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Why firing Cam after 1 year is not as bad as it seems

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by testtubetimmy, Dec 12, 2007.

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  1. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    I think the common misconception that the league and the NFL fans have is that when a coach is fired, there is a sudden instability within the franchise. If a coach doesn't work out and is sent packing, the organization looks like fools and projects an air of indecision.

    I think that can't be farther from the truth.

    If the Dolphins choose to stick with an obvious bad decision (can't get more obvious than 0-13) they are projecting faith into someone who deserves none, who has nothing to offer, and are therefor CONDONING his losing season. Whereas, if Huizenga said "I will not tolerate the embarrassment brought upon this organization" and fired Cam, it would send a clear message to the league that its not acceptable to lose every single game. A losing season is one thing. But every game?

    Getting rid of Cam shows a commitment to win. It tells the league that we are not ok with a coach who can not get it done. And if that scares away potential rookie coaches, or coaches who don't think they've got it to win in the NFL, so be it. We don't want them anyway. We want a winner. And we want to BE winners.

    When you look at the past few years, the media makes it seem like we've had more problems than really we've had. Let's look at the coaches.

    Wannstedt- Basically was a promotion from Def. Coordinator and Asst. Coach to Head Coach. An understandable decision. We had a great defense, and he knew Jimmy Johnson's philosophy. Who better to carry the torch.

    When Wannstedt stepped down, Jim Bates took over as Interim HC. But I don't consider him a head coach. Place holders don't count, and he was never officially hired as our HC.

    Then, Nick Saban. Everyone wanted him. And he turned us around, a bit. 4-12 to 9-7 and barely missing the playoffs. We started shakey but won 6 games to finish out the season. There was hope.

    Saban would leave us after going 7-9, from his own accord. Not our fault, and there was no way to know he'd do that.

    Now, after one season, Saban's replacement has yet to win a single game and has only shown division between players and coaches. Cam can't win back the locker room and his players don't even want to play for him.

    So when you get down to it, we've only had two coaches since Wanny stepped down, and one of them resigned to go back to college. In fact, Huizenga has yet to fire anyone.

    If Huizenga pulls the trigger and fires Cam and Mueller, he's telling the world that 0-16 won't cut it. Which it shouldn't. If you're a head coach of an NFL team and you need more than 1 year to get 1 win, then how long do you need to get into the playoffs? A decade? We don't have that long.

    I leave you with this. It is unheard of in this league to go 0-16. So why should it be unheard of that we fire Cam after doing so?
     
  2. namor

    namor New Member

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    18 coaches have been 1 and done...Cam should be #19
     
  3. Waldop

    Waldop New Member

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    You have to ask yourselves, how many owners would put up with 0-16, first season or not!! I'm willing to bet not too many!!:confused2::confused2:
     
  4. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I feel were going to give him one more shot next year, this would be my biggest dissapointment of the season honestly.

    Its being setup already, we had injuries, etc etc.. hell The Falcons just had the worst season for them as well but they managed to win a few games with total chaos surrounding them and thier coach had the good sense to at least resign...

    CAM take notice and do the franchise a favor and resign after this weekend win or lose..
     
  5. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I want Mike Singletary coaching our team.
     
  6. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Sure seems like a nice attempt to convince yourself that "starting over" is not "starting over".

    Edit your post..... Saban didn't have a winning record.
     
  7. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    Um...I'm pretty sure I never said he had a winning record. Nope, I def. did not say that. In fact, I even gave both his records for his two seasons.

    If by winning record, you mean the 9-7 season he posted, well he had more wins than losses. So I guess that would be winning.

    And, most importantly, what's wrong with starting over? I think with an 0-16 record, we should start over. Because obviously we didn't start right.

    In fact, I guarantee Cam will be changing most of the roster this upcoming year to insure we don't go 0-16 again (if he stays). So he'll be doing the exact same thing a new coach would be doing.

    Except the new coach will hopefully know how to win.
     
  8. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    I'm all for firing Cam, but only if we're assured to hire a coach who is 'can't miss' material. Otherwise i think sticking with Cam is just as good as hire another 'maybe' coach.
     
