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Henne vs. Sanchez debate continues

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by mroz, May 12, 2010.

  1. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    So, let me get this straight.

    For us who have the opinion (after less than one season) that Henne is better than Fiedler/Carr are kidding ourselves.

    But, your opinion (after less that one season) that Henne is mediocre is "unequivocal?"

    Ummmm hypocrisy anyone?
     
  2. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you can't see the talent difference between Henne and Fiedler I don't put much stock in your take on Qbs.
     
  3. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    My guess is that opinion comes from looking strictly at the stats from the season.

    Anyone who can't see that Henne has the physical tools, and the leadership intangibles to go with it aren't paying attention.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  4. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    the IceMan will flourish w/ the new offense in his second year starting
     
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  5. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    so after what was basically a rookie season for henne you are already writing him off as mediocre. so what do you suggest we do at QB then? it is impatient fans like you that sour the fan base. of course you are entitled to your opinion as horrible as it may be. to judge a guy so harshly before he has had time to develop in the position is knee jerk as hell. you do understand this will be his first training camp as a starter right. chad henne is going to make you eat those words.
     
  6. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Active Member

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    The idea capsulizing anyone's career(positive or negative) after 13 games is laughable*


    *Pat White being the exception ;).
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Fiedler gets alotnof unnecessary hate from some people, IMO. That's not to say that Fiedler was even on the same level as Henne, though. Henne has the potential to be easily top 10...Fiedler didn't.
     
  8. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I thought it was a nice pun when added with "when comparing the two."
     
  9. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    I don't understand why you guys get your panties in a bunch when somebody tells you the truth. Let go of your illusion, and listen up:

    1) Chad Henne IS NOT going to develop into one of the premier QB's in the NFL.

    2) Henne IS NOT even the best QB we've had since Marino (he's 4th, at best).

    3) Just because I say this doesn't mean I don't support the team (or Henne for that matter).

    I would like for Henne to prove me wrong, but I'm TELLING you, he's just not capable.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The thing is, you're not providing any facts with you analysis of Henne. You're just saying, "Oh, he's gonna suck." And to be honest, I don't blame you for not providing any facts because their are not any facts as to why he's going to be bad.

    On the other hand, the ones who see great potential have provided facts as to why he is going to be very good. They mention his great arm strength, his ability to drive this team down the field for game winning drives, has good footwork and mechanics for such a young player, and really had a solid rookie season with a not so good group of receivers.
     
  11. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    Yes, he can throw the ball hard and far. Yes he has good mechanics. Those are indeed facts. But there is MUCH more to being an elite NFL QB than that.

    You wanted them, so here they are. These are also facts about Chad Henne:
    His accuracy is questionable. A lot of times, he doesn't find guys when they get open. He has trouble recognizing blitzes. He has trouble identifying coverages. He folds under pressure/he is not dependable in clutch situations.

    Can he improve those things? Of course he can.

    Will he improve them enough to become a premier QB? I don't see it happening.
     
  12. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    You mean the clutch situation against the Jets on 3rd and 5 when he threw a touch pass to Camarillo?

    Or how about that rollout to Camarillo in the same game that set us up inside the 5?

    Or how about the 4th down to Camarillo against the Patriots in a comeback win?

    (BTW We should TOTALLY hold on to Camarillo)

    Or the final drive against Tampa Bay where he lead the offense down the field with under a minute to play?

    Or the clutch drive against the Jets that was capped off by a Joey Hanos TD when the offense was sputtering the whole day?

    In fact, the only two times I can point to and say he wasn't clutch was against Buffalo and Tennessee. But even in the TN game he lead the team back to tie it.
     
  13. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    don't try to confuse him with facts man
    he is reading the tea leaves and predicting henne's future
    way more precise and accurate. :wink2:
     
  14. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    you have no way of knowing this at all. the kid hasn't even played a full season yet or been a starter going into camp. do you understand the value of getting the majority of reps?
    henne's development is in progress as we speak and he will only get better as he gets comfortable. to write him off already is downright foolish to me. i'm not sure what your beef is with him or maybe you have the second half in buffalo on dvr and that is all you watch of him but you need to do a little more homework before you go slinging he will never develop. those are harsh words coming from someone on a fan board. either you are god and know the future LOL or you are just a hater of our YOUNG PROMISING STARTING QB
     
  15. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not even just that, but heck just the offensive schemes. Henning had an entire offseason to design an offense around Pennington. He had Henne thrown into his lap a quarter of the way through the season, and was forced to pull up backup plans midway through. There were reports that he was going to Henne and having him circle plays he was comfortable with to try to design a package around him.

