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Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by The G Man, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    The teaser showed us that Sandra is going to finally tell Russell what she really thinks about him. Stupid move IMO. She could have just jumped onboard with the likely new alliance and let them dump Parvati and been able to retain her idol for later. It seems unlikely she'll be able to keep her idol past next week's episode now. No way she wins the immunity challenge. I'm shocked that she would show such poor judgment as sneaky as she's been up to this point. But maybe she has something up her sleeve again.
     
  2. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    At this point, i would think Russell's keister is in the sling. He had better win immunity altho I disagree that he's not necessarily a heavy favorite to do so. It would depend on the challenge involved. Anyway, it's obvious his goose is cooked with Parvati, so he "realigns" with Rupert and Colby. However, he screwed them over once bad and they're on to him now and shouldn't be true to him. So, IMO, that is 2 votes for him and Parv makes 3. Sandra, on the other hand, while being the wildcat, will probably not play the idol yet unless she figures not to be voted for. But, if she has any inkling at all, out it will come and some poor schmoe with only 1 vote will go.
     
  3. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Rupert and Colby will probably stick with Russell long enough to get the female villains out of there IMO. At least long enough to send Parvati away. It's not like they have to trust Russell. They know he has to vote with them now and if he doesn't for some reason there's nothing they can do anyway.
     
  4. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Could be but like i said, Rupert and colby got burned by Russell before so they have no real need to "trust" him now unless it's to set up a blindside for him. Jerri may be the only one Russell has left now. He's pissed Parvati off now and Sandra has already wanted him gone. But of course, no one knows how the chips will fall.
     
  5. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I definitely think Russell's head is on the chopping block. But, Muscle makes a good point...if Ruppert and Colby are thinking strategically, they could use Russell long enough to get Parvati off, then turn the tables on him. That would leave Sandra and Jerri to compete against in the final four. I guess it all depends on how bad they want to get rid of Russell. And, IMO they want him gone bad. Especially Ruppert.

    Then there's the matter of a hidden immunity idol that's still in play, and how Sandra wants to play it. I could see her slipping it to Parvati if she catches wind of a plan to vote her out, in an effort to get Russell out. Yeppers...Thursday's episode should be very interesting and very entertaining indeed.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO Russell is smarter than both Colby and Rupert. But Russell is not as smart as Parvati and maybe Sandra. I think the smart play for Colby, Russell and Rupert would be to target Parvati first. However, I could see Russell going after Sandra in one of his "nobody crosses me" tantrums.

    Rupert has shown some strategic thinking of late so maybe he'll try to work with Sandra, Parvati and Colby to double-cross Russell. Thinking that he has a better chance in the immunity challenges against the women, although Parvati is no push-over. Either way, the best strategy for Rupert and Colby is to have either Parvati or Russell voted off this week.

    If the immunity idol comes into play this week it could be interesting. I don't see Sandra as trusting Parvati enough to give it to her, but maybe she'll hate Russell enough to do it as part of a plan to get him out.

    Person they should most want off:

    Parvati: Russell
    Sandra: Russell
    Jerri: anybody but Russell
    Rupert: Parvati or Russell
    Colby: Parvati or Russell
    Russell: Parvati

    It the Survivors are thinking the same, it looks like it will be either Russell or Parvati.
     
  7. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    Nope. Russell is going to be relatively safe. He's the hands-down favorite in the remaining immunity challenges, and Rupert would be the guy to go if it comes down to Sandra playing her idol.

    What's going through Colby and Rupert's minds is that while Russell screwed them, it's in their best interest to take him to the final. They likely think the jury hates Russell and would never give him the money. Who better to go up against?

    Parvati knows that Colby and Rupert (especially Rupert) will beat her in the final, so she's going to try to get them out. If she finds out Sandra has the idol, they'll use it to oust Rupert, not Russell.

    Next to go is Rupert or Sandra.

    If it's Rupert first, then Sandra is next.

    If it's Sandra first, then it's Parvati next.

    Then the final immunity challenge will be won by Russell, and it'll be either Parvati or Rupert who goes.

    Final 3 will be Russell, Jerri, and Colby.
     
  8. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't see Rupert as the target at all, especially not over Russell.
     
  9. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    The only thing that saved Rupert 2 weeks ago was the fact he had fooled everybody but Sandra into thinking he had the idol. The only thing that saved Rupert last week was the fact that Russell wanted Danielle gone.

