Pat White trying to pack on the pounds (w/vid....sorta)

I'm not going to call you a fake fan or anything like that. I'm not one to question someone's fandom, I find it tacky. However, I'm beginning to wonder why you ARE a Dolphins fan when you routinely talk about how terrible our players are and spew hate against our own team.

 

I can vouch for JS's love of the Dolphins, however he likes what he likes in players and in the Dolphins as a whole in any given season.

The one thing I do question is JS will pick 3 dudes not to like, and then proceeds not to like them...but drops not liking players who perform well..

<cough> Cam Wake<cough>

Last yr he was two for three, White, Ginn, Wake..

And we are fresh out of Ginn!



I think he's hoping we sign a "John Bacardi"..

 

I'm not....I'm singling him out for having been a very bad idea from day one.

I'm singling him out for taking snaps out of the hands of a player (Henne), that is much better under center.

And I'm singling out the FO if they don't realize that enough is enough......let's play some football. Some "professional" football...

 

Because it gives you a chance to wave your pom poms and act like a better fan than me..... I'm a humanifanitarian

Now take off your Pat White WV jersey and wake up

 

I didn't like Wake? Can't remember anything other than wanting him to get more of Porter's snaps....

Who knows..... my tent of hate is complicated

 

"Tent of hate"?



Seriously though, the one thing I do not "get" is how you can see Pat White as such an utter failure..already?

He had 50 snaps...all yr..5 passing attempts:



The game he had the most plays, the loss in NE, he had his most success in 09.

What are you seeing here JS..John Beck jr?

 

lol...I stole the "tent of hate" from Boomer


I see the Pat White "experiment" a failure....the FO's projection as a failure.

When he was drafted, I held back any criticism because I thought he was an intriguing player.... a guy that could be a dangerous all purpose player.

That all ended the first time it was being reported that he was being developed as a pro set QB.... IMO, the FO's vision for him has been a total cluster****

And, I'm just not impressed with him as an athlete at this level and even less impressed with what he and that "little package" has to offer. I don't see where it warrants the time spent in practice working on it.

I'd rather use those snaps to get the ball into the hands of a guy like Marshall, Hartline, Ronnie or Ricky....and let them make something happen.




The only way I'd be comfortable with White at QB, was if he were accompanied by an adult...

 

Not what I was implying there. Just saying that in a lot of threads I've seen you very down on a lot of players. And you're not the only one. I just think that a lot of times, especially with players like Pat White, Patrick Turner, Ted Ginn Jr, that it polarizes the community in such a way that it's reminiscent of "the other site." And that's not what I left there and came here for.

Personally, despite being of differing view points on this manner, I really enjoy talking to you because you do provide some valid points and present thoughtful arguments. And that is certainly what this place is for. I guess I just get tired of the people who have to start their petty arguments every time x, y, or z player is mentioned.

Though that being said, I always welcome constructive arguments with people of differing view points.

 

Fair enough, the one thing I see in White is..he never stopped competiting, but it appeared to me he wasn't prepared to succeed at times I thought he looked like someone who had forgotten their homework at the moment the Teacher asked for it.

Meaning the game was too fast for him, and the "throwing mechanics" work they did was not ingrained, so White had to make a fast, accurate decision as well as trust his "new" throwing motion to deliver the ball and that overloaded him imho.

He's had a entire offseason to reflect on what he did incorrectly which makes this Training Camp and Preseason important for him.

The way I see it, he cannot throw the ball much worse than he did last training camp, the question then becomes...by how much will he improve?

I'm betting that Pat will improve by a large, noticible margin.

 

I agree whole heartedly with you. Pat White needs a lot of work. And I'm in no way trying to say that he's someone who's going to go out there and light it up this year. But he has the potential.

 

Well, I really want to see White step into a throw and Drivvveee a throw into a tight window, and when he runs I want to see more confidence in his running style as TBH..it also looked like he had never been schooled in a running back drill.

Imho, he can do both things, there is no reason to think he cannot.

 

Pat White will be given ample opportunity to prove his worth and his value to this football team. And, Pat White has a lot to prove IMO. For his sake (and ours), I hope he is bulking up. Otherwise, I doubt he ever makes it as a pro football QB.

JMHO...

 

a lot of work indeed
my biggest fear is god forbid henne goes down and the coaching staff sticks to their guns on pennington staying at the # 3
that leaves thigpen or white
of course we will know more as time goes on
i'd rather see thigpen
white as starter in that scenario would be a disaster

 

When I start making posts that consist of nothing more than:

"Pat White sucks, cut him"

Then you would have a point.... I'm not of that group.

And no matter what team you're for or what site you are on....there will always be players that will at least some what polarize the community. Nature of the beast and all....

 

Maybe....I mean he was a gamer in college and unlike ol Teddy, he's not scared to be out there, regardless of size.

