1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Pat White, still a prospect or more of suspect.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, May 7, 2010.

Pat White, prospect or suspect?

  1. Pat White is more of a suspect draft choice

    57 vote(s)
    59.4%
  2. Pat White is more of a Prospect

    14 vote(s)
    14.6%
  3. Too early to tell either way, somethings I like, others, not so much

    25 vote(s)
    26.0%
  1. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Well lucky for me I have plenty to spare.....give me your email, I'll send you some.
     
    felly smarts likes this.
  2. felly smarts

    felly smarts New Member

    1,351
    257
    0
    Jun 24, 2008
    LOL...as soon as you can unscrew your lips from Padre's butt, I'll be more than happy to. :wink2:
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  3. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    No need for jealousy.......he's got two butt cheeks, I'll scoot over
     
    Bpk and felly smarts like this.
  4. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Does anyone really think that White could develop into an NFL QB ?? I'm sorry, I just don't see that. Very athletic. Is he football smart ?? Not so sure. He struggled with the minor roles they planned out for him last season and according to Sparano struggled some with learning the offense, which is probably why he struggled in the WCxQB role as well.

    If he stays around as our #3 QB, then we've not only wasted a 5th rounder on yet another QB (Thigpen), but also lose out on what Thiggy just might be able to bring to the table. Penny won't be around forever. I thing we all would feel much better with Thiggy backing up Penny if Henne went down for whatever reason than with White backing up Penny. Now that's a scary proposition. Thigpen is a guy I think could develop in to a solid, if not very good backup and with an offseason plus some in the offense, he may just have something to show that makes this decision of White/Thiggy/Penny even more interesting than what many here seem to think now.

    I agree tho with two things you said...first, I too think we'll see less WC this season, assuming Henne continues to improve and Marshall adds what we think he will and second, I see White staying. Much to my personal chagrin, but he was the #44 pick overall a year ago. They won't let him go this soon, even tho I think his staying will cut short someone else who may develop into a role player or decent backup...but it's obviously not my choice. At this point, I just don't see that as the smartest move they could make, but there is still time to see what develops...
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    hmmmmmm, THIS IS BLASHEMY!!!...PADRE?..YOU BASTERD YOU..AFTER ALL THIS TIME I FIND OUT THE TRUTH!!!

    lol..
     
    padre31 likes this.
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    To answer the original question....he's a 2nd round prospect for a innovative hybrid offense thats in its embryotic stages..

    some of ya'll need to deal with your wildcat issues...were going there whether you like it or not....jmo.
     
    Bpk and padre31 like this.
  7. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

    28,030
    13,840
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    So. Cal
    Great post Brother! I repped yet instead of thanking your post.:up:
     
    Larryfinfan likes this.
  8. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    I'm banking on the coaches being smart enough to realize that we now have a solid base offense and that it's time to put away the crutch...

    The wildcat is fine....but Pat White has zero to do with the WC.

    And being drafted in the 2nd round doesn't make him a "2nd round prospect".......it makes him a HUGE reach.
     
    Coral Reefer likes this.
  9. felly smarts

    felly smarts New Member

    1,351
    257
    0
    Jun 24, 2008
    LMAO!!! Good stuff...I had no comeback.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  10. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    You really think Penney is an insurance policy? I don't think he will be active on week one. I think he was brought back to counsel Henne and in return he gets to rehab for next season. If we get to the point that Penney is our starter then I think we are in trouble.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  11. NolePhin

    NolePhin Look out for D-Bess

    1,007
    651
    0
    Apr 27, 2009
    Davie, FL
    I always think about weird scenarios like this, but hear me out.

    AFC Championship game, Pat White makes a game changing play. (Essentially causes us to win the game because of a specific play he made)

    We go to Super Bowl and win.

    IS Pat White worth that 2nd round pick?
     
    Bpk likes this.
  12. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member


    Thanks Bro...jmho...
     
  13. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    For that game, perhaps, but how many losses can he cause if makes poor plays or simply can't play up to the rest of the offense ?? The reality is that's what he's shown so far, not the hypothetical situation you mentioned....

    I guess the easy way to say this is....If we're in that same game, and he makes a specific game changing play that allows the other team to win and then we don't go on to the SB is Pat White worth that 2nd round pick ??

    The reality is that if we win or lose a game on ONE play, it's usually not the fault of that specific player that causes the play to either fail or succeed. This is a TEAM sport and it takes all 53 members of the team to be successful, so singling out one player isn't reality...
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I was going to bump your "Multidimensional Offensive Theory" thread bro..:wink2:
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    You like that one Pod, lol.......we will continue to evolve it, and I will continue to defend it to the people who say its a "fad" or a "gimmick"....you would think after 2 years folks would get it...