    Rupert is the "people's champion" of Survivor. Everybody loves the freakin' guy.

    You mean to tell me that anyone except Colby is going to WANT to go to the final with him? No way.

    THAT is why he's a target. Rupert won't make the final, that's almost a guarantee.
     
  10. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    But right now the biggest threats are the people running things, Russell and Parvati. You don't get rid of those guys then you don't even have to worry about the final. And even if you did get to the final two, Russell and Parvati have been clearly running the show all along. There will be at least as much sentiment that "they deserve it" as there may be for the "people's champion", which would only really matter if "the people" were voting rather than the jury.
     
  11. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, that could play out like that. However, if Russell does make it to the final 3, he'll be done there as he was the last time. he just had too many double dealing back stabs that affected nearly everyone on the jury. I wouldn't count out Sandra going to the final 3 and she likely wins it again as she did on her first series. IMO tho, if either Rupert or Colby make it to the final 3, they'll win.
     
  12. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    But the other people would have to recognize that Parvati and Russell are the biggest threats. I don't think Rupert and Colby are afraid to go to the final with either of them.

    Russell would've won the last season HANDS DOWN if the jury voted like that. But that's just not what happens in jury votes. The person who DESERVES it almost never wins. Most people just have a hard time admitting that they were bested. They are incapable of putting their personal feelings aside and vote for the deserving candidate, and will vote for the turd that didn't piss them off instead.

    I agree. If either Colby or Rupert make it, they'll win. They did NOTHING to deserve it, but like I said above, that's just how it works. It's sad, but true.
     
  13. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think they would have to be blind not to realize that Russell and Parvati are the biggest current threats. They are the ones who have been deciding who goes home most weeks. That much power makes you an obvious threat.

    I think the deserving player often wins unless he has just been pissing people off left and right. Allegedly, Russell taunted the jury members after they were voted off each week, but it wasn't shown on T.V. That was why he lost. I don't know if he's done that this time or not. But I don't think Parvati is that stupid. I have no trouble believing that she could be seen as the deserving winner if she made it to the final.
     
  14. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm not sure why Rupert and Colby didn't anything to win. If they win then apparently they did something right. not the way Russell plays and Russell relies on too much just to get to the final 3 but that's it. Russell will eventually lose by having pissed off the wrong ppl, the jury. Rupert and Colby can get votes from any jury member for the most part.
     
  15. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Rupert's faking he had an immunity idol by putting a rock in his shorts is enough to deserve winning the whole damn thing as far as I am concerned. That was freakin' brilliant!

    JMHO...
     
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  16. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    They didn't do anything to win. They didn't control the game with their strategy like Russell and Parvati, and they didn't win challenges. They made no moves to get ahead.

    Sure, they stayed true to their alliance and didn't backstab anyone. So what. In the end, the fact still remains that the only reason why they are still there is becuase somebody else (Russell) chose not to vote them off in lieu of somebody else.

    To me, that's no reason to win. Relying on somebody else to not vote you off is WEAK and shouldn't be rewarded.
     
  17. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    The show's not called "Winner"; it's called "Survivor."
     
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  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I thought that was a brilliant move. I even read a blog by Jeff Probst where he called it a brilliant move.
     
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  19. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Outwit, outplay, outlast. There are many ways to be chosen the sole survivor. Rupert and Russell are two completely different people. And, as such, they play the game differently. IMO, you can't say one is more deserving than the other. If one, or both make it to the finals, however they got there worked for them. Rupert's way was to stay loyal to his alliance, and be true to his word. Russell's was to lie, back stab and blindside. Hey, whatever gets you further in the game, and still lets you sleep at night, right?

    Having said that, I get where you're coming from. You don't want to see someone win it just because they rode someone else's coattails to get to the finals, then win it in a popularity contest. I get it. And, it's happened before, I know. And, I haven't necessarily liked it when it has. But, guess what...it's all part of the game. There are different ways to play, and different ways to win. And, IMO there's no right or wrong way. It's all about, well...survival. I think that's why the show has been so successful, and why it's still my favorite reality show.
     
  20. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    But they are still there, yes?
     
  21. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    Yes. But the only reason why is that Russell chose to vote somebody else out instead of them. THEY have nothing to do with the fact they're still there.
     
