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Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by alen1, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Word is Vince fired Danielson himself over the phone, as opposed to going through the usual chain of command with Laurinitas.

    My official opinion? This was real, but the backlash is such that, it will turn into an angle and they will bring him back, much like the original Matt Hardy rebel angle. When he was released, the internet had such a backlash, that Vince had no coice but to hire him back and made a fortune on the Edge/Hardy feud. Granted, it prbably could have been milked for further, but the point was, that he had to cave and bring him back.

    I expect the same with Danielson, which, will probably lead to him being a bigger star in the long run. Assuming o course, that this actually happens instead of just firing him, making him sit on the sidelines for three months and then having him go back to the indies.
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Did the WWE really make that much money off the angle? Obviously the angle/feud made Edge into a huge heel star for the company but outside of the first month (especially Hardy's initial return) and match, I don't really remember the feud doing really well. I could be wrong, since it was almost 5 years ago but I didn't think it really drew, I think it could have been better if the WWE let Hardy actually win a match or two against Edge instead of just turning him into a jobber.

    I agree with the rest, this has potential to turn Danielson into a big star, assuming the WWE does hire him back, and really they should. If Danielson has to go to ROH or TNA, I think he'll be forgotten by the average WWE fan in a few months andif/ when he did come back he wouldn't have the impact.

    My question is how should/would the WWE bring him back in terms of kayfabe.
     
  3. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    More Danielson stuff:

    - According to Pwinsider.com, the word going around the "WWE hierarchy" is that Bryan Danielson was released due to breaking the "don't do anything related to Chris Benoit" rule. Danielson broke the rule when he choked out announcer Justin Roberts with the tie that Roberts was wearing. Basically, if this whole thing is a work, WWE is working people very high up in the company to do so.

    If true I guess it's ok for Triple H or Shawn Michaels to use the Crippler Crossface but not ok for someone to choke someone else with a tie? How is that even remotely related to Chris Benoit? This stuff keeps getting weirder, I think it's a work now.
     
  4. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Exactly, last thing i thought when i watched that was Chris Beniot. I remember telling my buddy that it looks like Danielson was really hurting the Ring announcer, but if Orton did this, he would still have a job. I read that on the 91 day of his no compete clause, he will get rehired so WWE had to fire him to cover their ***, which makes me think, if this was the Undertaker or Orton or anyone high up, they would still have their job. I was never a huge fan of Danielson but now i like him, so this was good for his career in the long run in my opinion! Hes the most talked about wrestler out there now
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The thing is though Danielson needs to get back into the spotlight asap. If he has to wait 90 days to get back on TV, whether it's with the WWE or TNA all the buzz around him will be lost. He needs to strike while he's still a name otherwise in 3 months no one will remember him because he's not established yet. The best thing for him would be if the WWE calls him up and rehires him and puts him back on TV tonight, even if he's just sitting at ringside as a 'fan'.
     
  6. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    They made a ton of money on that feud. PPV buys, house show attendance and of course, it is the angle that turned Edge into the true star and character he is still playing to this day.

    They have made a mint off of that original angle.

    As for Danielson, if this IS fake...I keep him off tv for this entire week. Keep floating odd little stories about why he is/was fired. Have Danielson "start up" an online campaign to have a bunch of his fans buy tickets for the next RAW and that he will buy a ticket himself.

    Then refuse to let him in.

    Then have him do it again the following week, explaining that he will use his WWE downside guarantee (that he would receive for three months during his no compete clause) to fund these trips. Meanwhile, you give him permission to wrestle for indy feds, let him book a couple of dates to make it look legit.

    Then, after about two or three weeks of not letting him into the building. Have him find away in (maybe he grows his beard back or something), has a ticket way up in the nosebleeds (or anywhere NOT in the first row) and start chants, signs to pass out and generally be an obnoxious dick. Maybe have him throw something at a wrestler and have security throw him out.

    The key of course, is not not show him, at least not on purpose.

    I then have Vince come out the following week, explain that due to certain rogue "fans," and bitter ex employees, that security will be heightened and drastic measures taken for anyone who dares disrupt the show. Danielson is screaming at him from the crowd again, finally getting Vince's attention, who tries to diffuse the situation, but is ultimately punched by an out of control Danielson who is then bumrushed and taken out.

    You have Vince NOT press charges and then float a story about how Vince is incensed but rumor has it that he had a meeting with Danielson later in the week. The rumor grows that an agreement has been worked out for Danielson to return as a way "to keep him under Vince's thumb."

    In his first match, Danielson is introduced, then Hornswoggle is introduced as his opponent. After a very brief encounter, Danielson hits the deck, absorbs the tadpole splash, gets pinned. He immediately gets up and fires off a kick that damn near takes Hornswoggle's head off and grabs a mic.

