Ted Ginn haters aren't to blame. Ted Ginn and/or Cam Cameron are. Bottomline. So people can paint this picture however they want, but it doesn't change the underlying truth. If TG performs then we never would have had any of these long drawn out discussion. Who's to blame for his under performance? Not the 'haters'.
Marshall being here won't make Ginn run better routes, catch passes better or be more likely to run headfirst into a defender. Truth is Ginn would have gotten little playing time as Marshall, Hartline, Bess and Camarillo have more of a complete game than Ginn does and barring a miracle that wouldn't have changed next season. As a person I liked Ted Ginn, as a Miami Dolphin I'm glad to see him go. I wish him all the best in San Francisco I hope he blossoms into a solid player for many years to come. The change of pace might do wonders for him and for the Dolphin fan base.
You don't have to run a 4.3 to get 40 yards downfield on a play. Ginn was track fast, but not really football fast because as a WR he rarely got distance between himself and a defender. Hartline and his 4.5 found more distance separation than Ginn did consistently. If Hartline makes it 37 yards with separation and Ginn makes it 40 with no separation on any given play who is really ahead? The defender is just as far away from an underneath pass or a run play in either event. Ginn's speed is overrated.
Let me say this as a postscript about Teddy: I personally would have kept him for that 5th which historically, as I showed elsewhere, never amounted to a single productive player going back to 97 for the fins and 01 for Dallas when Ireland became their scout. However, I understand the enmity towards him to a point and why loads of fans are happy to bid him good riddance. What I don't understand is all the hatred being vented against a guy who was miscast here through no fault of his own, tried his best to be something he's not (although failed), never complained publicly despite all the abuse heaped on him, and did singlehandedly salvage a disappointing season by sweeping the Jest. My natural tendencies are to say "bye" but not heap postmortum abuse on players who are good soldiers and never go out of their way to attract the wrong kind of attention like Porter did. So it's hard for me to fathom why there's so much venon being vented... instead of just saying "good riddance but I wish you well so long as it's elsewhere."
For argument's sake, had he been able to hold onto the 2 balls against New Orleans and Indy, we would've been in the playoffs
Point taken but by the same token, are you hating on Polite for his tripping penalty against Houston calling back Ginn's 62yd TD in a game we lost by 7pts? Who's to say we wouldn't have won and still in the chase when Henne was pulled the last game on a bogus eye injury for us to zoom 10 or so spots up the draft board and get ourselves an easier SOS next season?? I'm not saying he hasn't cost us games, but so has Henning with his playcalling, Torbor and Channing with their less-than-stellar D, etc. I'm also not defending Ginn, but singling him out for the level of venom he's getting to me says more about the "heaper" than it does about Ted.
What happened with Ginn isn't complicated at all- a weak member of a group/team was drummed out because he wasn't contributing nearly enough and, more importantly, he showed fear in a position where fear isn't acceptable. He brought the whole team down in that regard and he is nearly the antihesis of what this FO looks for in a player. Weakness and fear will not be tolerated, and as such Ted Ginn had to go.
Trading Ted Ginn Jr does many things the most important is we finally close the chapter on the black cloud that hung over Miami which was called Cam Cameron, it's over and it's time to move. Some Ginn lovers are now blaming all of us who pointed out Ginns bad play on the field, but then again there were many excuses for Ted nothing was ever his fault. Listen guys if the guy performed at a consistent level he would have never been traded for a 5th rounder and honestly I am shocked we got something as low as a 5th rounder, I thought it would be a 6th or 7th. Let us all come together and focus on the future of this team. Hey I hope Ginn lights it up in San Francisco that way the lovers can say see I told you so, but I doubt it will happen.
I'm not arguing that; I'm only marveling at the unmeasured venomous reaction to his departure - if I didn't know better you'd think he raped someone's wife or sister. That's all. A "good riddance.. better luck in the next life" would have more than sufficed.
Yeah, but fans go overboard all the time. I wish Ginn well, I'm just glad that he's gone. Ginn got off easy compared to Sammie Smith- the fan reaction to him was a disgrace imo. Sammie screwed the pooch a few times and was crucified. I was elated when we drafted Smith- what happened to him and his career is a shame. He seemed like a hell of a nice guy- the fan reaction to his mistakes, especially when his parens were at the game, maybe the Denver one- crushed him.
