1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Has the ghost of Wanny taken over Cameron??

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Now I've been the first one to defend Cameron all season long, but it seems like the moment he installed Beck as the QB his creative offensive schemes were thrown in the garbage. Is it just me or is the progress we made offensively looking worse and worse every week?

    For GODS sake Cameron, let BECK make a couple of plays to give this team confidence. Letting the clock run out to end the half is very Moustache-Ish.
     
  2. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

    399
    2
    18
    Nov 26, 2007
    I can understand the conservativeness . . . I mean look at the conditions . . . and its not like our receivers are helping . . . u gotta manage the game, and Beck is doing that, we are on the road in a tuff place to play. I expect much more from the playbook next week at home.
     
  3. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,072
    22,828
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    Our WRs are playing pretty badly, with exception maybe of Ginn Jr. We should have kicked that field goal on the 2nd try. pisses me off
     
  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,632
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I dont know if you are paying attention, but they've played a rookie quarterback two straight games with no running game and in godawful weather conditions in close defensive games. Conventional wisdom would overwhelmingly be a conservative gameplan.
     
  5. creasy

    creasy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    687
    328
    63
    Nov 26, 2007
    I think Cameron has trimmed the playbook down for Beck. I have read that when rookies start at qb alot of times the coach will cut the playbook back significantly.
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    No, Wanny had much better talent then Cam has.
     
  7. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

    27,269
    44,475
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    NC
    Cam should listen to Wanny's motto of "It's not a sin to punt".
     
  8. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

    399
    2
    18
    Nov 26, 2007
    Yep, this is true, especially on defense.
     
  9. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    For a guy that goes for it on 4th and 2 down by 9 in FG range, for a guy that goes for it every 4th down instead of taking points or changing field position, I don't buy the BS conventional wisdom of being conservative. Either Cameron takes chances and has nothing to lose, or he is a more conservative coach. Killing the clock with 2 minutes left in the first half is not conservative, its MORONIC. Wasting 2 timeouts ever motherfning game in the second half is not conservative its MORONIC.

    Maybe this loss has rubbed me the wrong way, but Cameron is NOT improving as this season wears along.. Where is the offensive spark he provided this team to start the season? Have teams adjusted to the Dolphins going for it on 4th down? Cameron is wearing real thin on me, I'll take a conservative play caller like Cowher that knows how to manage a game and holds his players accountable. Show some spark Cameron or GTFO
     
  10. Finatic8480

    Finatic8480 New Member

    592
    584
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Miami
    I have supported Cam since day one. I know he has no easy task, but we he ever throw the Damn Ball. Take the reigns of Beck, your on the 23 and you decide to run it twice when you offense has not been able to run all night. Cam needs to grow a pair of balls.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Ehh, but then the excuse train starts rolling Kdawg, "We don't have luck" "All our losses were close" or "No starting Rb's" blah blah...

    I'm just grumpy, I liked John Beck, he is learning but has a heck of an arm.

    Defense is starting to come around a bit, but in the NFL it's win or go home.

    And for my .02 cents, that Steelers player shanked Rickey Williams.
     
  12. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

    319
    7
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    OUR WR suck balls and have no damn RB! we need some major boycotting to go on cuz our roster is horrible. 30 bucks says whoever we release will not get signed on another team b/c they are ntn but losers that are starters on our crappy team jsut liek last year with all of our o linemen.
     
  13. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    what is even funnier is that during the "O" intros on ESPN, the offensive line was talking about being the most improved in the NFL... They really backed that up by having 8 guys defend 5 Steeler defenders
     
  14. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    I hope Cameron is renting, not buying.
     
  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,632
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Again, conventional wisdom, that's the call. I think you're the only person complaining about going for it rather than the actual call itself.

    Their 4th down conversion rate has been pretty good. You've also got to remember you are arguing about conservative play calls, which going for it on 4th down is not under any sense.

    I don't buy the BS conventional wisdom of being conservative. Either Cameron takes chances and has nothing to lose, or he is a more conservative coach. Killing the clock with 2 minutes left in the first half is not conservative, its MORONIC. Wasting 2 timeouts ever motherfning game in the second half is not conservative its MORONIC.

    Seriously, what is this? How is he not holding his players accountable?
     
  16. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Disgustipate;
    I doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if a team is down 9, TWO scores, and you KNOW you need TWO scores, you take the points. Especially if it is late in the 4th quarter and you have already BLOWN your timeouts.

    That has nothing to do with conventional wisdom or conservative playcalling. It has everything to do with not making the smart call. Yes we got lucky a few times (Redskins game at the end of the half), but lately, these moves have backfired.

    Cameron acts like he has nothing to lose, but in fact he is KILLING this team with stupid play calling that is costing us points and field position. On top of that, he has changed course to EXTREME conservative play calling. Did you watch the end of the half tonight? Why did Cameron slow the game down with 2 minutes left and the Dolphins driving? If he was so carefree in his attitude, why haven't we seen a f$cking hurry up offense this year? Why is Beck sitting behind center, with no room to manuver on 3rd on 6? Why do we continue to run the ball up the middle to put us in 3rd and long situations?
     
