THE OFFICIAL MIAMI HEAT SUMMER of 2010 Thread.

He should be more afraid of his lacksidasical performance on a game to game basis. Not a player I like a whole lot.

 

I think Curtis was full of it. I don't see anything about Chandler on ESPN or anywhere else.

 

maybe it's because he's always injured?

idk, because i didn't seen him play last year (are the bobcats ever on tv?), but when he was a bull / hornet he always ran the floor, defended well and was a rebounding machine. i'd love to have a player like that at the 5 to go with bosh.

 

chad ford said chandler might opt out in his blog:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16662/chandler-a-free-agent-in-2010

 

Yeah, but that's speculation, not a confirmation.

 

I'd love to get Chandler at a reasonable price. I'd be willing to give him 3-4 years but not at $10 million plus per season.

4 for 28 sounds about right to me.

 

OR

Bosh and James?

 

I'd have to think long and hard about Bosh/Amare plus Salmons and Chandler.

Whether we get Bosh or amare we need a defensive center with shot blocking/rebounding skills backing them up. Maybe you can get by with a Joel Anthony, but I don't know.

 

I agree and I'd be all over 4 for 28, but why would chandler leave 12.6 million next year for that contract?

i love rudy gay, but salmons and chandler to go with bosh and wade is an absolute no brainer. i don't think there's enough money to go around though. if we resign udonis (~2 mil with the wink wink of mle next year), keep the first round pick (~1.5 mil), and joel anthony picks up his option (~1 mil), chandler and salmons would have to sign for about 8-9 million combined.


edit: i guess trading beasley would free up another ~4.5 million. if that were the case, i'm all for it.

 

I think #1 fan said it best, you have to go with the latter in that scenario.

 

It does make sense... for the Knicks. Why would San Antonio completely waste another year of Tim Duncan's aging prime? That's what that trade would do. Eddy Curry is dead weight. He can't even contribute 10 minutes to a playoff basketball team. Wilson Chandler is a nice young player (nothing special at all), but talent wise he's a notch below Tony Parker and would play a reserve role until Richard Jefferson is gone. Overall, San Antonio would be ridding themselves of one of their best players and getting a solid young reserve (future starter at SF) in return. Doesn't seem like something that would entice San Antonio. I can't see Pop & Duncan agreeing on throwing an entire season away in hopes for landing a stud in 2011. Duncan is 34 and Ginobili is 33. I can't see that happening.

I've read that the Spurs would want David Lee in any Tony Parker/Knicks deal to pair him with Duncan in the front court. The concept DOES WORK, but simply wouldn't favor the Knicks tremendously like the other concept would.

San Antonio can get much more for Tony Parker. They'd be stupid to do that deal. I'm sure they can get better and younger talent, draft picks, and/or a useful expiring player. I don't see why the Spurs would make a deal simply to help the New York Knicks.... which is the basis of a Curry/Chandler for Parker swap.

 

I doubt we can get either of the two without making a trade. Joe Johnson will command at least $12 million (due to not showing up in the playoffs), but some desperate team that fails on the big guys could end up offering him the max or close to it. Memphis on the other hand will likely match any offer sheet up to around $12-13 million per for Rudy Gay.

With Johnson and Gay getting deals like that, I would be surprised to see John Salmons settle for less than $8-10 million per season. Tyson Chandler on the other end is a very cocky person, and he's openly stated before (after his first "decent" season) that he feels as though he's a max player and should be making the max. Early on, he's probably going to be asking for around that $10 million per range, and he's not worth more than mid level money honestly.

I'd love to get Salmons for $8 million and Chandler for $6 million after making a trade to shed some cap (perhaps pick + Cook or pick/cook + Jones), though.

Although, I'm perfectly fine with......

Wade = $17.5 million
Bosh = $17.5 million
Haywood = $7 million
Miller = $3 million
Blake = $3 million
Wright = minimum
Arroyo = minimum
Bell = minimum


G - Blake / Chalmers / Arroyo
G - Wade / Bell
F - Miller / Wright
F - Bosh / Beasley
C - Haywood / Anthony

Or would you prefer...

G - Chalmers / Arroyo
G - Wade / Bell
F - Johnson / Wright
F - Bosh / Beasley
C - Anthony / ?

Or...

G - Chalmers / Arroyo
G - Wade / Bell
F - Salmons / Wright
F - Bosh / Beasley
C - Chandler / Anthony

In all scenarios, BTW, Miami has to package James Jones with Cook and/or pick(s). This would also work out if Miami acquires Bosh or one of the other players via sign-and-trade, of course using Beasley + Jones + Cook which = $10-12 million.