But after giving this situation much thought, I'd be more inclined to cut our losses and move on in another direction and away from all the gimmick stuff. We no longer need that crutch....

Another concern is that roster spot.....I think when it comes down to the final 53, in order to keep White, we'll need to cut loose someone with more to offer

 

White is small...but wirey!

Options are better than "no choice", the Dolphins invested heavily into the WC and Pat White now it is up to them to turn it into something worth using.

 

what has he been doing the last 4 months

 

The kid played one year, and was getting practice as a 3rd string QB. From what I understand he had very limited reps with the starting receivers (could be wrong, thought I remember reading that).

Yes, he's a project, but it's not like he's costing us cap space. I'm fine with them trying to tweak him in the offseason, or bring him in if Henne falls out of rhythm or if something isn't working and they want to switch it up.

I will say though that I don't like the idea of him coming into the game when our offense is already on fire. That seems rather stupid to me. But given the kids heart and guts, you seriously can't just write him off after a rookie season as a head coach. The kid has what you want in a football player mentally. If he can be coached up he could be something special. I mean he clearly WANTS to succeed and from everything you read about him is a class act (remember the Pats game where he was the only one to go and shake hands/thank all of the visiting Soldiers?)

Do we really need to let another amazing player slip our grasp? I'm not saying he definitely will be, but there's some intangible potential there. So long as they don't work on him as a project at the detriment of Henne I'm down with it.

 

Or..... up to them to realize that they got a little too cute and now that we actually can run the ball and our new QB can push the ball down field.....maybe it's time to put away the chemistry set and quit trying to re-invent the wheel.

I'm ok with the WC....but Pat White just isn't suited for that formation. I can't think of one skill player that he would be an upgrade over in that package....not one.


And to touch on something else you said:

You do realize that had Pat White walked onto the field as a UDFA, he would have likely never seen more than a week of practice before he was dismissed...... and the only thing he really has going for him is the investment made in him?

Because without that investment.... it would be hard to make a case for him on the 53. Hell even with the investment it's hard, IMO anyway..

 

you're denying White's overall athleticism quite a bit. Put him at WR, he's instantly our fastest wr on the team. At qb he can be a weapon once we use him right. He could return kicks if we asked him to.

The investment was made in him because teams saw value in him as a player. The guy is a hell of an athlete and could do great things for us yet.

 

He wouldn't be our fastest WR. He's really not all that fast. He only ran a 4.55 at the combine. Here take a look. While that's not to bad for a QB, it certainly isn't anything to write home about.

 

I was on that boat too at one time....it started taking on water so I jumped ship and swam for shore...lol

The fact is.....sometimes great college players just aren't cut out for the NFL. I think Pat White is one of those...

 

he went to the combine strictly as a QB though. probably didn't even train for the 40 at all. making that 4.55 more impressive. the guy ran 4.4s in college and im positive he could do it again if thats what was asked of him.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=9753&draftyear=2009&genpos=WR

AND even at 4.55, White still managed a faster 40 than Brandon Marshall, Patrick Turner, Greg Camarillo, and Davone Bess. Only Hartline had a faster 40 time...at 4.52.

 

KP, no one is saying he 's gonna be a pro qb, or projects to be that, most of us projected that before he was selected... Were a hybrid offense at this point experimenting and leading the league in this category. imo, we should continue to look into and develope it, as long as ronnie brown is on this team, iam gonna give Pat one more year to flash in the way i need him to, WCQBX.

IMO,The mistake that the regime is makin is using precious practice reps on Pat in the proset...train the cat within the parametrs of the WC, let him learn the skill positions within the formation as well.

 

I dont think this regime has intensions in running the spread offense..

it all starts with ronnie running the formation behind that oline {smashcat}, everything else should be related to creating space for him, and his oline..if Pat takes the field, then Keep Ronnie on the freakin field with him. let the position become interchangable on the spot.

 

I think this is another arguing point.....how much of this stuff is enough and when does it detract from the base offense?

Another thing is...... how do you see PW fitting into the wildcat? Because I just don't see where he fits. He's just not physical or fast enough to be an upgrade over anyone we currently utilize in the package....IMO anyway.

 

JS is one of the smartest, most entertaning posters on this site, just because he does'nt want Pat white on the team does not make him any less of a fan then you or I.. He has NOTHING in common with the other site, nothing..

I agree with him about the mistake the regime is making about giving him reps at Proset...He is a formation specific player that needs to be trained as such to have the sucess that some of us project..

 

how much is this stuff enough you ask?..first of all, to compare what we have done with the wildcat in the last 2 years to "stuff, is disrespectful to what we have accomplished....\

I have no idea what your talking about, detracts from the base my ***. Its a power running formation that is averaging about 6 yards a play over the course of 2 seasons.. it completely puts the ball in the hands of one of the most talentd players in the league, and lets him make reactionary decisions that usually result into positive plays for the offense...please dont come back at me with the whole, "but it takes Chad out of his rhythm" angle... cause that's all bs imo..