  22. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Both have had the heads on the block yet both are still there. Colby was aligned only with Tom in the beginning and he successfully changed strategies. Rupert pulled the most amazing feat with the rock in his pocket. He was on the line at that time and conned the others and stayed. But, I understand that they had NOTHING to do with their being here.
     
  23. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, Parvati wins immunity and put the kabosh on the guys plan. Not that russell wanted have flipped anyway because they all know Rupert and Colby have to go before any others have a chance at winning. So, now I expect Colby to be the next probably jerri or Sandra. at this point, the girls may not vote Russell now cuz they know he'll not win anyway so it increases the chance of the other 2. Question now is would the odd [wo]man out be either Sandra or Jerri? my guess would be Sandra as Russell has close ties to jerri and pavarti. Pavarti likely goes along with it cuz it wouodn't matter much who as long as it's not her. But, IMO, if it is Russell, Pavarti and anyone else in the final 3, I think anyone else will win. Parvati has pulled some shenanigans like Russell and likely will cost her the game as well. But, hell, I've been wrong before. Probably more than right tho !!! :lol:
     
  24. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Well, being a huge Rupert fan, last night's outcome was very disappointing. Although, not at all surprising. Soon as they showed him keeping others awake while tending to the fire I knew it was going to be him going home. There's a reason why they edit these episodes they way they do after all.

    Colby's next unless he can somehow man up and win a friggin' immunity challenge. First one out 15 seconds into last night's challenge certainly doesn't instill much confidence in me that he will though.

    My guess is it's going to be an all girl finals, 'cause the girls will turn on Russell as soon as Colby is gone IMO. Parvati may have just won a million dollars with her immunity challenge win over Rupert last night. And, man...was that ever close.
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO Colby's could stay just b/c he has been so bad at every challenge that he may not be seen as a threat. Of course, with all the heroes on the jury, he may be seen as a threat to win regardless.

    I do expect that it will be an all-girl final unless Russell wins immunity. IMO Parvati deserves it most, but having won it once before and the fact that everybody saw her as a threat from the get go may make her less liked. :confused2:
     
  26. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    Can't see an all-girl final happening.

    Sandra is next, then Colby. If Colby wins immunity, Parvati goes.

    Russell, Jerri, Parvati or Russell, Jerri, Colby in the final.
     
  27. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    If Sandra makes it to the final three she'll win again... lost her mom, husband is fighting the war... her only "negative" is that she's won before... hopefully Russell sees this.. I want him to win and I think his best chance is if he is in the final three with Parvati and Jerri. Colby would probably win if he gets there because of what happened in his first Survivor. Didn't he kinda give it to that girl (Tina back in Season two)? The million I mean, not IT.. .:lol: The jury will love him even though he has sucked this season... I do think if Russell gets to the final with P and J he'll win. The jury knows he's been calling the shots, Parvati has won before... and Jerri just kind of clings on and gets by.
     
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  28. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    I lost my mom and fought in the war myself. Maybe I should go on Survivor and get a million dollars. I hope that doesn't cause her to win. I am certainly sympathetic but that doesn't make her deserve to be the winner of the show. What has she done to warrant being the winner? She is completely useless in challenges. She just tries to slink around under the radar and hope nobody notices her. She's like Jerri but less honest and without the ability to actually win a challenge sometimes. I might not mind her under the radar techniques so much if it wasn't for the fact that I can't remember her ever helping anybody win any challenge. That should count for something, it's a big part of the game.

    I really like Parvati's chances at this point. People have been gunning for her forever and they can never put her out. She's sneaky but not nearly the snake Russell is either. I really can't decide whether I think Parvati or Russell deserves the win more. Despite Russell's methods he has made some pretty good moves throughout the game. Jerri is terrified to go against him. He's used her to remove basically every significant threat he's had up to this point. Maybe Jerri has a shot if she makes it to the final three.
     