 

We have Vince Carter for one more year. We won't be doing anything important till the 2011 season.

 

Chandler plays well when he feels like it. Hes not a guy I would ever want on the Knicks. If you guys want him, by all means take him.

Rudy by a long shot. Joe Johnson would be the second choice. Id try and find a trade scenario before I even bothered with Chandler. Come to think of it, Id sooner take Al Jefferson's contract before dishing out an even worse one to Chandler. At least Jefferson was good.

Its not a deal to imply help the Knicks. Look at it from a Spurs perspective. LAL is going to be the class of the west for a while and the spurs cant beat them with the group they have at this point. No way, no how is that happening unless kobe breaks an ankle in mid series. The Spurs have no real tradeable assets other then Parker. No one is taking Duncan and Ginobli with their contracts for the foreseeable future because of their age even though theyre still pretty good. So the only way to acquire more talent is to create cap space. How are the Spurs going to do that? the same way the Knicks and Heat are trying to do so. Free agency. But unless the Spurs move one of the three they wont be able to do much even with Jefferson's contract expiring because having Parker means you still have a no room for nothing more then a Junior Max at best in 2011. By the time Parker, Ginobli and Duncan are in the final year of their deals they will be a combined 110 years old making around 45M between the 3. To avoid that scenario one of them must go. Parker will bring the most in return because hes the youngest and has the most reasonable contract. And they cant deal Duncan or we'll have riots in San Antonio because Timmy is that franchise.

Also from a Spurs perspective there's one thing they really lack aside Ginobli....3's. George Hill can shoot them. Tony Parker cannot. George Hill is a better defender then Parker as well. If you watched their series vs Phoenix over and over again the only guys who showed an ability to extend the defense were Bonner and Hill.

We know Curry is a sloth. But hes an expiring sloth so he has value. Chandler at this point is at least as good as Jefferson and he plays defense. The Knicks arent signing and trading Lee without moving Curry because there's no way theyre giving up the ability to sign 2 Max guys for Tony Parker. And they shouldnt. Hes a nice player but hes not worth that. But he does fit D'Antoni's system.

Doing it that way the Spurs get talent and cap space. They get to move a young player in to the starting lineup up (Hill) and have another one, Chandler challenge Jefferson for a starting spot and in my opinion Chandler would win. Thats not my Knicks bias, thats RJ being half the player he once was. The Spurs become a more versatile team and a better defensive team. The Knicks get a pre-free agency enticement for Lebron and Bosh. I'm betting it happens at the draft.

 

As of right now Orlando is in best shape to be the team to beat in the East next year, as I think we're definitely witnessing Boston's final run... of course, pending on what Miami, Chicago, New York, New Jersey, and Cleveland do this summer.

 

Fair enough. I can't really disagree with any of that. I just find it hard to believe that San Antonio can't get a more useful expiring player + better young talent for Parker via trade. If it happens, it happens though. It certainly helps New York's free agent attraction, but Wade/Beasley, Rose/Noah, and in fact Harris/Lopez/Turner are still much more enticing than Parker/Gallinari, IMO. Would be a solid piece added to the equation for New York, though.

Going to the Knicks right now remains the biggest risk for a free agent looking to win now. Even with Tony Parker added I still think other teams are positioned to be better right off the bat.

 

BTW... Wade is working his *** off right now in order to secure Bosh and Joe Johnson.

It also looks like Darren Collison is on the block as expected (per ESPN)... but of course he'll come with Okafor or Peja. I'd really, really, really be interested in Beasley, Jones, Cook, picks for Okafor and Collison. Would still have enough cap space to sign Bosh or Amare, as well as an additional amount of space to fill out the roster.

I'm not even sure Beasley would need to be included, or if they'd even be interested in him. It looks like New Orleans is willing to move Collison just to clear Okafor and/or Peja off the books.

 

The only option that you list that would be more attractive then ny would be Miami because wade is a stud. At none of those other locations could lebron bring bosh or amare or whoever he wants with him.

Gallo + parker > Noah and rose.
Nets aren't getting turner at three. They're getting cousins or favors. Gallo and parker are at least = to Harris and lopez if not slightly better.

And again none of those other destinations other then Miami can offer what the knicks can offer. It's basically a game of build your own team for lebron.

 

I wasn't talking about simply attracting a pair (i.e. Bosh + LeBron). I was more so speaking on general attraction.

