyways.
     
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  3. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Problem with Ginn, and just for the record, i think he'll be much more productive in yardage and TD's as a burner go route reciever than being the go to WR now that Marshall is here.

    However, to have him as your number 3 and a kickreturn guy is one thing, paying him several Million a season is another. Ginn has value no doubt, which could be enhanced by the marshall signing, but at what cost. Could that money Ginn is making be put to use in another area, say like LB, NT, TE or S and find a pure burner only type wideout in the later round of a draft for a combined price of what Ginn is making.

    Thats the problem with Ginn, another reason his trade value is so low. Not nessecarily because of his skill set but because taking him at #9th overall has put unreal expectations on him due to the size of his rookie contract and what FO's would expect in return.

    Ginn at 1/2 cost, sure he would be well worth it. Ginn at a contract that is half of what his is, sure you could get more than a 6th or 7th round pick for him. But no one is paying higher round draft picks for a player who has a unique skill set only but makes top dollar money.
     
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  4. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Ginn is set to make barely over 1 million this seasons. I think he makes 1.8 million in the last year of his contract which is like 2013.

    EDIT: Going to try and find a link for his contract. Found something..
    http://www.cincyjungle.com/2010/4/15/1423055/the-dolphins-are-shopping-ted-ginn
     
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  5. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    My bad, i figured at the 9th overall pick he would be making at least 3-4 mil.
     
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  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've put up his salary a bunch of times. His salary is not a problem. Cap hit maybe with bonuses and what not, but nto salary.
     
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  7. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    i think a lot of people who thinks he has to go assume that he is making a lot more than he is....

    Camarillo makes 30% more than Ginn this year.
     
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  8. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    I know how you feel. I thought the exact same. I heard some people mention he wasn't making that much so I looked it up.

    So I am right there with you. I thought he made MUCH more.
     
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  9. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    no cap hit in an uncapped year

    and even moving forward.....say a cap returns next year and we released him, it would only accelarate the final year of his prorated bonus....which wouldn't be prohibitive.
     
  10. OCDolfan

    OCDolfan a.k.a. LostInPatsLand Club Member

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    So, to those who want to keep Ginn, what do you suggest? An open competition for the #2 spot between Ginn, Hartline, Bess, and Camarillo? See who complements Marshall best?

    I'm coming around to the point of view that this isn't such a bad idea.

    We don't need 6 receivers so we could potentially trade Turner to a team like Seattle with Pete Carroll, his old coach who needs a WR and has said nice things about Turner. Maybe even package Turner and Smiley to Seattle for their early fourth. This would give us extra ammo in the draft to nail down OLB's an NT, and safeties.

    Carroll still a fan of Turner: http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post...stery-receiver
     
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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    More or less, and Ginn also has to fight for the Returner job as well.

    A part of me thinks Ginn and Marshall in a two Wr set would be one hell of a menace to a defense.


    To me, trade Greg C to someplace like Carolina, they lost Moose, and we peddled McCown to them two yrs ago, and they badly need a Possession Wr.
     
  12. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    I see no reason to trade Ginn because of his value to win games in the return game. You're not likely to get that in some 5th round pick.
     
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  13. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    I can't understand why Ginn apologists can't wake up to the fact that he's a bust. He could be standing over a dead body, knife in hand, covered in blood and they would say, "He can't be guilty, he's so fast. He can't go to jail he's our deep threat!"

    People have been saying for over 3 years this kid will be great. Just get him in the right system, just get him the right qb, just get him the right wr opposite him. If you have to manufacture the perfect situation just to make him a decent wr you don't have a player, you have a baby.

    Ginn got outplayed by Bess and Hartline last year. Both those guys gave it their all, played hard every game and are consistently good.