Too bad you're wrong. Ginn got open plenty of times. He just had some trouble with drops a lot in the middle of the season. Unless you want to call our coach a liar. Ginn was track fast and football fast. Did you not see the Colts game where he caught how many passes? where he burned the DB in a part of the game where nobody was supposed to let him by? That he outran Pennington's arm? Seriously guys. His problem was his hands, and consistency.
Someone mentioning Hartline should be one of the reasons we're HAPPY about trading Ginn. The only thing Ginn does better as a WR is run in a straight line, and end arounds. Hartline sure averages a healthy YPC for someone who's "slow" If you watched the kid play last season you'd know Hartline is not slow at all. Not a blazer but not slow at all.
I guess my only point would be don't confuse the arguments "for keeping Ginn" vs "for moving Ginn" as venum toward TG. Without you citing specific examples it's hard to exactly what you mean by venum. Ginn deeply divided the fan base, but I haven't seen post about people wishing him get hit by a bus, etc.
Sparano did say he was 'happy' with our current WR corps just a couple of weeks ago .... But your point is taken. For the record, I think coaches absolutely lie during the season and the off season. They say what they think is best for the team and the players at the time. That isn't always the truth.
While that may be true, it does say a lot when something goes wrong during a game, 20,000 threads will be made about the mistakes Ginn made during that game and yet almost none about the mistakes other players made. Honestly, I don't remember a thread being made about Bess's or Fasano's fumbles, Crowder's and Torbor's poor performances manning the middle.... Heck, people barely made any threads about Gibril Wilson's peformance in the secondary, and I have forgotten ALL about the stupid tripping penalty that Lousaka Polite commited before Vaark pointed it out. But hey, Ted Ginn's in San Fran. I wish him luck. Now I'm waiting for the next Dolphins' scapegoat.
Spot on, a 5th rd pick who is a long shot in the first place. I mean, come on, dude is gone, but he was worth more than a fifth. As for "Ted Ginn cost us games" Consider: -Dan Carpenter missed a FG in that Colts game, a close one at that, the defense also gave up 27 pts...in 11 minutes... -Saints game So we forget about Sparano blowing the oddball 3rd and goal call? The saints were ready to kick the FG, he threw the challenge flag..they went for the TD instead...defense also gave up what...35 pts in 3qtrs? Let's keep some perspective on all of this.
There were definitely discussion about Crowder, Bess's continued fumble problems throughout the season, Fasano got blamed for the Falcons loss, and Gibril got hammered as well. Maybe you weren't in those threads, not sure, but I was. Do I even need to bring up Dan Hennenings name, the OC? How many fire the OC threads were there this year? Lousaka, he was arguably one of the best FB's in football last year. The guy performed consistently and at a high level. Would many fanbases rake a player like that over the coals for the tripping mistake? A player shouldn't reemed for making a mistake. But if they KEEP making the same mistake then they are going to taken to task for it. Polite wasn't in the latter catagory. Lastly, keep in mind every player you listed was drafted lower or accquired by the Dolphins for a lower draft pick than Tedd Ginn. And where you are drafted sets expectations. Fairly.. unfairly.. doesn't matter that is the reality of it. That is pretty standard. Any teams fanbase is going to act/react the same way. It's not like our fanbase is just illogical and insane. There is something that makes the 1st round pick much more significant than the rest (2nd, 3rd, ect.). I am not sure if it's the money, or what. But your first round pick is held up as the crown jewel by the fan base. Ginn is going to the 49'ers as a 5th round pick. Do you think their fan base is going to have much lower expectations then ours? If he returns 1 kick for a TD the fan base will be pleased as pie w/ the trade. He does that here.. it was expected. TG was a first round pick, that is why there is so much 'venum'. I guess i should have just put that once sentence as my response to the question. Instead I have typed out about 10 paragraphs
By the exact same token Tedd Ginn didn't "win" us games either. Every game were TG made a play other players on the team did as well. The NYJ 2 TD game. JT had a fumble recovery for a TD (HUGE PLAY in that game). So your logic has to go both ways. You can't say TG didn't cost us game A, but then turn around and say he won game B.
The second jest game in 08, Ginn made a supra nice TD reception in the endzone and the two return TD's as well. And the real point is, one player does not win a single game, it is a team sport.
What is he worth then? To some degree you are 'worth' what the market bares. Sometimes markets over and under value things. But it's hard to say Ginn is worth a 2nd or a 3rd. And then you are arguing that we should have held out for a 4th? Is it really that big a deal?
Absolutely, so the people that claim he 'won' games are just as wrong as those that claim he 'lost' games.