But there is no way on the face of this earth that Parker/Gallinari is a better pair than Rose/Noah. First of all, Derrick Rose is clearly the best player out of the four being compared. Noah vs. Gallinari isn't even debatable. Noah is a big time shot blocker and a near guaranteed double double on a nightly basis. Gallinari is just a shooter; that's all. Rose/Noah will be a damn good PG/C duo for the next 10 years, which by the way just happens to be the two toughest positions in the league to fill. I feel the same about Harris/Lopez. It's not even close.

Tony Parker is good, but not great. Kind of overrated, really. Rose is already the better player and has a few more years left of development.

Also, an admitted brain freeze on the Nets/Turner point. For a second I thought they were picking #2.

 

Bosh I'd be okay with. Joe Johnson... why?

 

Except that Noah as an offensive player is trash. He does a lot of dirty work which you need but he has zero offensive moves. I like him but no chance he is better then a 21 year old gallinari who made huge strides on both ends of the court this year. Gallo shows an ability to create his own shot and hit from anywhere. He's much tougher then your typical European player and he has shown the mental toughness to take and make the big shot.

I would say rose is more talented then parker but parker is more of a natural pg. Parker is a much better passer as well. Rose dominates the ball at times, though its out of necessity occasionally.

 

Anymore you need three solid player to compete. Look at the two teams in the finals right now. Kobe,Gasol, Bynum. KG,Allen, Pierce. Have to keep up with the Jones's.

 

Well I mean Johnson does average 20 a night and he's a solid passer...shoots a decent percentage too. The fact he can create his own shot is a nice bonus.

 

I don't dispute the need for a third person. I dispute the need for Joe Johnson. He's on the bottom of my list of desired players.

 

Rose doesn't have Duncan, Ginobili, and Richard Jefferson to pass the ball to. He's a much better passer, IMO. He's also better at getting to the basket and creating contact, and he's improving defensively as well. Parker is only a better shooter and leader to me.

Also, I'd take Noah over Gallinari any day of the week. In fact, I'd take all of the players mentioned over Gallinari. Gallinari, like I said, is only a shooter. I've seen him play several times and nothing else about his game sticks out to me one bit. He's a horrible defender from what I've seen and is always out of position. I'd take Noah's defensive dominance (at times, and against the best in the game) in the paint, and his willingness to improve offensively. Noah is an all effort player; he never gives up. Although his post moves are limited, the work he does around the rim enable him to get easy buckets, much like Dwight Howard but obviously he isn't as strong nor athletic.

I think you're wearing the same homer hat I wear with Dorell Wright... with Gallinari.

 

I don't see why. He's one of the better scorers in the league, he can pretty much shoot the three from anywhere on the floor, plays solid defense when he wants to, runs the floor like a PG at 6'7/240, and can take over a game if needed. He failed to show up in the postseason as a first option in Atlanta, but he'd be the third option here behind Wade and Bosh. He's the perfect player to compliment a Wade/Bosh duo, and he's also the perfect player to take over the slack whenever Wade has an off night.

There is a reason why Wade and LeBron always mention Joe Johnson somewhere in their lists.

 

Riley would prefer Rudy Gay but he'll be much more difficult to acquire due to being restricted. I really don't see Memphis matching the $13.1 maximum, but it'd put the team in a hole for 7 days, so we really can't afford to jump on Gay until LeBron, Bosh, Amare, Booz, Salmons, and Joe Johnson are all inked. He's pretty much the last ditch gamble, IMO.

 

What is the name of the Bulls board?

 

rose isn't without talent to pass the ball to. Deng can shoot, as could Salmons. when he was there. It's not Duncan and ginobli but few players are. Also please omit Jefferson from the discussion....he was awful last year. His jumping ability/ ability to finish just vanished and he couldn't drain open jumpers all year. Parker has a big leadership edge and an edge as a natural pg. Rose has more natural athletic ability but from what I have seen does not make his teammates better in the same way that parker does. I happen to like rose but he still has a lot of time to get better. If I had the choice between the two I'd lean towards rose long term but parker short term.


Regarding gallinari, he as a 21 year old accepted the challenge of guarding the oppositions best players last year when no one else would. I saw him get lit up by kobe but I also saw him lock up Joe Johnson twice, igoduala twice, pierce once among others. His length gives players fits at times and what he lacks in lateral quickness he makes up for in effort. He wants to be a good defender. A lot of people forget that last year was his first full season after having his rookie year cut short after twenty or so games. He takes on and accepts a lot of leadership responsibilities on both ends of the court and he's still a pup. It's not even a debate between he and Noah. Noahs only value is in the position he plays and his effort on defense. He cannot play both ends of the court.