I may be wrong ,but I dont think you have vision for the formation?

 

Well I'm fine with the WC......I just can't see adding yet another package. "WildPat", "Pistol" or whatever.... that was never what I thought I was signing on for when I was one of the bigger supporters of the WC.

My concern is that there is a point where we may be taking this experimentation too far. It was born of necessity and now with the personnel we have, I just can't see where it's needed as much....in fact, I think it may be at the point where we need to pull back and just let our base offense do it's thing, aside from a handful of WC plays per game.

And while I'm sure we could get some production out of it...... I'm just not sure we would get anything more from it than we could get out of the base. And for that reason, I'd prefer not spending the practice time on it.

Another aspect is Pat White the player.... having a hard time seeing any real value other than his ability in the open field. And......also have a hard time seeing us being able to put him in that position other than as a WR. Personally, his lack of size and speed has me thinking he'll be playing minor league baseball within a couple of years.

 

In short...4 QBs...
Which one doesn't make it to the season?

 

Pat White has a future w/ the Dolphins, just not @ conventional QB
he will never be one of the three QB's we officially carry on the roster
he could however be an emergency BU or a Spread-SingleWing QB

however

he'll have to make his bones elsewhere on the team:
1) SpecialTeams as a holder (opening up run/pass options) or maybe a* return specialist
2) as a ScatBack (opening up passing options on either end of the reception)
3) WR or Slot

the guy is a tremendous athletic ability & football talent,
his value doesn't depend on playing QB in the conventional offense.
he is a keeper, only question is where will he contribute best for the team?
unfortunately, last year the coaching cadre did not attempt to find out
the answers to these questions, this year he will have to placed correctly

 

Last yr in Denver McDaniels made a WC style formation work with Kyle Orton, I could see White having that same role in Miami, and in Denver they had Brandon Marshall as well...yet they successfully used the "Wild Horse (Bronco?)" so it can be done successfully.

The real question imho is whether or not White's arm shows signs of life, outside of the overthrow of Ted Ginn on opening day White's other 4 passes were not positive nor negative one way or another "but" matched to his spraying the ball around in Training Camp and White's perceived value as a passer is at sub Feidler levels.

 

There are several concerns with White.

First, this regime has been saying that he's an NFL QB. They've never wavered from that stance. They've more or less forced that position on him thruout last season. What we've seen from him has been far from that NFL QB picture. Granted we don't see him everyday in practices or whatever, but nothing he's done so far has translated to the field.

Second, it also appears that he isn't a WCxQB type player that was expected of him, at least by us fans. He struggled running the WC formation. He couldn't run thru the middle, didn't have the speed to get outside, missed on his pass attempts from the WC, didn't seem to see the field either. Now some of that could be rookie eyes, but he showed little to no improvement as the season progressed either...

Third, he's shown no ability to play any other 'slash' type role at this level either. He's not a WR, not a RB, not a return (STs) player. So, what is he ?? Putting on the pounds, if he's really doing that, won't make a difference if he doesn't find and be successful, even as a role player somewhere.

Y'all tell me, where is that ??

 

Friend Larryfinfan:
if you're right in your assessments, it w/a wasted pick & he's gone after the season
lets' hope this time you're wrong & my optimism prevails for the good of the team
any way you look @ it, it takes @ least two years, normally, to skin a cat in the NFL

we're dealing w/ PoloPonies not RaceHorses got to have more than one trick

 

To me Pat White is nothing more then "Potential" right now. Hopefully he turns into something. I don't think he's here after this season if he doesn't.

 

If you go back and look at White's snaps last year, he consistently made the correct read, which is really the first step for him.

Right now he just needs to work on execution after making that read. No doubt in my mind he has the ability to throw the ball more accurately than he did last season. He just needs things to slow down, so he get his feet set and use proper mechanics. I would personally be more concerned if he was accurate but making the wrong reads.

 

let the kid wear his gloves...gloves help players who have small hands..

 

Bro, he can wear gloves, WVa jockstrap, pour candy sprinkles on his helmet before a game. dead lifts and military presses until he throws up, I don't particularly care what he has to do to make himself a better player.

Just Do It!



http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...f-as-pat-white-looks-to-gain-grip-on-passing/

 

Sub Feidler? Heck he is sub Rick Norton for chrissakes. He hasn't shown he can even pass on the level of a Joe Kapp, the all time king of the ugly pass.

 

See, that is the difference..I love Joe Kapp...dude was a maniac..


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiVlcjWBj00"]YouTube- Joe Kapp[/ame]


And a winner wherever he played..BC..Minnesota..