  17. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,463
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I agree completely and was thinking the exact same thing. I have been behind Cameron all along, but I was really upset at how conservative he was last week and just as upset this week. He needs to stop babying him. The Dolphins aren't a team that can just hold it close and win in the end and with Beck at QB that is how they have been playing. Good teams are eventually going beat you when that happens no matter the conditions. Beck tonight was throwing the ball very well and Cam kept taking the ball out of his hands. I understand he's a rookie, but if you don't take some shots your not going to win. Next week we may be without any form of serviceable running back and will be playing a bad team. If he doesn't get the passing game going next week and get Ginn down field every once and a while I'm going to go nuts.
     
  18. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Luxury Box

    7,600
    2,574
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Agreed, what we are seeing on offense is just the learning curve that you have to go through when you are playing a rookie QB. It sucks but but what can you do? The good thing is that if Beck does indeed have what it takes (And I think he does) our offense should slowly open up more and more. This week was still too conservative for my taste but it wasn't as bad as last week.

    And Cam is not Wanny, Cam has far more balls then Wanny ever did. That may or may not be a good thing when it come to 4th down decisions but IMO they are VERY different coaches in nearly every way.
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    And this may what was being spoken about when "We need to give Beck time to develop" is posted, Beck plays conservatively, he takes sacks rather then throw risky passes.

    It does take some time to develop a solid NFL QB, Beck is only taking baby steps right now, for better or worse.
     
  20. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    If Cam had balls, why would we he sit on a 0-0 tie to end the half, when the Fins were driving? Why would he run the ball up the middle, huddle up the O and have the team take their sweet *** time to 1:20 left on the clock?? Does that make sense for an 0-10 team? To be satisfied with a 0-0 tie to end the half like something was just accomplished?
     
  21. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

    399
    2
    18
    Nov 26, 2007
    Because we are deep in our own territory with 2 minutes left and Pitt has all 3 timeouts . . . what do u want to happen? We throw 3 incompletes and give them the ball back with a minute and change (they would get the ball back atleast at their own 40). . . I thought Cam managed the end of that half real well (except for the incomplete at the end which forced us to punt and it almost was blocked). Its a different between being ballsy and being stupid, u don't risk a mistake in that situation and in those conditions on your own 10 yard line . . . I'm sorry.
     
  22. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Sorry, here is an exact recap, as per ESPN of that final drive to end the half:

    "2nd and 7 at MIA 14 (2:00) J.Beck pass deep right to D.Martin to MIA 35 for 21 yards (J.Farrior).

    1st and 10 at MIA 35 (1:30) J.Chatman right guard to MIA 35 for no gain (C.Hampton, Aa.Smith).

    2nd and 10 at MIA 35 (:54) J.Beck pass short right to J.Peelle to MIA 37 for 2 yards (T.Carter) [J.Farrior].

    3rd and 8 at MIA 37 (:11) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass incomplete short middle to D.Martin.

    So let me get this straight.. We finally complete a pass for over 10 yards, and we then proceed to run for no gain.. To make matters worse, we take 30 seconds off the clock from our 35 (not 10 yard line) and basically give up trying to score.... Now talk about clock management and not using timeouts when we need them.. Then using them in the second half cause we can't call our plays on time. Like I said, PATHETIC.
     
  23. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    Yeah, were paying attention.

    Conventional wisdom of a team playing not to win anything I'd say.
    Conservative in these conditions to a degree would be conventional wisdom.
    Conservative to a degree that just about negates and chance of your team making enough plays to actually win the game is another.

    The original poster is 100% correct.
    If Cameron is not going to allow Beck the opp. to make plays then why bother.

    Additionally, the decision to run out the clock in the first half when we had the ball with over a minute to play is inexcusable. Playing not to win period.

    This team came into this game 0-10. Winless and expected to do nothing.
    There is nothing left to protect in being conservative. This team needs to be aggressive in their attempts to to win a game. They have absolutely nothing to lose at this point and that's how they should be playing.

    I've been on these boards a long time.
    I've never posted knee jerk and premature negative conclusions of rookie players or any of our coaches after 1 year. Having said that, I'm sickened by Cameron at this point.
    I see a lot of Wanny in him just like the original poster mentioned.
    It's not just the 0-11 record either, it's the silly decisions Cameron makes.
    From the idiotic Ronnie/Chatman carry splits at the beginning of the year to the decision to start Beck on the road against a tough team like Philly rather than starting the kid at home against a weak Buffalo squad. The degree of how poorly prepared this team is every week, the stupid penalties over and over again and the putrid time management the team has showed in a number of games this year including the Steeler game.

    Cameron has shown the ability to make assinine judgement calls and a lack of being able to get this team prepared enough to win a game. He's got Wanny written all over him. My God even one of the players mentioned to a reporter that his motivation tactics remind them exactly of Wanny.

    IMO, were in trouble with this guy.
     
  24. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    You are 100% correct.

    You'll never see a champion caliber team doing what we did at the end of that half. It's loser football bottom line. Even if they take the time outs to try breaking some conservative running plays, at least your giving your team the opp. to make something happen. Crap... total crap.
     
