So the island is the same thing as what is in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction? (explicit language) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMRi-gFeK-M&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Pulp Fiction Ending Scene (Diner)[/ame]
okay, so which one of the two young boys is the boy we see running around the island? He seemed to follow Flocke around and Flocke told him to go away. I'm assuming it's Jacob as a young boy. He only appeared in the show after Jacob was killed by Ben. So the young Jacob is tormenting MIB? We'll never get all the answers... sometimes it's better that way... recall the ending to the Sopranos... at this point I'm hoping there's a fairly defined path about which way to go... faith vs science... how the two struggle always against each other, in life and in death...
Ok maybe clearly evil is strong but the guy has done a lot of immoral/questionable things during the show's run. I think Ben is more bad than good. Yes the young boy who Flocke sees is the young Jacob.
I think the Island itself is tormenting MIB. I think some of the "visions" are dead people, MIB and the island.
I'm not so sure the smoke monster has anything to do with Jacob's brother. In my mind he could be a completely different entity who was just using that body for a while. I was extremely disappointed in this episode. I think the only question it really answered was why Jacob would have wanted to kill the Dharma initiative. That's about it.
well, it was supposed to answer why "Locke" wants to get off the island. As usual it leaves us asking more questions. When Claudia appeared to young MIB and led him to the other people, anyone else thinking that might not be Claudia? But rather the light entity down the waterfall hole? I get the feeling that mother became Jacob and the light entity became MIB but is really smokey...
I thought it was a great episode The light is nothing mystical, it is the same electro magentic pocket tht we have seen mentioned over and over again. Remember these were simple people, they just explained it the best way they could. ambitious, power hungry and misguided but he is not evil IRRC The last thing that was going to be released from the box was hope but then Pandora closed it.
I don't think mother or whatever she was became Jacob, just do to the fact she had a jaded view of humanity where as jacob seems to believe that humanity is at least redeemable
I dont like the half-assed explanations for The Rules("Maybe when you get your own game you can make up the rules") and The Numbers. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-a...lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea They also go on to say that the Outrigger shootout wont be fully revealed, I really didnt care either way.
found this part interesting... I'm not understanding the curiousity regarding the outrigger shootout... what am I missing?
i loved the episode... i dont expect to get every answer... i dont need to know where the mother came from, or who her mother was, do we need to go back to find out how the earth was created and how the island got there? not everything is going to be clearly answered down to every detail... all the questions make for great debate, discussion and different ideas which i like... cant wait to see how they wrap it all up
I didn't care for the episode. It didn't answer questions or have compelling or interesting moments. Basically, I didn't find it entertaining. Some episodes this season have made me look forward to the ending with excitement. This was one of those episodes that also made me look forward to the show's ending, but not with anticipation, but rather with relief.
i found it interesting that young flocke(or as i like to call him adam)was able to see his mother but not jacob because she was dead.does this meen adam was already dead as well?they went from being babies to 13-16 years old.or does this just meen he has the same ability that hurley and miles have? i have also been pondering if "eve" is a smoke monster aswell(maybe becasue she went into the cave at some point in her life) due to the fact that i can't see just a normal woman doing all the destruction and killing of adams camp.
I think it might have been implied by that scene that mother was the smoke monster also. Im pretty sure she said thank you to MIB after he stabbed her, maybe thanking him for releasing her. Notice he stabbed her with that special knife passed around this season before she was able to speak to him.
Seriously someone give them some hugs. I don't get how Jacob/MIB had parent issues though with their 'mother'. I mean it seemed like she did care for the two and did help raise them. Sure she kept some things from them but all parents do to kids that aren't ready to hear the truth about something. I guess I'm not seeing what made her a bad parent. She's certainly no Anthony Cooper or Sun's father.
Another thought about the possibility of this, even though itdoesnt seem to be the case. In s4. Cabin Fever, when Richard visited a young John. When he entered the house we saw that John had drawn a picutre of the smoke monster and when presented with all the items. Now Richard asked him which items were his, already not what he wanted. He choose the first two right and the third was the knife. Could the scene have had something to do with possibly having some prior connection to MIB as possibly a vessel for him. I know I am strectching alot, but its something that seems to have foreshadowed Lockes destiny.
Yeah but just because someone is a bad person or did something bad doesn't mean that person is also a bad parent. On the flip side just because someone is a good person doesn't mean they're a good parent. A perfect example would be Sideways Jack who was a good person but a bad parent for his son, until he realized that and changed. Or even Kate with Aaron, although Kate killed her father she seemed like a perfectly caring mother to Aaron.
That's just one scene that I'd kind of forgotten about. Interesting that he was visited by Richard and not Jacob (both can apparently leave the island at will). Thinking that Richard wasn't working for Jacob, but rather someone who told him he was Jacob (MIB/Smokey). Locke certainly didn't lose interest in knives. We know how close Richard and Ben were... Ben could release smokey and used it to kill those mercenaries.
Is it just me or Ben being able to use Smokey to kill those mercenaries make little to know sense now we know what Smokey is? I mean exactly how would Ben call for him and why would Smokey even care? Especially if the mercenaries' goal was to kill everyone on the island, wouldn't it make sense for Smokey to let them kill all the candidates so he could leave? Or would have still have to get someone to kill Jacob for him? So many possible pilot holes here, it's driving me crazy.