    I may be off base here, but I really don't think we got to see half of what Henne can do with a full offseason of prep both in terms of himself, and our game coordination. That Offense got better throughout the season, even despite all the injuries, and our fantastic (sarcasm) defensive play.
     
  16. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Clearly, you were absent the day your 1st grade teacher broke down the intrcasies of fact vs. opinion. Nothing, and I mean nothing you just stated had even a scent of factual supposition. A 61% CP is not what I would call "questionable accuracy", particuarly not when you had a receiving corps with a case of the dropsies between Ginn and Fasano. I mean, come on, how many critical 3rd down conversions did Henne put on the money only to rip his chin strap off in disgust after watching the drive go up in flames due to another dropped ball?

    Any how can you possibly know whether or not he's hitting open receivers? If you're watching from home, your full of it because we rarely get to see the down field open up as the camera is always focused on the LOS plus 7 or 8 yards. If you're at the games, maybe, just maybe you can say what you're saying, but even then one must account for where the Safety is shifting and sliding to; are the LBs dropping into zone and taking away what YOU would consider a golded opportunity? Did the OL hold up long enough for him to hit that open guy, or did he have to check down to avoid the sack? On a hot, blistering South Florida afternoon after a day full of beer guzzling, I doubt any fan has the wherewithall to pin down such fluid variables. Yes, even you.

    And last but not least, "folding under pressure"? Are you F-ing kidding me? John Beck folded under pressure. Cleo Lemon folded under pressure. Henne has on numeros occasions come through with a crucial 3rd down or 4th down throw, and made some fantastic, not just a dink and dunk play, plays down the field to put his team in position to win when all appeared to be lost (see comments by others above). This is a great example of how you lack a grasp on the slippery, enigmatic riddle of fact vs opinion. Ashraf says here's 5 examples of why he's clutch, and all you can offer is that he just doesn't hold up under pressure....because you just know? Come on. Weak!
     
  17. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    I like when you guys think you see something that isn't there.

    You can stop preaching about how wrong I am to not believe in Henne. I am too smart to buy into your beliefs. It's like I'm an atheist and you guys are christians trying to convert me.

    The plain and simple fact is that you guys can't see the forest for the trees. The Wildcat (even when Brown was gone) is what made our team competitive, NOT Chad Henne.

    For all you guys to worship at the shrine of Chad Henne is funny to me.
     
  18. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    OK. So he's come through a few times.

    All I know is the man didn't come through for us at the end of the season when we NEEDED to win. THAT'S why I say he folds under pressure. Had we won those last 3 games, we would've been in the playoffs.
     
  19. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    :sidelol:
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm sorry man, but all you are doing right now is trolling.
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I knew when he started talking that Jay Fiedler/ David Carr crap. Buddy isnt worth the time it would take to rebut.
     
  22. krypto

    krypto Banned

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    Jay Fiedler had the heart, he just didn't possess the quarterback skills.
     
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  23. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Surely those losses had nothing to do with the fact that the middle of our pass defense had a bullseye the size of Okeefanokee Swamp for any team with a TE to shred? When you're down 21-0 in the first quarter, you can't put that loss on the QB. If YOU do, then YOU need to put down the axe, because that's the only viable motivation coming through to me.
     
  24. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Just because you say he will suck and be gone as our starter in five years don't mean your right and it will happen, if you want to pass this as your opinion that's fine but the manner you have come into this thread and stated your opinions as if they are fact and we are foolish to not believe them is, well, all I come up with is how about getting off your high horse here, I mean wow.....
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Uhhhhh...the Wildcat, minus Ronnie, was basically worthless.
     
  26. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    "For all you guys to worship at the shrine of Chad Henne is funny to me."-TrueDolFan

    DUDE! your avatar reads "minion of satan" and that is ******ed to me...
     
  27. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    You must not be able to watch the dolphins games being in MN. Everything you've said about Henne is the complete opposite of the truth.

    I've watched the games over and over and am more impressed each time i've watched him. You must go by wins/losses and make rediculous asumptions.

    He has the best accuracy, velocity, and throws one of the best spirals we've seen down here in a long time.

    I've watched him go to his 3-4th option and throw a dart for a 1st down. He doesnt take alot of sacks. If he takes a sack he doesnt fumble often.

    He does NOT look confused or scared ala John Beck, does NOT have a noodle arm or accuracy problems ala Feidler, does NOT hold on to the ball too long ALA Carr and Rapelithsberger. The guy has a huge pair of Balls when he stands in the pocket.