  25. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Coral, you just sickened me with this post... Thanks for making this day even worse, if your intuition is right, and I'm starting to agree with it, we are headed towards a 2-3 year disaster under Cameron. Boomer (or was it CK)
    , in a VIP post before the season started said that Cameron looked like a deer frozen in a pair of headlights during his preseason press conferences.. It was a cautionary tale of things to come.. And the more I watch this team play, the more I see them going down the drain.. We got goddam lucky on a lot of the 4th down calls early on, and that still resulted in no wins. Luck (like the TD against Washington to end the 1st half) runs out, and now we can't convert and look stupid on a lot of those calls. Football should never be a game of luck or going for touchdowns when you need a FG and TD.. It needs to be a calculated gameplan using the clock, timeouts and field position to increase your chances of winning... And Cameron's luck is running out real fast.
     
  26. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

    399
    2
    18
    Nov 26, 2007
    We were on the road in horrible conditions . . . it wasn't loser football . . . u have a a rookie QB, no Ronnie, no Ricky . . . a beat up Chapman, inconsistent WR's . . . . we weren't able to do anything the whole game, what makes u think we move the ball another 40 yards in a minute to kick a FG, which was no guarantee to make . . . u risk turning over the ball in your own territory in the process.

    I don't mind chancing it, but not on a night like tonight, it would not have been smart at all . . . this is minor compared to the lack of faith in your FG kicker for a 43 yard attempt and going for it on 4th and long . . . Cam was on the pipe with those 2 4th down calls.
     
  27. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

    It's not like a minute isn't enough time to take a shot at moving down the field without taking high risk chances. Also Pitt had started in our territory the entire half anyway and got nothing in return. In addition, even if we turned the ball over at midfield it shoudn't matter according to you since the obvious choice in these conditions is to sit on the ball. I mean if it's such a no brainer then Pitt would have just ran out the clock as well right?
    No they wouldn't, they would have tried to move down the field and score like any other team set with a winning mentality.
     
  28. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

    399
    2
    18
    Nov 26, 2007

    Yea they probably would have, since they have the AFC's leading rusher, a consistent pro bowl WR, and a Superbowl MVP qb . . . and they are playing at home. Not to mention a top 5 TE in the AFC. We unfortunatley don't have the pieces they have to make such a decision . . . we gotta play conservative and not put our D in bad spots all the time.
     
  29. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Kdawg, the losing mentality of this team has an impact on how you view the playcalling. Take a step back for a minute and listen to this:

    We are 0-10. We have nothing to lose. We have a coach that thinks punting is a crime against humanity, unless we need to run a hurry up offense, which in that case punting and running down the clock is his goal.

    Think about smashmouth teams. Teams like the Patsies that can drive down the field in 45 seconds and score at will. How will we ever develop a winning attitude and culture if we act like cowards. And like I said it has NOTHING to do with being conservative and everything to do with STUPID play calling. If Cameron is going to take high risks on 4th down, how freaking complicated is it for him to try to go for a score at the end of the half AFTER YOU COMPLETED A 21 yard pass and have TIMEOUTS TO burn!! How COMPLICATED is that to understand?
     
  30. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

    12,363
    7,091
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    I holding judgment on Cameron but I will say, he is wearing on me.

    He needs to let Beck play. He HAS to know a good chunk of the offense by now, if he does not it is a real issue. Let the kid chuck it. I know the weather screwed us tonight but our only offense came from the passing game.

    Our O-line had a rough time tonight and Beck was getting beat up, even though we had max protect in a lot of the time.

    The kid showed me something tonight though. He can make his reads and get rid of the football on time (most of the time) and he does not turn the ball over. He made some good throws as well...
     
  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,632
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    GODDAMNIT WE'RE 0-10 DO SOMETHING ANYTHING is not really a good argument contrary to conventional wisdom. The gameplan is not the problem, the execution is.

    The same problems are going to exist if he calls the game more aggressive. With the offense in the condition it is in, playing in awful field conditions of the last two weeks, with the rookie QB of the last two weeks, and with the defensive performances of the last two weeks, I dont think anyone would be calling the offense any differently.

    Why? We didnt score in the entire game. What makes you think the team was reasonably going to score in that one minute span which would have forced the playcalling to be extremely one-dimension into a defense that knew it was coming? Not alot of shame in letting that slide given the circumstances.

    Well congrats, you popped your cherry.

    Which has pretty much totally been vindicated and proven to have been a very reasonable thing to do. Brown was not running like he ended up doing in those 1st two games, and we know now that Jesse Chatman appears to be pretty close to a starting quality runningback when healthy, and just as good as Brown was pre-explosion.

    That's not to mention that running Ronnie Brown 20+ times right into the heels of his offensive linemen after spending an entire offseason working on his hesitation and speed hitting the hole is incredibly counterproductive, especially if you know it isnt going anywhere.

    Why? What's happened to Beck? Has his psyche been damaged? Has he been put in a situation where he's had to develop bad habits? Is he playing significantly worse than your average rookie QB starting?

    Like what?

    ,
    You've got no idea if it's just the players here or not.
     

Share This Page