  29. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Certainly didn't mean any disrespect and apologize if it came off the wrong way. What I meant was we only see snippets of the show, we don't see the all night conversations between contestants... where they talk about their families back home, their real life experiences, that's a huge part of the show and explains why someone like Sandra, who doesn't win anything, is horrible in 99% of the challenges, has won before. Who knows what this jury will be drawn to in deciding how to vote. This seems to be an evil (reward the liars not the people who tell the truth) season... and I reckon that will give Russell the greatest chance. I know JT is probably going to vote for him. JT made a stupid decision but he's going to recognize that when he was fooled, the guy who caused it made a brilliant move. If only I could counsel Russell on what to say and what not to say when he's in front of the jury (he totally blew it last season). I do get this sneaking suspicion he might be voted out before then... Sandra and Colby would vote him out.. just need one more.
     
  30. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    No worries, I didn't mean it that way at all. I just meant that I hope that doesn't cause her to win in and of itself. As I said, I sympathize with and understand the hardship she's experiencing personally but I don't see it as a reason to make her the winner of Survivor. To me you have to base it off the overall performance in the competition.
     
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  31. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    That result is unbelievable. This was the first season I actually watched of this show and probably the last. All of that and the winner is decided by a popularity contest. Sandra is a crap player, slinking around under the radar and half-***ing it at challenges to stay off the radar. Parvati and Russell deserved that much more than she did. What a shame butthurt people like Rupert get to decide who is the 'best'. Russell is getting booed right now for saying there's a problem with the game but he's 100 percent correct. And he's 100 percent correct that viewers should decide the winner.
     
  32. 305

    305 Brawndo Club Member

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    Get off my lawn.
    Agreed... complete joke that she won. Two seasons in a row that Russ completely controlled 90% of the decisions. Parvati, whatever... at least she played the game.
     
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  33. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I disagree...

    You can tell who are fans that understand the game by their opinion of Russell. If you think Russell should of won either season, then you don't understand the game of survivor.

    Sandra's gameplay wasn't overt, but it was there. Sandra had a majority alliance that destroyed by Tyson, who voted himself out. In order to save herself and Courtney, she correctly played Russell's fear of being duped. This lead to Coach's ouster.

    Once the tribes merged, Sandra tried on MULTIPLE occasions to form a counter alliance. She wasn't successful because the Heroes were incredibly stupid. They were dysfunctional from start to finish. This isn't Sandra's fault.

    Russell really seemed to lose it these last few episodes. He was all over the place, making deal after deal after deal, all of which he broke. He even was downright despicable to Danielle and Rupert. Lord knows how many incidents there were that didn't get shown. Oh, and swearing on his children lives? That type of behavior has NEVER been rewarded. It was pointless and Russell shot himself in the foot time and time again. Even Probst commented in his blog that Russell was losing control of himself.

    Russell pushed Parvati away, who clearly manipulated Russell throughout the game. Sandra bonded with the girls to get rid of Russell, but it never happened. Why? Because Russell is a GOAT. He couldn't win and the girls knew it. They wanted to be in the finals with him. They KNEW he couldn't win. That is not the mark of a great player, it is the mark of an idiot.

    I honestly think Parvati deserved to win more than Sandra (her calling Russell her pet was hilarious), but there is a reason why she lost. Sandra tried time and time again to get the Heroes on track. They didn't listen and as a result, lost. Did you notice who voted for Sandra? The Heroes! They all voted together as a block (alliance if you will) and rewarded Sandra because she was honest with them and gave them a chance to win, even if they threw it away. Sandra getting close to there heroes (the majority of jury voters) worked strategically.

    It's the aspect of Survivor Russell claims he doesn't care about, which is why his dumbass lost twice. The jury doesn't have to vote for the guy or girl who controlled the game, because that is IRRELEVANT. The object of the game is not to get to the final 2/3, but win. As JT pointed out, Russell only played half the game.

    Survivor is a game of cause and effect. Russell caused this effect. You either get it, or don't. he clearly doesn't, which is why he is a 2 time loser.

    It's funny he called out Boston Rob. In 1 season, Rob got 3/7 jury votes (the other 4 went to his wife, haha). In 2 seasons, Russell only got 2/18 votes. There is a reason for this...

    People compare Hatch and Russell a lot, but they couldn't be any different. Rich invented survivor strategy and controlled the game, but he wasn't outright dishonest unless it was absolutely necessary. He's always maintained that being dishonest for the sake of dishonesty is a quick way to lose the game. This is exactly what he's said in beautiful HD! Russell doesn't understand the jury aspect of the game, period.

    IMO, Parvati should of won. She clearly has great social, strategic, and physical gameplay. I honestly think she is the best all-time.