    Watch the Broncos..the Eagles...the Browns, and the Miami freakin dolphins for proof of that theory...
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts

    Oh I agree, there are many many Dolfans and Writers who follow the team who think BMarsh is some form of Neo from the Matrix..it ain't so, we will run the ball, we will run the ball with power, we will run the WC, where White fits into the mix, if at all, remains to be seen.

    Check out D Hyde's thoughts on the future of the 'Cat:

    I read that and shake my head, Hyde is a sweet heart of a dude, but notice he misses that even with BMarsh in Denver, they still ran the "Wild Horses" form of the Wildcat..

    The Panthers are going to run it as well, that is why they traded up to grab Armanti Edwards the Qb/Wr from App State, but of course the football media is all over that angle..err...wait a minute...say "Jimmy Clausen" 5 times
     
    Bpk likes this.
  17. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Wildcat is fine... it suits our physical offense.

    The "MildPat" not so much....
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    iam confused, is the crutch the formation, or Pat the player?, are you sure you dont have issues with the formation? your post sounds a little contradictory.
     
  19. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Both actually... I believe they grossly over-estimated White's capabilities and obviously ignored his limitations. Not only was he a ridiculous reach, their vision for him and the time wasted teaching him the pro set, was possibly worse than the pick itself.

    Which brings me to the formation.... we're not talking about the WC here. Pat White has nothing to do with that package....that's all Ronnie Brown. I'm talking about the "MildPat".... if he and that little package of his is what you two are referring to as this exciting new "Multidimensional offense", I have a lot issue with that. I want that stuff canned yesterday....

    We need to keep with what we do and that's play physical football....and what he and that package of his have to offer, isn't enough to warrant the practice time. And for the life of me, I can't understand how it makes sense to install a package that features one of the lesser talents among your skill position players.....the guy can't even crack the line up for the WC.

    IMO, this Pat White experiment can end now or it can end badly and embarrassingly.
     
    Larryfinfan and MrClean like this.
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Because every 1 hour spent on the WildPat, the opponent's defense has to spend 4 trying to prepare for it?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d813f826a&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


    Disagree, the WC needs more of a passing element to evolve.


    We'll see, 11 days until Vet Mini Camp, we'll see what happens.

    Of course I think Pat White will improve, you on the other hand will email www.travelocity.com links to Ireland and Sparano along with notes stating "Pat White would enjoy the weather in Houston right now..."

    Because you're just a helpful guy that way..:D

    And as far as I'm concerned White should be given more time to show what he can do, but Training Camp will be a strong indicator of how that will go with him.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    White had no TDs last season.
     
    Bpk and jetssuck like this.
  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Henne as a rookie: 7 completions in 12 attempts. 67 yds, and a 74 QB rating
    White as a rookie: ZERO completions in 5 attempts, for ZERO yds and a 39.6 QB rating. I'm sure Henne is really embarrassed. :lol:
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Going there, we are riding a stud horse named Ronnie Brown, not a Shetland pony named Pat White.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

  25. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    Two points make Pat White not worth discussing.

    1) Ronnie Brown is the one that MADE the WildCat work. He ran it to perfection and when Brown went down you'll notice so did our WC. If we continue to "develop" that package it will be Brown that is the focus not Pat "Erkel" White.

    2) I'd be willing to bet, that if Henne shows marked improvement this year with the addition of Brandon Marshall, we will all see much LESS of the WildCat rather than more. Deservedly so as well. Everyone seems to forget the WildCat's development came more as a need to take advantage of us having two top RB's and little proven talent in our passing game. That was the ONLY reason, not because the league was going to be "transformed" by this package.
     
    MrClean and jetssuck like this.
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    White produced 3 TD's and 1 2pt conversion as the WC Qb.

    Henne threw 12 passes in a meaningless blowout loss to the Cardinals.

    You tell me who was more effective as a Rook Mr C..
     
    Steve-Mo likes this.
  27. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    What on earth are you referencing Pad?

    White had zero TD's.
    Which also correlates with the number of completions he had and his overall effectiveness on every single play but one.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Ck or Fineas posted up in club that with White as the WC Qb we scored 3 TD's and had 1 2pt conversion.

    I can recall RW scoring on the jet sweep with White as the "Qb", which illustrates how difficult it is to correctly say one way or another with White, some things worked out well, other things didn't work at all as he was NOT a conventional Qb in any sense of the term.

    The downside was the WildPat only produced 3 yds per play.
     
