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Trent Dilfer on Henne vs. Sanchez

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PS17, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    exactly
     
  2. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    "It has come to my attention, via the Football Today podcast when Tim Graham was a guest, that there is much debate as to who is the second-best quarterback in the AFC East behind Tom Brady. Is it Mark Sanchez or Chad Henne? Tim and I debated it briefly on the podcast, but here are my more expansive thoughts on the subject.

    Personally, I would take Henne. He wins by a landslide, actually. Granted, Henne’s accomplishments in terms of leading his Miami Dolphins are not as impressive as what the New York Jets did last season. But to me, Sanchez wasn’t the force behind the Jets’ drive to the AFC Championship Game. I am not discounting Sanchez’s rookie-season accomplishments, but I just contend that quarterback was far from an area of strength for the 2009 Jets.
    "

    Full Story
     
    Larry Little and Boik14 like this.
  3. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    and ROFL @ "athletic ability"

    ...Quinn/Russell/Marcus Vick had plenty of that.
     
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I
    there's only so much Rex can make up for. He's a very good defensive coach but he cannot make up for age and inability. Ellis and Jenkins and pohua are the only good defensive linemen they have and one is coming off a busted knee and the other is coming off hand surgery. Pohua is ideally a reserve.

    Henne threw three in the buffalo game late which distorts his ratio. I'm not worried about him. But bringing in Owens opposite Marshall couldn't hurt as Owens has a knack for the end zone.
     
  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You see those games more often with young QBs. Sanchez had more of those games as a rookie. It expect that they should decrease in his second season. Likewise with Henne, he had fewer of those games than Sanchez, but he was in his second season. I expect that Henne will improve on that in his 3rd season. The general rule of thumb is that it takes a QB about 1000 passes for him to get comfortable. That usually takes about three years. Henne will be almost there after this year. I would guess about 900+ total. Sanchez will be there after two more seasons. At that point we'll be able to reasonably compare these guys on a more even basis.
     
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  6. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting that Dilfer's AYPA in the Ravens' super bowl year was 5.5, which is exactly the same as Henne's this last season. So Dilfer was not efficient that year. He had a good running game and a great defense, much like Sanchez did last season.
     
  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Indeed

    Like this just screams "fast twitch"
    [​IMG]
    my apologies for this being the 100th time I've posted the image
     
    Frumundah Finnatic and resnor like this.
  8. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Don't be bro that picture never gets old. :tongue2:
     
  9. PS17

    PS17 NYJ 2010!!!

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    Yes, because one year defines quarterbacks' whole careers. :rolleyes:
     
  10. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I gotta admit this is going to be a great debate this year and for years to come.
     
  11. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    You gotta admit though that picking up Jake Long in the first and Henne in the second of the same draft made a bigger impact on our team than trading away picks and players and only getting Sanchez.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Pat White is a elite athlete, which did not show up out on the field in 2009, and one of the reasons why I believe he will be greatly improved this season.

    White did not set NCAA rushing records for Qb's and suddenly become slow and indecisive, and he threw the ball better at the combine than Dilfer's Sanchez.
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nope, it doesn't, but there aren't a whole lot of players who had as terrible a rookie season as Sanchez did who went on to be any good. Fewer still when you take out guys who played before the 70's.
     
  14. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Well that makes sense seeing as both of them are women who happened to have some sort of growth resembling a *****.
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I would think that if you looked at guys who were thrown in as rookies that you'd find Sanchez' stats to be fairly typical even among guys who became great.

    Here's a list of the HOF QBs who started as rookies right out of college since 1970. I only showed the guys who attempted at least 100 passes and I used HOF QBs since I don't think anybody will argue that these guys weren't good:

    QB Att comp yds TDs INTs Rat

    Steve Young: 138 72 935 3 8 56.9
    T. Bradshaw: 218 83 1410 6 24 30.4
    J. Elway: 259 123 1663 7 14 54.9
    T. Aikman: 293 155 1745 9 18 55.7
    D. Marino: 296 173 2210 20 6 96.0
    D. Fouts: 194 87 1126 6 13 46.0

    (I didn't include J. Kelly and W. Moon b/c those guys got to play as pros before their NFL rookie years).