    As far as America deciding the vote, that is the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard. Survivor isn't a popularity contest. If fans determined the winners, Kelly beats Hatch, one of the best players ever and a great representative of how to win survivor with great strategy
     
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  34. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    Clark is absolutely right here. There's a reason for tribal councils and a reason for the jury mechanic. Players that understand these two mechanics win.

    A show where viewers decided the winner would be totally pointless, as there would be no reason to make alliances with anyone.
     
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  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Right. It would be a bunch of people playing up the cameras.

    I also want to point something out about the survivor metagame... There first two winners were people who controlled the game. The next 3 were people who flew under the radar. The next season Brian won and controlled the game. Then jenna and Sandra won and were sort of in the middle. Amber won by using Rob as a shield while he burnt everyone (sound similar?).

    The point is, every season is effected by the last. Coat-tail riders (which I don't agree that Sandra was one) will be targeted because it's now know they're threats to win. The game will correct this in future seasons. After that, the game will re-correct in another way to avoid different types of players. The type of winners all come in cycles.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Clark Kent.

    People who think Russell should have won don't understand the game. The key to Survivor is voting off the jury in a way that they don't hate you b/c you need their vote. Russell spent every day telling people how great he was and doesn't understand why those same people don't like him.

    IMO Parvati should have won b/c she played the most complete game. She was the best physical player. She let Russell be the bad guy and garner the ill will, but controlled who went home more often than he did. (The exception was Danielle). I don't think the jury realized how much she was controlling things.

    Sandra played better than Russell b/c she understood that the jury controlled her final fate. And frankly Russell was often controlled by Sandra w/o him realizing it.

    And the idea of a public vote is horrid. It would turn into a bunch of people mugging for the camera and saying how great they were. That is the problem with most reality T.V.
     
  37. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Well, I'm not surprised. Knew Sandra would win if she got into the final 3. And after what Russell did at the final jury, if he had taken Jerri instead, he still wouldn't have won. I like Russell, I'm glad he got the $100k. He brings something to the game that is interesting. But ultimately, his lack of being able to win votes was his downfall. Got to be able to win votes and play both sides. Now, I think he should have won the season before this as he truely deserved it by finding the idols without clues. But alas, the jury was out to get him and unfortunately for him, he didn't learn his lesson. Actually the taping for Heroes vs Villains was done before he found out he didn't win the season prior, correct? So he played them both the same way. I wonder if he would have done things differently had the taping been after?
     
  38. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    If half of the game is a tribal council popularity contest than I disagree with it completely. Sandra was a crap player. They gave her a million dollars for slinking around for 39 days and half***ing challenges. Russell is a scoundrel but you wouldn't fault someone for lying about what they had in poker. Yet douches like Rupert can't see the line between what is a game and real life. You know, Russell probably is a bit of a jerk in real life, but the way they go up and there and berate and belittle him as a person makes them look like sore losers to me. It's a competition, you lost, get over it.

    I don't have a problem with Russell losing, it's not surprising. But Sandra winning over Parvati was a complete joke. And for the record this game would be completely uninteresting without people like Russell. It's a shame that only competitors who appease the ones they are out to beat can win a million dollars. Sandra was so lowkey due to her weakness as a competitor that they were not angry with her like the other two. So she wins. Completely lame and there's no defense for it.
     
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  39. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Yes there would be a point. There would still be tribal councils, it just wouldn't decide the million dollar winner. I like games that reward strong competitors, not catering to the people that you've already beaten. Two very strong competitors were not rewarded last night.
     
  40. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Rehoboth Beach
    Really! But Russell didn't control the ultimate decision that crowns the winner. Besides, he never got one single vote from anyone. That should say enough right there. Then Russell *****ed about the rules saying there needs to be viewer input then Jeff explains to him the parameters of the game and that he might win that game but not this one.
    Russell gigged every jury member in one way or another and is why he got no votes. Parvati, on the other hand gigged enough on her own to allow Sandra to get the most votes. That's the way the game is and how it's played. I understand that you may have wanted Russell to win but that doesn't make it a joke that Sandra won. Russell was doomed from the start. It didn't matter who he took to the final 3, he would not win, not paying the way he does. Bottom line is, Russell played twice, went to the finals twice and has never won. Sandra has done the same thing except she won both times. You can not argue with success.
     

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