NFLN Last night: "Best CB tandem?"

If you want to be a complete homer, then go ahead. I feel like I'm going to be gang-tackled if I said the sky was blue around here. Like going to the Patriots' board and putting forth the idea that Manning might be as good as Brady.

I follow the Bills AND the Dolphins. Do you?

I wouldn't say what you suggest quite yet. But Ricky will soon be gone, and it just might be the case that the Bills' running backs will be better.

 

You do realize the bills were ranked #30 against the run right?

 

IMO Revis a a good CB, is he the best out there right now? No, if you look at his career and maybe if you look at only last Season...but he was not fallable...


according to PFF... http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=Revis&playerid=3630&group=6

In 2007- He was avg in 5 games, above-good in 2 games, and below avg in 1 game...

In 2008- He was avg in 11 games, above-good in 4 games and below avg in 1 game...

Last year- He was avg in 7 games, above-good in 12 games...

He has had his avg games against the passing teams, Houston, Indi, SD and the likes...

Maybe he had a good-great year last year, but can he repeat his performance for the next few years...maybe...only time will tell... we know how Cromarie turned out...

 

Look at the number of snaps and look how many times he was thrown at

 

Yeah, actually I watch every team's games, all of them. And I see youve decided to walk even further out on the limb. First youre talking about how great the Bills were (2nd vs. the pass etc), now youre saying that the Bills were held back by the Cover 2, that if they played man to man, things wouldve been even better? I'm tempted to ask whether youre joking. I dont think any competent coaching staff would sit in a shell coverage and allow thier front 7 to get trampled (and lose games) if they had corners who were capable of playing man up. If they are ten yards off the ball on 3rd and short, its not b/c they are good, its because the coaches have no confidence in them. You may feel like you know better than the coaches, but judging by how the Bills' corners graded out, I'd say the coaches were right.

I'm not bashing you guys' corners, McGee is decent when healthy, the others are average IMO, which is fine for a Cover 2 squad. I'm just saying that Will Allen (when healthy), Vontae Davis, and Sean Smith are all better man/quarters guys, which is what we play here. Its not about which guy is "better" the other guy, its all about scheme/skill set, and different players are better at different things.

If you want to say the Bills were 2nd vs. the pass, add in 30th vs. the run, and also add in thier record 6-10, i.e. they were losing most of the time, and their run defense was suspect, so why would anyone be throwing the ball much in the first place? Stats are useful, but if you dont put them in context, not so much.

Outside of a 3-4 switch not sure what the Bills plan to do this year, new coaching staff and all. Not concerned though, Buffalo has less of a chance of beating us than any team on the schedule. No NT, no 3-4 OLBs, the offensive line is a joke, the DL isnt much better. Last year the Bills put 12 guys in the box to stop the run and still couldnt stop it, this year thats not an option. We dominated both sides of the LOS in both games and it'll happen again this year, barring injury Buffalo = two easy wins. Nothing your "great" secondary can do about that.

 

By the way here is another site talking about PFF... good information on how they do, what they do and who they are...

This from Fanhouse.com... http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/03/04/pro-football-focus-how-do-they-put-their-numbers-together/Read the article it is a very interesting one as detailed and lenghty as it needs to be...

Here is what I believe is the best part...

After reading this I have become more favorable on their data trend...

 

I don't think you'll find any Raiders fan who wont admit he wasn't near as good as he was last year or the year before.

That bit about reading the explanation? It wasn't pointless sass. They explain it.

Even if you don't buy the positional rankings(Or rather, are unwilling to think about them all that hard), their raw data is right there.

 

I think we as most fans, an maybe all fans fail to realize that PFF is grading the outcome of the play, by the players performance or impact on the play...their production or lack of production...

They are not looking at the player's skills, talent, IQ, or physical ability... I think that is the part that we fans only see...

 

Many rummors but the Raiders never stated he was tradeable...

 

you said elite..........ha
Is there anything elite in Buffalo?
Chicken wings maybe?

OJ Simpson?
I would be willing to bet that there will not be anything that combines Elite and Buffalo for the rest of my life.

 

Then who should take it seriously?

Football is not a hard sport to figure out. If they create formulas you don't understand, I suggest you either figure them out or don't trust in them.

 

There you have it then. Sounds like it has everything to do with how the rest of the team does on any given play as well, if you are right. Blames or rewards people on what the other 10 guys on the field does? Doesn't sound too reliable, especially for a position like CB or any player in the secondary.