    Sanchez: 364 196 2444 12 20 63

    Basically there were 6 guys who fit that criteria. One had a better rookie season than Sanchez. The other five did worse. I'm not saying he's destined for the HOF, that would be unreasonable. But it is far more unreasonable to claim that his rookie year stats show he won't even be good. The fact is that many QBs who got forced into action as rookies had poor stats but later turned out to be good. In fact you could say that about most of the HOF QBs who started their rookie years in 1970 or later. (There would probably be even more before 1970, but I only looked post-1970 b/c that was the criteria you set out).
     
  16. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    At first, it bugged me to read these comparisons, after only a year under either's belts, but now I sorta like it. I see the attention as a sign of respect that people are beginning to notice our division is being set up for the future with solid quarterbacks and competition.

    Brady will be around for a few more years. Are Henne/Sanchez comparable to Manning/Marino who will set passing records? No. But both of them are good enough to develop into Superbowl QBs with a good support cast, hopefully multiple like Brady. Honestly, not many teams can say they have long term confidence at their quarterback position.

    I saw enough good throws from both to think that they'll both be good for years to come. I may hate the Jets, but Sanchez did pretty well for a rookie quarterback without a Pennington to help him out for a year. I think people are jaded in what they expect from a rookie quarterback because of the Ryan/Flacco Effect, which was *not* the norm for rookie quarterbacks.

    The Jets and Dolphins both have good coaches, good FO people, and nice young developing talent & quarterbacks. I'm way more looking forward to the next 5+ years of competitive football, compared to the last 7 years of analysts sucking off new england.
     
  17. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That handful of players that actually meet those qualifications don't come anywhere close to "typical".

    I threw 1970 out there without realizing Bradshaw and Fouts just made the cut, but the point clearly stands, about half of the sample size is made up of guys who didn't play anything close to the modern game.

    Even if your magical thinking in regards to those guys Sanchez' career path might apply to holds true, only Aikman is even halfway viable... Sanchez would be out of the league a long time before he got the time Steve Young, John Elways, etc. took.
     
  18. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Some of those guys you listed played on truly horrific teams.

    Bradshaw's Steelers were terrible. They were coming off a 1-13 season and had won 3 games in two years.

    Steve Young had 2 seasons in the USFL (if Kelly and Moon are discounted because of previous experience then why is Young allowed in the discussion) and he also played for the Bucs. Those Buc teams were historically bad.

    Troy Aikman played for maybe the worst team in the 1990's.

    The point I'm trying to make is Sanchez was playing for a damn good team and put up terrible numbers. Some of the guys you listed played for such bad teams they would have needed to be super human to put up reputable numbers.
     
  19. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You have to understand something, Bradshaw played on a run first elite D team with a HOF WR in Swann. Young was taught by Joe Montana (not Kellen Clemens) and had Jerry Rice and TO, Aikman wasn't even that great with a HOF RB and WR (not one 4,000 yard season). Dan Fouts came into a system with arguably the best TE ever and TE is a great safety net for QB's, he also had a great offensive mind in Coryell. He also had a stud WR. John Elway was given a supporting cast every year. He was taken care of. His coaches would have kept Thomas Jones. Dan Marino was touched by an angel at birth on his throwing arm. All those players are GREAT QB's. They are elite for sure. Aside from Marino and Elway, I think they could never have had the same success on a middle of the road team though. 4 out of those 6 guys can be argued to have been system QB's. They ended up in the right city and the team played to their strengths. I see Sanchez as that system QB who will only be good if his mistakes are absorbed by excellent supporting play. I see Sanchez as the type of guy who will need check downs and a ball hogging Slot WR if not to get yards, but to boost his confidence. He seems prone to mistakes and I don't see him excelling of his own accord. Too bad he's with the Jest, they like to cut corners.
     
  20. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Way too early for anyone to say or know which one will be the better, they may both be top tier franchise QB's for many years to come. Dilfer doesn't know any more than you or I do, nor will the question truly be answered for at LEAST one more season.

    Personally, I'll take Henne, but who the heck am I to judge?

    One thing I just can't help though, every time I see a photo of pretty boy Sanchez, I can't help but think someday he'll come out of the closet and announce he's gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that, most of my friends are gay because I do so much acting in theater. I know I'm way off base here, I just seem to think I have good "gaydar" from knowing so many gay men & women. I apologize up front if I have offended anyone, I'm just telling like I feel it. My wife has better "gaydar" than I do and I asked her, she said she agrees with me, the second she saw his picture. Probably because he seems so in love with himself.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Last minute of the biggest game of our year..Monday nite agaist the Jets...Henne, and this offense was incredible in the last 7 minutes of that game....people need to refresh their memories..kid flashed big time skills...somethin like 22 of 28 bout 280 yards and 2 TD'S, no picks..
     