    He goes on to explain that he was fired for being too real for this company. He was fired for being too violent and too extreme. In a company that based itself on having "attitude," he was fired for having too much of it. Stone Cold was never fired for beating up anybody. Mick Foley was never fired for being too extreme and The Rock never got ****canned for saying what he felt.

    But somehow, Bryan Danielson, the undersized, sub-200 pound wrestler from Aberdeen, Washington scared everyone and brought this corporation to its knees within a matter of months. And when he was unjustfully and wrongly fired, he declared war on the WWE. He interrupted their broadcasts, he fought their Superstars from the crowd and raised hell all over the country to make sure no one forgot. To make sure everyone remembered just who the hell he was and what he is capable of.

    That is, until, Vince got scared. So scared in fact, that he had no choice but to try and buy off Bryan Danielson. To make him a sellout and pay him to stop. So what did Danielson do? He took the money. He signed his WWE contract and took the money. He promised McMahon that he would play by Vince's rules, and do whatever he was told.

    (at this point I have Hornswoggle being helped out from ringside by a couple of medical people and Danielson push them aside and knee Hornswoggle in the face, knocking him out further)

    But guess what? He won't do that. He CAN'T do that. No when the WWE employs and promotes useless toads and un-entertaining people like Hornswoggle. Not when the WWE continues to insult their fans intelligence with lousy guest hosts, unfunny skits and terrible wrestlers. SO until that changes, or until Danielson's contract runs out (which, by the way, won't be for a LONG time), Danielson will continue to kick people's heads in, and he doesn't care WHO stands in his way.

    As he says the last part, he turns and looks at Michael Cole, who drops his headphones and walks quickly away from the announce table, as Danielson smirks.

    Commercial.

    I would go with a whole Pillman vibe to the entire thing.
     
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  7. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Dude, we need to get you working in WWE's writing staff.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    He can't, he has a brain for the business. They only hire sitcom writers now, hence why the product hasn't been good for awhile now.
     
  9. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    zing!
     
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  10. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    what did they say about bryan danielson?
     
  11. Phinvader Bill

    Phinvader Bill The all new Mr. Event

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    The NXT guys said that he was feeling remorse, and that he would never be seen there again.
     
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  12. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    thats stupid
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Just means if/when he returns he'll be a face going against the other NXT guys.
     
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  14. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    what I was thinking.
     
  15. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Ok so choking someone is worse than taking someone hostage and putting them in a backseat of a limo and having the limo crash into a bunch of other limos/cars? This incident reminds me way too much of the Princess Diana crash, let's complain to the WWE and get a few more wrestlers fired.
     
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  16. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Hypocrites
     
  17. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I lawled.
     
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  18. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Read the Raw report, didn't see it. Sounded like it was a weak explanation to dismiss Bryan, which is actually too bad since they knew they had to address it but chose to skim over it. That leads me to believe that he is out and out for a good long while.

    It would be great to see him show up in TNA or ROH, but if he goes to TNA, then he will have to wait three months and absolutely torch his WWE bridge. Not sure if Bryan has it in him to do that.
     
  19. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    yeah since A, WWE is where the money is at, and B, the company is pretty much guaranteed to be there in 10 years, TNA/ROH, who knows.
     
  20. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Top indy stars can make as much, if not more than the standard WWE downside guarantee. Of course, the high end of the pay scale of the WWE (and the notoriety that comes with being a wrestler there) cannot be beat.

    But honestly, a ton of guys make a pretty decent living being indy guys. But it is a tough lifestyle to say the least. It beat me down quickly.

    Danielson is one of the good guys in the sport and typically not one to want to try and burn bridges, which is more of what I meant. I don't think you will see him pull a Paul London who flat out said,"I will be happier when Vince McMahon is dead." He nuked his bridge.
     
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  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Word is the WWE was considering the NXT gang as the ones who attacked The Undertaker but now they're going towards it being (surprise surprise) Kane, and them having a 5 star classic Casket Match at Summer Slam, then Taker will move onto a feud with Swagger for the title in the fall.

    Hopefully when the Undertaker locks Kane into the casket, Kane never finds a way out. Which leads me to this, besides the Raven/Tommy Dreamer and Stone Cold/McMahon feud, has there ever been a more one sided feud than Undertaker vs. Kane? I can't remember Kane ever beating the Undertaker ever.
     
  22. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Good point, Kane always gets beat. I'm a huge taker fan but I hope Kane wins. Kane used to be a Monster. now hes nothing but a jobber and its sad. I know he likes putting younger stars over, but man WWE really screwed his character. They had some promising storylines with kane making me think he would go back to being a monster but then they always fall flat.
     