 

LOL. Yeah, the last Bills coaching staff was beyond reproach; that's why we won the Super Bowl every year. That's why the current staff is going about it differently. Talk to me about "grading out," and then talk to me about results...I'll take the results, please.

I think the Bills' secondary is at or near the top in the league. I also think they can be better, or used better. What's not to understand about that? I also thought that the Dolphins' picking Ginn Jr. ninth overall was a terrible idea. I was right about that...I could be right again.

Fine. You are certainly welcome to your opinion. Please extend the same courtesy to me. I think using the cover 2 depends a lot on the pass rush, of which the Bills had very little. That we were successful in general when using this scheme says a lot about our secondary. But I think man-to-man is a better scheme for the guys we have. Anyway, it's not like any team uses one or the other ALL the time.

Sounds good, except it's not exactly true in this case. The Bills were thrown at more than the Dolphins. They were somewhere in the middle with that stat. Only two other teams were thrown at less than the Dolphins.

Maybe you are watching too many games to soak up them all, but the Bills beat the Dolphins 31-14 last year in one of the games.

Most of our DEs from last year are smaller, so a lot of them will be playing OLB. Aaron Maybin, picked #11 last year, is a MUCH better fit there, ask me, so that's like having another 1st round pick this year, really. Posluszny will do just fine there, as will Kawika Mitchell, who has experience in that scheme, as does Andra Davis, who we picked up from Denver.

There are different ways to play the 3-4. Kyle Williams is a good player, and he'll play the NT when Torell Troup, our second round pick, isn't. We'll also switch up and show different looks, including the 4-3 at times. The DL includes Stroud, who is healthy again. We got Dwan Edwards from Baltimore to play End.

The Bills won't spend so much effort trying to put a square peg in a round hole anymore, meaning that they will play to our players' strengths, like I said before. It's a process, but I do believe we are headed in the right direction.

 

I dont think coaching was the problem, Lombardi owuldve gone 6-10 with that team. If 6-10 is what youre looking for, be my guest. I'll still say that having good pass defense numbers is meaningless if its not helping you to win games.

All coverages depend on pass rush to be effective. No one uses the sae coverage all the time, but there are Cover 2 teams and Man/Quarters teams. They way you draft/aquire players depends on which philosophy youre looking to employ as some corners fit one scheme better than they do the other.

The Bilsl were on the field alot more than the Dolphins were, and gave up alot less big plays. Gotta put the stats in context if youre get anything useful out of them

True. Terrible game for Miami, shouldve been a blowout, but hey, no excuses, we lost.

You still have an awful offensive line, and your front 7 is weak vs. the run, thats going to make it VERY tough vs. the other teams in the division, Jets and Fins especially. Right direction yes, but youve got quite a ways to go IMO.

 

Muhsin Muhammed does a really bad Mr T impression

Personally I think he's overrating our young 2 CBs a little, but it's nice to see them getting props. Whether they are a top 5 CB tandem depends on how they continue to progress this season.

 

No offense but if you guys abandon the Cover 2 your going to notice just how bad your corners are.

 

I hate the Bills.

I read every post in this thread and came up with this conclusion....I REALLY hate the Bills.

 

maybe the bills secondary was that good because everyone ran on them instead!

i'm looking forward to our CB tandem growing together and getting better and better. here's to hoping they stay healthy for many years!

 

I think it is nice, but I get worried about Smith....VD I think is going to be special, SS?? not so sure...I like the kid alot, and root for him hard...he has to improve this year and develop....VD just has to develop...Smith turn your head bro!!!

 

WC maybe correct when saying their secondary is better than we expect, but I believe is their Passing Defense in general that got better production better than what ever talent we put on the field last season...

They only gave up 34 of +20yards Pass Plays in 519 attempts (one every 15 attempts)...they were ranked 3rd behind Jets and Indy...

We gave up 57 +20yds Pass Plays in 489 attempts (one every 8.5 Pass attempts)... We were 30th ranked behind teams like Detroit, Oakland and STL...

So teams did not get many big plays on their secondary when they tried, the stats show that that is a fact...


and there was really not much difference IMO on their D in Passing or Rushing attempts. There were only about 16 attempts more on rushing then Passing, but I have to admit one thing, they averaged 0.5 yard more per attempt than our D...

So teams ran on Buffalo because it was their main weakness and was the opponents main scheme...

 

That's the spirit!

You should hate the Bills. The Dolphins are 4-8 against them over the past 6 years.

 

Touche, indeed.