  22. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    :deadhorse: Henne is better. He has always been better and he always will be better.

    Goodnight.
     
  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    "Magical thinking"? The fact is that QBs who are forced to play as rookies struggle the vast majority of the time. They have great games and horrible games. The only people who don't realize that are having their opinion skewed by some recent anomalies. If you've followed football for a long time, then you should know this isn't even a question. If you want to say that you think NY may lose patience while Sanchez develops you're entitled to that opinion and a different debate. But there is no support for the idea that Sanchez had a worse statistical showing than most QBs who started as rookies, even the one that turned out great.
     
  24. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I should have dropped Young. I forgot about the USFL.

    The point I'm making is that it doesn't matter how good the team is, most rookie QBs struggle. They have great moments and idiotic moments, just like Sanchez did. Even the ones who turn out to be HOF great.
     
  25. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Bro

    Sanchez has the "it" factor; your argument is invalid.
     
  26. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing you're being sarcastic, but I saw the "it" factor from both Sanchez and Henne in that game. Both guys kept making plays to bring their teams back. Some want to pretend that our defense was bad at all times, but that simply wasn't true. Our defense was playing well, they were just being beat by offensive players that were making plays.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I get the feeling this Henne/Sanchez thing is going to go on for a long time and be very annoying.

    Overall Sanchez was like a top 5 pick and Chad Henne was a mid-2nd rounder. The NFL obviously thought Sanchez was the better prospect and they had reason to. I was not a huge Henne buyer coming out of school and I was definitely not a Sanchez buyer. It's a good question but I doubt we can say that either player has put the other away to this point in their respective careers.

    The only thing we can say is that Chad Henne's head looks like a pill and Mark Sanchez has a penchant for taking gay pictures and doing things that are very suggestive of him being gay.

    Either way I'm not sure I'm trusting Trent Dilfer's input on the matter.
     
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  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    :sidelol:
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The fact that the national media is debating this with such fervor, tells me that from a value standpoint we win big time, Chad was a late 2nd rounder, who Imo, was much better at the qb position, mechanically, fundamentally, in their first year of starting...Henne's arm as I have said last year, the moment he walked on the field, is the best in the game, we must take this gift from the gods, seriously...It is a weapon in this offense, and does create more space for other's, on its own.

    So let's see question, for the board?, from the data that we have on these cat's..Henne, with that right arm, that ability to throw on the run, to be that calm, in clutch situations, that we've already seen, comparing the work ethic, the situation he has been placed in {Penny as a tutor} strait up, if I had to make a decision on the 2 again, knowing what I know now...I'll take Henne over the TOP 10 draft pick..

    The fact that we got the Premiere Left tackle in the game, and, that I would take Henne over Sanchez at this point..That is just tremendous value for our franchise, and something Jet fans should take seriously as well.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think it's already a given that the Dolphins got good value in Henne, I mean Brian Brohm was taken just before Chad and he's only just now competing for the start...and the chances aren't awesome that he'll get it.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That wasn't the question CK, it was who would you take strait up moving forward, with 1 year of starting film to study?

    I had Sanchez going top 10 when he came out, I loved his feet, and the way he competed... Henne just flashed a bigger ceiling for me last year. especially considering I feel his body had, and has, much room to develope...and I know you know that, so taking all that into account, who would you take?
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That WAS the question. You just said that the fact that the two are being compared so closely while Sanchez was taken high and Henne taken mid-2nd shows Miami got the better value.

    So yeah, what I said was perfectly relevant to what you had just got done saying.
     
  33. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Alpha males don't throw hissy fits and cry on the sidelines when they have a bad game.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    that wasn't the question i was trying to convey, hopefully you didn't take my tone out of context..It was a genuine reiteration..If I wasn't clear, I'll paste what I wrote.

    So let's see the question, for the board?, from the data that we have on these cat's..Henne, with that right arm, that ability to throw on the run, to be that calm, in clutch situations, that we've already seen, comparing the work ethic, the situation he has been placed in {Penny as a tutor}, strait up?.. if I had to make a decision on the 2 again, knowing what I know now...I'll take Henne over the TOP 10 draft pick.
    .
     
  35. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Alpha males don't use yellow mustard on the sidelines either.
    Spicy mustard dammit! :pity:
     
  36. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    When did Sanchez ever do that? (just curious)
     

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