 

Dude check out a few Toronto Raptors boards... they (meaning most if not all of them) actually think that it's Bosh recruiting Wade, and Wade will be had via sign-and-trade for Hedo and Bargnani, which they believe is equal and fair value for Miami.

Raptors fans on RealGM in the last 4-5 years have been as bad as your average Patriots or Jets fan.

 

If Noah's only value is being a true center and a great post defender, I'll take that over Gallinari any day of the week and twice come postseason. Those are two GREAT qualities to have in a player, and much more difficult to find than a shooter. I honestly don't believe you're giving a fair assessment. It really sounds like you're leaning towards the Knicks favor in every step of the debate (which is fine, because you're a Knicks fan and we all have some type of bias towards our teams). You're making Gallinari out to be much more than he really is. There is a reason why most Knicks fans are still pissed about passing over Lopez, Gordon, Augustin, and even Bayless.

I'm not too sure you've seen much of Noah because he is NOT a liability offensively AT ALL. He's always around the ball. Always. He gives 110% effort and is the one and only reason for the majority of Chicago's second chance points. I admit that I was wrong about Noah coming into his draft class... I thought he'd be a one dimensional hustle player, but he's worked his *** off to prove to be much more than that. Still improving.

Rose vs. Parker is a dead case to me because I don't even think that's really a question. I wouldn't even consider taking Parker over Rose. The argument that Rose doesn't make his teammates better is invalid to me; his teammates are trash and he's the ONLY player on that basketball team that can create his own shot. San Antonio, aside from Parker, has four others who can create their own shots... and one of them is the reason why Parker has been made available via trade.

 

Same reason I'm slightly hesitant about Bosh: I think he'll get paid and mail it in. Weren't Hawks fans angry with him over that very thing in the playoffs?

 

That proposal is hilariously awful. Wade is easily one of the four best players in the league, maybe the best depending on what year.

I'll clear one thing up immediately...I felt Gallinari would have been a top 2 selection had he been an American born college selection and this was long before the Knicks selected him. By the end of this year he will be a top 30 player in the league regardless of who the Knicks get in free agency. He made huge strides as the year went along so you may have been watching a different player if you watched him at the start of the year, mid season and by the end of the year. If you watched three random games from say November, January and March you wouldnt recognize the player. I wanted Gallinari for the Knicks that year...Lopez was a distant second choice. And like I said Gallo is still only 21. Those other guys you mention are all at least 1-2 years older. And Augustin may not even make the Cats roster next year. He cant shoot or play defense a lick so whoever wanted him never watched basketball. Gordon is good, Lopez is very good (better then Noah actually).

You think a great defender is harder to find then a great jump shooter? No problem. You find me five consistent jump shooters in the entire league that shoot a high percentage, extend the defense and can hit from almost anywhere on a court. I'll count them one hand for you...Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Dirk, Kobe, and Danilo Gallinari. There may be a couple others but there arent many. Just about every team has at least 1 very good defender. Most teams cant even find one good jump shooter. Noah is good but hes not irreplaceable.

Noah definitely hustles and that is his greatest strength as an offensive player. He cant shoot jumpers and he cant play with his back to the basket. he can finish but he's kinda of marcus camby-like in that when he goes in to half court sets he disappears. I watched Id say 20-25 bulls games this year so Id say I have a pretty good handle on what type of player he is. Guess we are seeing different things.

As for Parker Vs Rose...We'll have to agree to disagree. The only reason I see Parker as being on the block is because of the age of that team and what the team needs right now. They have a younger, cheaper alternative at PG who is a good player though a step down from Parker. They have Jefferson at SF who player horribly and Bonner at PF/C who is a role player. They need to upgrade at least one of the two spots. Parker's contract is the one most moveable to do so. Rose is good, but Im not so sure Id be so quick to take him over a more efficient player who shoots a better %, makes his teammates better and has played a big role in multiple championships.

 

Sucks that D-Wade is sitting at the finals watching instead of being in them with the Heat.

 

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi..._plans_begin_with_finding_right_fit_for_heat/

 

May as well agree to disagree because the argument will just never end. I've watched all of the players listed quite a bit, and I am not a very big fan of Gallo's at all and there's no way I'd even consider Parker/Gallo over Rose/Noah.

 

I can't believe this... http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5290610