  23. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    In the beginning Kane dominated Taker. He left him battered and bloodied all the time. Once he list Paul Bearer he became a stepping stool, IMO.
     
  24. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't know, the Kane character has been around for almost 13 years now (Glenn Jacbos has been in the WWF/E for a total of 15 years!) and has been pretty successful for the most part. He won his share of titles and I'm sure he made a ton of money. Guys would kill to have that kind of career. His character just isn't interesting anymore and there's nothing really they can do with him since they played out his original gimmick and countless reboots of his character. The character had a good run for someone that if you were to bet back in 1997 when he debuted would be gone from the company a few months after his (first) feud with the Undertaker was over, like almost all of Undertaker's monster opponents back then. I'd in no way say they screwed his character.
     
  25. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    They could always put a Vader mask on Kane
     
  26. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    He never beat the Undertaker in a match from what I can remember, that's what I was talking about. Even Vince McMahon got the upper hand on Austin over the course of their feud during promos or backstage attacks but McMahon never beat Austin in a match.
     
  27. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Yeah he made money, but he was only champ for a day. IMO they screwed him up by taking off his mask, which i know they had to do for his movie and he probably was happy with it as well so he could do more. But I never felt Kane got the run that he deserved
     
  28. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Thats because he has never *****ed and complained about being pushed like the other vets do. He has always been perfectly content with being a mid card guy. IMO.
     
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  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    So what if he was only champion for a day? He debuted in the middle of the Attitude era around guys like Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Undertaker, Foley and Angle all fighting for the belt, it's kind of hard to break through that core (back when being the champion meant something). He still had a successful runs as IC, Hardcore,Tag Team champs, ECW champ etc and job security for 15 plus years. You can't just measure success in terms of titles. What run do you think he deserved? Do you think the WWE should have put the title on him for awhile and had him beat guys like Austin or The Rock? Personally I think he had a pretty good run and was lucky he was successful for that long.

    Someone like Rowdy Roddy Piper was never world champion, would you say the WWE screwed up his career or he wasn't successful because of it? Because Piper was more over on the lowest point of his career than Kane was on his highest. Or how about Ted DiBiase, Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog, Owen Hart or Scott Hall? Not everyone can be champion, it doesn't make them less successful. On the flip side someone like Kevin Nash, Jeff Jarrett or Sid when they were champions nearly sank the company because they couldn't draw, does that make them more successful than Kane since they held the title longer? Do you think Kane would trade his career in a million years for Sid's? I left out Nash because Nash made insane money while at WCW but if you take away Nash's money, is Nash more successful than Kane? (I actually think that's a pretty good argument to make as Kane was a better wrestler than Nash, but Nash had the charisma and cool factor).

    The WWE had to eventually take off his mask, which they did when his character was 7 years into his run and was pretty stale as part of a tag team with RVD. Taking his mask off had been planned a long time ago, he did it in 2003 and his movie came out in 2006. It had nothing to do with the movie, just the natural progression of the character. His character badly needed a make over then and after he was unmasked the WWE did push him pretty hard but ultimately he settled into his usual upper mid card status because mainly because the PPVs he co-headlined the main events with for the titles tanked in the buyrates.

    Personally I think someone like The Big Show would be a better argument in terms of someone who should have had a big run but never did. Of course Show is part of the blame since he did get pretty lazy and fat at times. But someone like him should have been a much bigger star than he is.
     
  30. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    When you give people like The Great Khali and Mark Henry a title run, why not Kane. When i looked at Old Kane he was a monster, and the only people who beat him was Stone Cold, the Rock, taker, now put him in a match with the Miz and the miz will win. Granted like E said, kane does not mind. Each his own, but i think the Kane deserved more success. Thats just me. I hated it when it looked like Kane was back to his old self and then the story just dies. Thats just my opinion, everyone sees it different. I think he was overlooked
     
  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Why on earth would you ever let Kane beat The Miz now? The Miz is one of the guys that's going to be the future of the WWE. He needs those victories. Kane's time has come and gone. It would make zero sense for Kane to ever win in that situation. What Kane is doing now is exactly what he should be doing, and that's putting over the young kids.

    Well if my memory serves me correctly Kane was ECW champion around the time Khali was Smackdown champion, so its almost like its a wash, but yeah obviously Khali was an unwise choice as champion. Again though the main/big problem with Kane is that he didn't draw well for the WWE when he was given runs after his first feud with the Undertaker. His PPVs bombed when he main evented in world title matches, he just wasn't someone that was going to draw as the world champion. The time Kane was really red hot and at the peak of his career was from 1997 to just about the middle of 1999, the problem was you had Austin and The Rock, with Triple H slowly being built up. I'm sorry but Kane in no way should have been given the title over those guys at that time. It wasn't for a lack of effort with the WWE, it was that Kane just didn't draw enough to justify him being champion.