Damn you, Joe Ferguson. He beat the Dolphins literally like 3 times in 12 years. Why we kept him for so long is beyond me.

I grew up in this era, which is a big reason why I hate the Dolphins as well. I think I hate the Patriots more now, though; we haven't beaten them in like six years. We had them in a choke hold in the opener last year...oh, well. I hate the Jets, too; the hype around them this year is ridiculous, and they'll never live up to it IMO. Used to hate Baltimore/Indy when they were in the division as well, but not anymore. It's the name of the game.

Those days are over, though. We'll see what happens this year, cuz you can't live in the seventies forever. I think you are way overconfident if you already chalked up two wins against the Bills in 2010. The Dolphins only won one more game than the Bills last year, even with all the madness happening with the Bills, yet the Dolphins are considered superior somehow? Why?

I'm curious, though. Where did you get the 52-35-1 Dolphins/Bills stat? I suppose this includes the AFL days?

 

Because when you compare the offseason we had to the offseason you had, we improved a lot more.

 

Let me disagree with you on Revis
I think Nnamdi is the best corner in the league
and I think all teams in the NFL agree

Teams threw at Nnamdi a total of 28 times last season
1.75 throws to his area a game...THIS IS RESPECT

Teams threw to Revis 111 times
Foxworth 111 times
Bailey 92 times
Cromartie 120 times

and the list goes on
NO PLAYER IN FOOTBALL DOMINATES TO THE POINT
WHERE TEAMS ARE AFRAID TO THROW IN HIS DIRECTION...

Nnamdi takes away one half of the field in the passing game and NO one not even Revis places fear in the minds of offensive coordinators in the NFL

Nnamdi=fear=respect=THE BEST CORNER IN FOOTBALL

 

I didn't come here to talk smack.

How has Gailey "not been able to cut it" in the NFL? He brought his team to the playoffs in both his years as a Head Coach, more than Sparano has done. Gailey's first year in Dallas he took a 6-10 team to 10-6 record, from 4th to 1st in the division. Jerry Jones has said that firing Gailey when he did was one of his biggest regrets. He's done well with sub-par QBs. He has a winning record wherever he went. He understands how to disguise looks and not be so predictable, something Dick Jauron didn't understand. A lot of the time, the way we lined up would reveal what we were about to do. Gailey has pretty much coached since graduating college. He's done it all: defensive backfield, defensive coordinator, special teams, tight ends, receivers, quarterbacks, offensive coordinator, and head coach.

Yeah, yeah. Our biggest needs were LT and QB, right? IMO, stopping the run was just as big of a need. We have a couple of prospects at LT, you know, and we could still make a trade for one in time for training camp. Trent Edwards has shown promise in the past. If the running game works out, it could play to his strengths...playing to a person's strengths, something Gailey understands. He also understands running one play to set up the next.

In 2007, the Dolphins lost 6 games by 3 points. IMO, the only reason you made the playoffs in 2008 was because of Brett Favre...he was the reason Pennington fell into your laps. Without him, you had crap at the position. I always liked Pennington and predicted he would help the Dolphins more than Favre would help the Jets. Not that you didn't improve in other areas, but you got lucky in that respect. The Wildcat and the return of Ricky Williams didn't hurt a bit either, which is a good illustration about how switching schemes can help. Not sure if the Wildcat is going to be so effective anymore. Tom Brady getting hurt helped.

Looks like you didn't quite do enough to cause a lasting effect since you went 7-9 the very next year. Picking up Dansby and Marshall will definitely help. Not sure if you have the answer at QB, either. We'll see what happens.

We also got a new front office. We are changing schemes. We cut away some dead weight. Our plan is long term, but I expect we will be much improved this year anyway. I don't expect we'll be the most injured team in the league this year, either. Yeah, that sounds like an excuse, but you can't overlook how it affects a team when it happens as much as it has to Buffalo. #1 injured team last year by far and at least top 3 the year before. No more club Jauron. A new strength and conditioning program is in place.

 

Your man cave looks great!!

 

I don't hate the Bills at all. They are going to be screwed over for a long, long time...Don't expect them to make the playoffs in the next decade.

But the Dolphins...That's a whole other story. The Dolphins are building a dynasty. Too bad Bills players can't make a living off watching the Dolphins in the playoffs from home.

 

Opposing QB rating when throwing against:
Sean Smith: 116
Vontae Davis: 105
Tracy Porter: 57
Jabari Greer: 52

Men lie, women lie......numbers don't