  9. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    CITIZEN SNIIIIPPPPPSSSS! (i love futurama)

    I agree 100%. Any coach who isn't a winning, successful coach is not welcomed. It's time to stop messing around.

    Both Parcells and Cowher will make us a legitimate team instantly with the media and the league. We'll have so much press following because the media loves to cover those two coaches.

    Schottenheimer is iffy only because he's been so poor in the playoffs. But I believe that, unlike how Jimmy Johnson was when he got here, Marty wants to win a superbowl bad. JJ had his dynasty so he didn't really care in the long run, it was more about saving face and looking good for him. Parcells might be the same way, we don't know. And we all saw how the steelers played after Cowher got his SB ring two years ago. So maybe Marty would have the biggest push to get to the SB. That's why I'd go with him.

    Not to mention, if we can get any of these three guys, everyone would say we'd have been stupid to keep Cam with these guys out there. I mean, if we had a legitimate shot at getting Parcells or Cowher, and we stuck with Mr. 0-16, we'd be laughed at for decades to come.

    Anyone else isn't worthy to be our next head coach, the rightful heir to the Shula Throne.
     
  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    No, I want nothing to do with Parcells, not that ive even heard his name remotely mentioned in connection with this franchise. I just dont think he has it anymore, nor do I think he is really into the whole coaching thing. Cowher is a tossup-hes a good coach who would command player respect and give us some credibility, but I dont want another JJ situation with us "resurrecting" a burnt out head coach who isnt really into it anymore.
    Marty is, imo, a repair guy. I wouldnt be against him. He doesnt seem to have the ability to take an elite team to the top level, but hell, if he can get us moving in the right direction-something he seems to know how to do-im for it.

    2 weeks ago I was against firing Cam. Even thinking ahead to 0-16 I was against the thought. But after the last two weeks? The Jills and Jets? Man, if you cant at least PRETEND to have a respectable effort againt them, then you have no business coaching in the league. Im gonna wait to see how the season turns out before passing final judgement. The ravens look weak, the Bengals are a tossup, and maybe playing the Pats scrubs. If we can pull 1-2 out then maybe Cam gets a chance. Other coaches have had bad first years-it happens. If we get blown out again and again and again, well, good riddance.
     
  11. dolphins26

    dolphins26 New Member

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    yes let everyone know that the miami dolphins will not tolerate losing because we are the miami dolphins and we are winners, so if you are a coach who plans to lose, well, dont come here! we are winners! yea!

    how moronic can you be. to be a winner you have to have talent. we have no talent, thus, we are not winners.
     
  12. billsfaninpeace

    billsfaninpeace New Member

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    Hey thats fine fire him up. Maybe the Bills can get him as their OC. That seems like something he can do well
     
  13. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So installing a new offense/defense and the roster turn over to get the appropriate personal to run it doesn't promote instability? And it doesn’t do this because of the Dolphins record? :001_rolleyes:

    I keep reading reactionary silliness about Cam. I give up. You are right. Tom Laundry should have been fired; after all he had no wins. So should of Bill Wash with his paltry 2 wins, or Jimmy Johnson and Chuck Noll with their pathetic 1 win. Losers all of them! And no, before anybodies panties get twisted I’m not saying that Cam is a Bill Walsh. I’m saying that you have to give somebody you feel good enough to make a head coach at least 2 years to be a head coach. It takes a while to get a team where it should be. Look at the roster turnover before the season. Look at how the draft picks are playing. Look at how the team was playing before the injuries.
     
  14. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    Before the injuries? Our team was playing great! Just great enough to lose every game!

    I was the one preaching to give Cam time halfway through the season. Give him time to install his ethics and the way he works. But the players dont buy it, it hasnt given him ANY wins, and he's shown no ability to actually coach to inspire confidence in the years to come.

    "give him time" is an excuse to not do anything. To wait, and in a year or two, it'll be the same problem and we'll have wasted two more seasons.

    By the way, I'd agree with you on the Bill Walsh and Tom Landry comments, if Cam had any successful head coaching experience whatsoever. But he's not had a single win in the NFL and he was terrible as a HC in college.

    Face it, the guy is not who we thought he was. And now its time to go with a proven winner who, even though they might start slow, we KNOW they can win in the NFL.
     