  29. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    To be fair based on the "PRODUCTION" of either Henne as rookie, or Pat White as a rookie and their contribution to points.....in the AZ game Henne did handoff to Ronnie Brown for a TD on his drive. So he should be credited with a drive that produced a TD as well.

    Overall, the comparison is silly to begin with.

    Bottomline some have already made up their mind on Pat White and any future value and contribution he can have based on his performance as a rookie. Thats it.

    This FO has not, so from where I sit, neither have I. Pat White has the chance to prove some wrong, and some still wont change others minds I am sure....the beauty is that it doesnt matter either way. He continues to be part of this organization and performs when given the chance that leads to points on the board, if so I will still be happy. He played his role, and will continue to as long as the FO and Staff decides his value exceeds Fans expectations or opinions.
     
    Bpk and MrClean like this.
  30. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    White played QB in the WC?
     
    Bpk and MrClean like this.
  31. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

    4,348
    1,436
    113
    Jan 14, 2009
    I don't think it's really fair to attribute touchdowns to Pat White when all he did was hand the ball off.
     
    Coral Reefer, Bpk and jetssuck like this.
  32. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Especially when he all he does is pop in for a play or two here and there.....

    Jake Long blocked for every TD scored last season...... does he get credit for them as well?
     
    MrClean likes this.
  33. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    no but he gets his credit for his part in the plays............
     
  34. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Well, its fair, if you are talking about PRODUCTION out of a given package and thus the success of said package or formation, then, yes, it is fair. Its simply a single measuring stick, not the end all be all. PW was a rookie thats also is a fair part of the equation, but, yet some want that to be the end all be all of his potential here...so its all fair really.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  35. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Well giving him "credit" for being on the field.......and the way Pads misrepresented it by making it a stat line, are two diff things.

    There's a lot of players on this team that were "present" when TD's were scored..
     
    Coral Reefer, Bpk and MrClean like this.
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    And therein is the problem with forming an opinion on Pat White, one says "oh, that doesn't count" the other "the WC is a part of the WildPat, it counts as what it produced".

    For myself, that was a part of the Offense within the Offense, White's presence on the field helped to produce those scores, because when Ricky Williams played WC Qb it did not work...recall RW threw that Int in the endzone in Buffalo as WC Qb?

    Never happened with White as the WC Qb, that package produced 4 scores and drew a 12 men on the field penalty which is decent production for 52 plays.
     
    Bpk and BigDogsHunt like this.
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Only 1 WC Qb though JS, and that was Pat White his presence forced the defense to hesitate to read whether or not it would be a Qb keeper, a pass, or a jet sweep handoff.
     
    unluckyluciano likes this.
  38. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,245
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    The thing with P. White is: He has to be able to first complete some long throws or else it defeats the whole purpose of having him in there. He has to be able to stretch the D and open up the field in order to do the things like he did in college. He can not just come in and take a few run plays and that's it. That way he will have a stacked, or at least, full box to run into just like any RB and he is definitely not suited to just do regular running plays. He will get killed. He has to have space to be effective at all.

    I loved the idea of having Pat and what he could have done and brought to the table, but I just think that he's simply too small. I don't think he'd be able to handle what he would need to do in the NFL. It sucks. I wish he was a bit bigger because I really like him. I like his attitude and the kid is just a winner. You can't ignore what he did in college, but I'm afraid he's just not big enough to get away with it in the Pros. I hope I'm wrong.

    I always liked and understood what they were thinking when they drafted White, but my main concern was always his size. I liked the plan or the theory and still do, but I always expressed his size as my main concern. He's just not big enough to handle the blows he will receive in the NFL. He's not used to running like that. It looks like my one concern is, in fact, his main problem.

    I would bet that part of Parcells & co's idea when they drafted White was not to just run and expand the WC, but to run other types of spread formations. I always used to watch games and when the the QB would drop in the shotgun and couldn't find an open receiver and would decide to run the ball, there was almost always an open field and the QB usually would get, at least, 8-10 yds, usually more. I would bet that this was part of there thinking when they drafted White.....to take advantage of those situations. I always wondered when some team would come up with certain schemes or plays to take advantage of that. I admire that they tried, but Pat is just too small. He doesn't have the girth. It may be a failed experiment, but I understand what they were trying to do.

    I'm still holding a tiny bit of hope for Pat.:wink2:
     
    Bpk likes this.
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    you know I know that..its not about taking over, just about complementing the star..
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I know he made the wildcat work, its dead without him imo, like I said to Mr.C, Iam just trying to find a way to use the skillset of Pat white into the scheme, all for the purpose of making ronnie brown play against an honest defense..

    Its all about smashcat for me.
     
    padre31 likes this.

Share This Page