    Again though, the big question is how do you personally determine/define success for a wrestler?
     
  32. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Kane has been running on fumes for quite sometime. In his defense however, he has probably been given worse storylines than anyone in the history of the sport. With each helping of **** shoveled into his mouth, he just swallowed and asked for more.

    You want to reward compny guys like that. Even if they have long since expired past their usefulness. Kane deserves better than to be fed to UT (who should retire himself), but you also can't put Kane in a world title feud and expect anyone to take him seriously at this point.

    Honestly? I would LOVE to see Raven come in as his manager. Have Kane lose a few in a row, and become increasingly agitated and disturnbed with each loss. Eventually, you show him walking backstage after a loss, head down, looking lost.

    You hear a voice off camera talk to Kane as he walks by. This voice tells Kane that the whole world has lied to him. They told him that they couldn't see his scars, and that he had nothing to be afraid of. To take off the mask and embrace the light. But those were lies. Lies told by greedy people who wanted to use Kane for their own devices. Whether it was to make money off of him in movies, or to soften the monster so that they could leapfrog over him.

    But this person can see the truth. He speaks the truth, and the truth is, he can see Kane's scars. He can see his pain, his anguish and his failure.

    The camera pans down to show Raven sitting on the ground, holding the Kane's mask. He tells Kane that if he wants to heal, to truly heal, he has to confront his past and become one with who he is.

    Raven then leaves and leaves the mask behind him.

    I then have Raven do this for a couple of weeks with Kane and Kane looking standoff-ish...but ultimately listening to Raven. Until Teddy Long comes out and says that since HE signed Raven, he didn't sign him to just sit around the back and play mind games, and that Raven will have a match TONIGHT, against the Big Show.

    Show comes out and starts to manhandle Raven. As he is getting ready to chokeslam Raven, the lights drop, a sea of red floods the arena and Kane's music hits. As Show drops Raven and looks towards the ramp, we see Kane ripping through the canvas, seemingly from hell, with his mask on, black glove on, and standing behind an unsuspecting Big Show.

    Eventually Show turns around and is met with a chop to the throat and an epic beatdown from Kane, who eventually decimates Show to the point where Show has to be stretchered out.

    Kane is now being managed by a manipulative Raven, has taken out the biggest athlete in the WWE and has his mask, and his mean streak, back.

    I think it would at least give him a little bit of juice to squeeze. At least for a little bit.
     
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  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah you mentioned that Kane/Raven storyline before, which I liked then and still like now. I'd love to see Raven back, as he not only has an outstanding mind for the best but is a great talker and could go in the ring. Vince hates Raven though for whatever reason. I'd love to see that Raven angle done with someone else though, only because I think Kane has really run his course and nothing he does can save the character now but if this was pitched in 2002ish it might have done wonders for Kane.

    I do agree that Kane has been given some pretty bad story lines during his time, especially the Katie Vick thing. Still though, the guy had a very good WWE career and this is coming from someone who disliked the character since his debut.
     
  34. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Yeah, I thought I had put the Raven thing in there before. :lol: I am a Raven mark.

    But really, it could be James Mitchell, Don Callis or someone else of that ilk who can talk and take an occasional bump. I think Raven is probably done as an in ring performer, but him as a mouthpiece/announcer, would be fantastic.

    Scott Hall was fired today much to the surprise of no one.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I'm a huge Raven mark as well and think he should be a manager or announcer too, and on the creative/booking team too. His announcing as Johnny Polo back in '93 and '94 with the WWF was really good stuff. He was almost as good as Jesse Ventura as a heel color guy.

    The only thing surprising is that Hall lasted until June with TNA. I had March in my office pool.
     
  36. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    What! Hall got canned? I'm shocked!
     
  37. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    And Rey Mysterio is the World Heavyweight Championship.
     
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  38. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    And Sheamus became WWE Champion.
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I'd have to think that Orton gets the first crack at Sheamus and the title, probably winning it at Summer Slam. While Cena and Daniel Bryan take on the NXT group. I'm sure Swagger will beat Mysterio to get the title back at the next PPV too since that title change seemed to come out of nowhere.

    Again I do have a bad feeling Triple H will be back soon to kill off the NXT guys. Or for him to feud with Edge, since he doesn't have much to do right now.
     
  40. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    wait, is Bryan back officially, or are you speculating he comes back? i saw the PPV results and that the NXT gang had a hand in the outcome of the title match.
     

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