    If you cant see any of that while watching him you have ZERO football I.Q and are being completely ignorant.
     
  28. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    I honestly, truly, whole-heartedly hope that Henne will prove me wrong. I really do. For the sake of the team, I hope you all will be able to tell me "I told you so".

    Will I be happy if Henne fails? No. I don't want anybody on the team to fail. I want the Miami Dolphins to win the Super Bowl. That's all I care about.

    I just don't get what you guys see in this mediocre guy. I just don't see this guy magically turning into a world-beater like all you guys think he will.

    I put him in the same category as guys like Patrick Ramsay, Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, David Carr, Matt Cassell, etc., etc. etc.

    What this is going to come down to is who's right. Me or all of you. I'll put my money on MY ability to know talent when I see it, thank you very much.
     
  29. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I see Henne more in the the class of Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB winning QB in VII & VIII then the Dan Marino type (SB losing QB) and thats good enough for me. Just get there as a starting point and I give Marino credit for that.

    But from what I have seen with Henne and his ability, heck being in this entire class is still ok and doable from a similar talent standpoint:

    Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - SB XVII
    Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX
    Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI
    Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII
    Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV
    Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI
    Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV
    Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV
    Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII
    Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII
    Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII
    Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints - SB XLIV

    They are all similar....play your role and maximize the talent around you on both sides of the ball.
     
  30. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Little Rhody
    :gun_bandana::2guns:
     
  31. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    With each post, you lose more credibility.
     
  32. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    I agree with your comparisons with the exceptions of Warner, Manning, Worthlessberger and Brees. Henne is nowhere near those guys.
     
  33. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    I lose credibility because I disagree with you? That is absurd.

    Look, kid. I've been seriously watching football for longer than you have been alive, and have followed the sport for 10 years longer than that. For a young guy like you, having seen far less than HALF of what I have, suggesting that I can't disagree with you on whether or not Player A will turn out to be any good is nothing less than ridiculous.
     
  34. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    of course he is no where near those guys he was a first time starter last season.
    did you see mannings first season in the nfl or even elway
    they both stunk it up
    i watched elway line up behind the guard to take a snap
    you are expecting instant pro bowl QB from henne
    that is unrealistic and downright foolish.
     
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  35. mnfinfan

    mnfinfan Active Premium Member Luxury Box

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    :lol:yeah me too, I read it as a slight first and was huh the article was pro Henne. Then I sobered up and read it again :pointlol:
     
  36. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    I know I am feeding the troll, but...

    Your not losing credibility because you disagree, you are continuously losing credibility because of your absurd points.

    And "I am older than you, therefore my point is more valid that yours," is just flat-out weak rhetoric.

    And not to mention you are a "minion" of a "minion" who got his butt whooped by the boss.
     
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  37. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    You are giving those guys way to much credit for how they started and how they accomplished the goal of winning a SB. When it comes to that, Henne is exactly equal to their situation.
     
  38. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most of the guys know that an NFL QB coming out of college, takes time to develop, that is if he ever is going to be a good one...

    Brees first year as starter in 2002, these are his stats... 61% completion, 6.2 YPA, 17 TDs, 16 INTs and a 77 QBR...

    Peyton first year as a starter 1998... 57% completion, 6.5 YPA, 26 TDs, 28 INTs, and a 71 QBR...

    Henne was 61% completion, 6.4 YPA, 12 TD's, 14 INTs, and a 75 QBR...

    Sanchez was 54% completion, 6.7 YPA, 12 TDs, 20 INTs and a 63 QBR...

    Brady first year starter in 2001... 64% completion, 6.9 YPA, 18 TDs, 12 Ints, and a 87 QBR... He also was the biggest reason why they won the SB that year, and many more years... talk about cool under pressure...

    IMO, Brady is a better QB than Peyton and Brees and will always be one...why he has not thrown more than 14 INTs in a Season in his 9 year as a starter, career...

    Peyton has thrown more than 14+ INTS in a season, 7 times, in his 12 years...

    Brees has thrown more than 14 INTs in a season, 5 Times, in his 9 years...

    So for the most part Henne and Sanchez will be the talk of both towns (Miami/NY) for the next few years, and then their performace will be valued by their draft pick...
     
  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I agree w/ you there. Just sayin, Henne has about as much in common with Jay Fiedler as he does with Prince Fielder and I hate seeing a good thread go down the tubes because of a troll.
     
  40. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not you disagreeing that has me saying that. The fact that you are so sure that Henne is going to be bad and saying we are all wrong for not believing so is nothing less than ridiculous.
     

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