Definitely the whole others sometimes controlling Smokey is a killer. Maybe it wasnt so much as controlling him but knowing how to release him and then smokey judged those to be unfit to be on the island. I mean Sawyer told Jack to know Flocke into the water, that has to mean something. The little plug Ben pulled in Dharmaville let water down into the area where Smokey was, thus flushing him out. He cant leave the island across water. I think water plays a huge role at the end. At theory I kind of have here, when Jacob let his brother go down the cave/waterfall, maybe the body stopped the waterflow for a second, thus unleashing Smokey..probably way off. Also in LA_X we saw the island submerged, maybe this was a way to contain the smoke, by drowning it.
This is something I have thought for a good while now, I think I posted this thought somewhere in this thread. Only hole in it, which everything has hole in Lost, is that when Flocke wanted to see Jacob Richard knew exactly where to take him, and then when Flocke came out Richard knew exactly who he was. Still plausible though. The thingthat made me think this was the ash ring being broken around "Jacobs" Cabin. Oh and in that same episode Richard was also there shortly after Locke was born too.
When Ben led Locke to Jacob's cabin and then Hurley went there too to only see Christian (and Claire), safe to presume that Ben was talking to MIB/Smokey the whole time.
Agreed but Ben did say he never saw Jacob...im wondering about Richard and Jacob in regards to the purge/lists, etc. I do think that as for smokey being the "security system" or protector that he might order those things but it seems against Jacobs nature in the end to do so. Just alot of mixed messages that are still relevant to have answers but probably won't.
I agree I think she was a smoke monster, no one else could have killed the camp like that, plus how else would she know what happened when someone entered the light? Because it happened before. I agree and it did seem like she wanted it to end anyway. Remember John visited Alpert in the past and he told him he was their leader. so Alpert went to give him a "leader test".
Yep...wasnt that actually Flocke though and not Locke...which makes much sense...other than the drawing from young john..thats the big one I think
I reckon "mother" could see the future... she had the same ability as Desmond (Because of his run in with the fail safe key / light). She knew MIB would be waiting for her at the cave when he killed her, she sent Jacob to gather (food?) and seemed to say good bye to him (told him to be careful IIRC). When she said "thank you" to MIB, it was as if she was expecting it and wanted him to kill her so she could finally move on.
John was on the Island when the time skips occured, then he had to turn the wheel and he died off-Island.
Or she could have guessed that is what he would do. She did kill everyone who he lived with for 30 years and destroyed his chance to get off the island.
it's funny to me how the first few seasons, one of the biggest things in the series were the numbers. Now they seem almost irrelevant.
Everything that doesn't have to do with Jacob and MIB is irrelevant now. That's why I said Seasons 5 & 6 feel like a spin off of the original (Seasons 1-4) show. Which is a big reason why this show isn't as good as it used to be. Overally everything we've known/learned before Season 5 has been pretty much filler episodes and not really important to the whole 'end game' of the show. Seriously, think back to the earlier episodes and earlier seasons, they don't even feel important anymore since everything is now Jacob/MIB heavy. Remember when Locke and Ben going to Jacob's cabin was such a big deal back when it aired? Now even something like that was such a huge event at the time is meaningless. The show just went in an extremely different direction and in my opinion it really has hurt the show overall, much like how the last 2 seasons of The Sopranos really hurt the series as a whole. I understand that the writers had to go in a different direction since the back stories started to get really stale but them using flash forwards were great, which I also understand had a limit life as well. I just think once they brought time travel and made Jacob/MIB into much bigger characters into the show it really effected the series, eventhough Jacob and MIB are important the viewer still spend over 5 season getting to know and care for the main castaways. Perhaps the show stayed on longer than it really should have, maybe the writers could have cut out the whole time travel and sideways reality out entirely it could have been a better show if they just got right down to the point of everything instead of slowly bringing the viewer along and creating more questions.
I still don't see how she did that, unless she is some superhuman? She carried MIB up the ladder, shoveled dirt into the dry well filling it completely, and then killed everyone in the camp, supposedly setting fire to their homes, yet it looked like everyone was found outside of them (bloodied I might add). And she tells him "thank you" when he stabs her in the back.
so the cave and desmond will have some ties in the end i presume.i see desmond going into the light cave unaffected.i wonder if that would put out the light and if it's witmore's(sp) intention to thow dez into the cave to see what happens and smokey is trying to stop that.dez may also be a reason why smokey can't leave.
I saw it coming, I am not a superhuman. She is some kind of superhuman. We do not know her powers to be exact. For all we know she went in the light and also became a smoke monster and then saw an opportunity to die when she had two children she could manipulate. The same way the smoke monster manipulated Ben into killing Jacob. He didn't know it would happen, however if he pushed all the right buttons, then it might work out.
I disagree about the time travel part. I really liked it. I think it showed a good history of the island, especially showing that people have been trying to figure out the island for a long time. The Dharma people were just the most recent. I do think the writing could be a little tighter. For instance the "help me" no longer make any sense from the Jacob in the cabin scene. It did show that Ben never actually spoke to Jacob.
It is widely believed that it was the MIB was in the cabin, hence the ash circles. They have to answer that question somehow, they've been shoving ash down our throats since that scene to begin with.