    Ginn, needs Brandon Marshall to make him look good. Brandon Marshall and the Phins don't need Ginn for them to actually be good.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If you let him go in free agency, after his contract is up, then depending on how many UFAs you sign, may get a compensatory pick for him. The Pats get several comp picks every year that way it seems.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Say it however ya want it. 24.9 is a good KR average. It puts him in the top one third of all KRs last year. That is basically the same as 25 yards per return and gets you out well past the 20 on an average. That coupled with his ability to go the distance any time is just fine as a combination.
    IMO, the team needs to concern itself with improving the KR blocking much more so than replacing Ginn. Too many times it was as if no coverage people were blocked and he got smothered at the 15. Feel free to have a different opinion. I'd guess the Ginn haters believe when he gets lousy or no blocking on a return that is his fault too.
     
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  16. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Well to be fair, he's not the only Ginn they drafted at #9 overall...
     
  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yup.

    14 different players last year returned at least one kick for a TD, yet some Ginn haters make it sound like we can find a replacement who can do the same just so easily.
     
  18. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    So, what you're saying is that for the $1,035,833 due this year in salary...he's worth it....I agree.
     
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  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well that settles everything then. We can all now relax and breath easy, because you've assured everyone here. The tired, the downtrodden, the poor blinded and ignorant huddled masses.

    I feel very much comforted knowing that.
     
  20. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Yeah. I just heard this related to the Jets + Holmes situation. This is what is on wikipedia

    So with Holmes, when he hits the FA market he is going to command a fairly decent salary. So the Jets might end up with a better draft pick than they gave up to get him, or should at least get their 5th back.

    Ginn on the other hand, unless he produces in the coming years, isn't going to sign a big FA deal, and thus we aren't going to get a relatively low round pick ( 3rd or 4th ), so we MIGHT get something, but that something isn't going to be much.

    Of course it's hard to know because exactly what we would get because the formulas are not made public, we have no idea what the market will pay for Ginn in the future, or if we will even make the requirements to get a compensatory pick in the first place.

    So the bottom line is we "might" get something if Ginn leaves in FA.
     
  21. Gitrdone

    Gitrdone New Member

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    Bess was not consistently good last year, fumble prone last year. He had a bad stretch of games also, he was just thrown to far more often. But just like Ginn, their drops/fumbles was mainly a last year issue. Part of it is on them, part of it could be because of a QB who throws a fastball(for the drops anyways), compared to Penningtons grandpa throw.
     
  22. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Ginn is only a bust in relation to his draft position. Nobody will argue that he has lived up to being the #9 overall.

    That does not mean he does not have value to this team. He has flashed some talent, albeit inconsistent talent, but still. Any guy who can give you a combination of 4-5 TDs in the return game, end arounds/reverses, receptions, etc. deserves a spot on a team. At least in lieu of a late round pick.

    I haven't seen anybody claiming Ginn is a great player on this board, but I sure see plenty of people ignoring the contributions he has made to the team, e.g. the kick returns, a couple big receiving TDs, a huge game against Buffalo in '08, big running plays for TDs, etc. These things have value. I said it in the Club thread, and I'll say it here. Not one of you would come on this board and claim Ted Ginn does nothing for our team the day after either one of the Jets games last year.
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I think how they perform their 1st season after signing with a new team enters into the equation too. If a player signs a more modest deal, but ends up starting every game and putting up good numbers it effects the comp pick too. Last season we lost Hill and Goodman and signed Berger and Grove. That looks even. Signed 2 lost 2. But Hill and Goodman both started full time, where Berger and Grove started 16 games between them. That was why we got a 7th round comp pick. Had we not signed Grove, and Berger never started at all, based on how much Goody and Hill played, we may have gotten 4s or 5s, or a 4 and 5 for them.
     
  24. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Now that his compensation/salary has been posted, and it's lower than i thought, I agree Larry, he is worth keeping, even as a number three wideout meant to stretch the field deep and for the return game.

    unless you could get a 3rd for him in return, doesn't seem worth letting him go. He can still be valueable to this team in several areas and i do think marshall's presence will free up Ginn considerably.

    I hope Ginn can take advantage of the opportunity this year.
     
  25. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Show one post where anyone says he is worth the number 9, or not a bust at this point. The question is whether he is worth a 5th round pick. The Ginn haters seem to think that if he isn’t the best WR on the team he needs to be dumped, that there is no other way he could contribute. That is silly.
     

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