  15. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok, so what sucessful head coaching jobs did Tom or Bill have before their first Head coaching job?

    I never said that the team was playing great before injuries. I meant that the Offense was showing signs of being great, not there yet, but signs. He needs to have the time to get rid of the players that aren’t “buying into him”.

    “Give him more time” is not an excuse, the injury comment is an excuse. Give him more time is more of a plea, or an opinion. I'm not saying that he is successful, and that with more time it will be shown. I'm saying that there hasn't been enough time to make a real judgment. Two years seems reasonable.

    The team is horrible. If you change coaches every year until it is not, coaches will be changed EVERY year. If the team doesn’t show signs of real improvement next year, then fire him by all means.
     
  16. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe Bill Walsh was the coach at Stanford both prior to and following his Niners gig but I could be wrong.

    However, the Landry, Walsh and even JJ comparisons aren't really relevant b/c that was a completely different era with no salary cap and no free agency. The gap between teams was much bigger than it is now.

    It should be almost impossible to go winless in today's day and age, but perhaps we will pull off the impossible.
     
  17. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    now THAT's a thought.

    i'd love one scenario, and one only that involved schottenheimer: that he come in on a two-year MAXIMUM basis, to groom his defensive coordinator - mike singletary - as the next hc of the pihins.
     
  18. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Coaching is coaching. The good teams still build through the draft just like in the 90's. (JJ's time) That's what I want Miami to do. Saban didn't do this. Cam has started to.


    If it is impossible to winless it should be impossible to go unbeaten, yet both are happening. I think people misunderstand parity as it realates to the NFL. There have been teams that are 2 or less wins away from going winless almost every year during the modern era. Parity means that every team has a chance to be great, with smart choices. It means that large market teams can’t just buy a championship roster. It doesn’t mean that some teams won’t be much smarter and better than the rest. Or, in our case, more stupider.

    I hate to use this as an excuse but we have been insanely unlucky this year. 6 games by 3 or less? You redo the schedule, same team, same injuries, same coaching staff, and I think 9 out of 10 times we have a win at this point. That doesn’t make us a good or even a poor team. We are a horrible team and we would still be horrible if we have 4 wins now. I just don’t think that at this point you can say that Cam is the reason that we are horrible, or that he can’t make us great. Because of that, changing for changes sake is wrong, because it is disruptive, it will set the team back, and Cam can still work out. Change once/if you know Cam is the problem. I'm not there yet.

    OH and Walshes only previous head coaching job was at a high school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  19. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks for the info on Walsh, I wasn't sure.

    Isn't Cam part of the reason though? If he's not, then what does it matter who your coach is? All I ask of a head coach is that his team is disciplined and prepared to play each and every week. We are certainly undisciplined if you look at penalties and turnovers as signs of that, as I do.

    A head coach has to be a leader of men. The best coaches are the ones who inspired their teams to follow them and believe in them when the chips are down. That hasn't happened here. Not every great coordinator is cut out to be a leader of men.

    Is it too early to judge Cam in this regard? Maybe, but I fear we're going to be having this same discussion a year or two years from now.
     
  20. hof13

    hof13 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Everything I've found says Walsh was a head coach at Stanford from 77-79 before getting hired by the 49ers in 79. He led Stanford to two bowl victories in two seasons.
     
  21. calfinfan

    calfinfan New Member

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    I personally would like to see Cam stay. Give him next year. If were not competitive with only a few wins, then let him go. If were competitive and near 8-8 then let him continue.

    Remember is his staff was hired for him. Let him make the staff changes he wants this off season.

    Along the line of players, continue to build through the draft. Get a vetaran QB in the off season to back up Beck, and draft one. Get WRs and CBs in FA as well. If a good TE comes available take a shot at him. Otherwise build throughthe draft.

    Remember Bellicheck sucked at the Browns and first few years at the Patriots. Then he started Tom Brady and he became a genius (take away Brady and NE is an average team).

    I just don't believe in a coaching carosel. Everytime you change head coaches the team is set back at least one year to adjust.
     
  22. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks HOF, I thought so.
     

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