My memory might be hazy, but I don't recall Tampa having to start in the dirt at all with their first string. After that yeah, but who cares about those scrubs? I doubt this would matter in an exhibition game, but I am almost positive Sparano wasn't about to let those boys go all out and risk injury. That would be just stupid.
Your premise is that the stadium is not conducive to fan noise. Those games prove you wrong. Period. They are also not the only loud home games, but simply the best references off the top of my head.
Well, I don't know...you're right, of course, but Olindo Mare has never lived down one lousy miss on that infield and it was dry then.... The visiting team, in this instance wasn't in the muck, at least with their first string guys... I don't blame the Marlins...I blame the owners for not coming up with a better solution for that infield dirt. They are ultimately responsible for the product on the field. In that respect, Wayne and Ross have failed miserably. This isn't the first time. The field conditions were lousy during the SB a couple of years ago and could be responsible for us not getting the game back in the future as often ?? The record of the Fins this decade has to do with many factors. The dirt infield is one of them. It's fact. It's not the only issue they have or have had, but it's one of them. It does make a difference. It doesn't excuse them...
I wasn't clear about my post, what upsets me is this area is large enough in population it should have separate stadiums for baseball and football. (A long damn time ago IMO) This is not the Marlins fault, except their ownership kept dismantling the team so enough people wouldn't stay fans and fill a stadium, hence one wasn't built a long time ago which it should have been for an area of this population size. The mud just makes our city and team look like a small market that won't support separate stadiums. I am a Marlins fan, got tickets to go see them later this month, I just feel having a baseball infield in the middle of our football field makes us look like a town such as Buffalo - makes the Dolphins look bad. Desides is right that the mud didn't stop Tampa and we should not have let it stop us, but having that infield in the middle of a football field makes our team look cheap/bad, that's just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
That stadium was a nightmare. Impossible location, and literally falling apart. It needed to go. Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk
The solution was simple. They could've gone to FieldTurf anytime. I assume the cost is the reason they haven't, with the Marlins scheduled to leave one way or another ( I think their lease was up in 12 anyway with or without a new stadium) So we just have to deal with the dirt. Given that the MArlins finish up the season on the road, I imagine there will be no regular season games with the dirt.
Olindo Mare is the only reason why people complain about the infield dirt, IMO. The Bucs started on the non-dirt side of the field, yes, but it didn't just rain on the dirt. The whole field was soggy. That's what happens when a large downpour hits a shallow grass field relatively quickly. The Bucs' WRs caught the ball, Freeman made some nice throws, and when they got to the other end of the field with the infield dirt, they didn't suddenly suck; they threw a TD pass to Sammie Stroughter, who eluded coverage on the dirt to dash into the end zone. I refuse to believe that the conditions were so bad as to render offense impotent, or that the ball was too wet to hold on to. The Bucs sure as hell didn't let those conditions stop them. Baseless speculation, IMO, especially since Super Bowl XLIV had perfect weather. Miami has hosted more Super Bowls than any other city, though NO is about to tie us in two years. The committee just wants us to pour more money into the stadium, or possibly build a new stadium. Note that Super Bowls in recent years have been awarded to new stadiums. Jerruh Jones' North Texas Football Cathedral and Mausoleum is hosting the Super Bowl this year; the Cardinals' shiny new University of Phoenix Stadium was the site of 18-1; the new Meadowlands Stadium just won a Super Bowl bid; and the Colts' new Lucas Oil Stadium is getting a Super Bowl. The cycle was broken only when the committee gave New Orleans a pity Super Bowl due to Katrina. Goodell has mentioned wanting the team to pour money into the stadium, as if we haven't already renovated the damn thing just before Wayne left. Mike Dee has already made noise about wanting taxpayer funding for further renovations, too. The fact that we've already put hundreds of millions into renovations and are looking at even more additions and changes means that people wanting a new stadium are going to be waiting until about 2030. No, it's not fact. It's excuse-making amongst the fanbase due mainly to Olindo Mare shanking kicks. The Raiders also have a dirt infield and have been to a Super Bowl this decade, and their recent struggles have nothing to do with the infield.
Desides...I respect your opinion.. The game is played by human being's who have emotions...you or others may think that it was time to move on from the orange bowl, but I know for a fact that the players themselves were and our, miserable about it. what kind of residual affect that can have is what Iam trying to quantify. You use examples of a monday nite game and a playoff game, which are fine, I was at both, and relative to the rest of our games it was better, but our standards are at the bottom when it comes to this subject. My point is that because of the construction of this stadium, it does not allow the fans to feel like they can make a difference, or effect their players emotions...the stadium itself over the years has completely changed the perception that our once proud fanbase had...how did that happen? well imo, when you dont feel like your making a difference you become a passive fan..It wasnt the team's that made us get a rep, it was the fact that the stadium allowed us to feel like we had some power, and once we felt that, we wanted more, and once we felt like we could actually give our players energy on the field, we wanted more, and once we felt like we could literally affect the game, we wanted more, so we stood, and screamed, and stood some more, and we walked around proud. Last year monday nite was the best that stadium had to offer.... Our stadium is a wonderful place for a visiting team to play football, they love it, ive heard it many times....disadvantage Miami dolphins. You talk about the new cowboy stadium being a morgue, and you know, ive said several times that same exact thing since the first game i watched play there..The old dallas stadium from a players perspective was such an advantage, they loved it because they played under the close eye of their fan's {pun intended}.. The new one has no connection now from the fans to its players, none, huge disconnect that mr. smarty pants Jerry jones failed to include in his blueprints {biiiig mistake}.. we are in the same boat... No connection, that's what iam talking about.. and when you dont have your fans and players connected in this gladiator type game, your negatively affecting your team and the franchise on many levels, and Iam not just talking about surfacely, but financially. What's scary to me is the residual affect this has on our player's conscious... Mike Dee... if you or your researchers are reading this, its real, were a miserable fanbase that wants to be a part of our team again..... I may sound crazy to some, and that this is quite irrelevant to results on the field, but with every bone in my body, the close details I pay to my teams emotional state of mind, the years of data proving to me, have helped me formulate this opinion...along with having been sitting in both stadiums and comparing the astronomical diiference's in energy..
Interestingly enough, on Saturday at the game, they showed the drawings for the renovations on the jumbotron for whatever that's worth
If there is record of the exec's saying in print that they want to move the stands closer to the stadium, than it would indicate they know exactly what some of us have been talking about for over a decade.
I'm not arguing whether or not the OB was getting old and needed to be replaced...... the point is that yes, some stadiums by design are louder than others. The Orange Bowl was a LOUDER stadium.......PERIOD You could take the same crowd, same enthusiasm and it was still louder....still more of a problem for opposing teams. I went to the very first game when JRS opened and it was obvious from the very beginning....
But dj, you continue to assume that the crowd noise makes a tangible difference in winning or losing. I don't believe there is any evidence of that. I bring up Lucas Oil Stadium again. The place is unquestionably quieter than the RCA Dome, to the point they tried pumping in crowd noise, yet the Colts continue to win at an astonishing pace and have been to two Super Bowls since they've been there. When you have a good team, you play good at home and you play good on the road. A good team should beat inferior teams in the loudest stadium ever or the quietest.
Shmoot, so you don't think energy in a stadium can affect a players performance?, cause if you don't, than we will never disagree on this. Energy from fans and atmosphere can most definitly imo lift a players energy.
Sure it can, for a play or two. It wouldn't sustain for a whole game or season. The teams that win consistently are just better teams, period. Teams with great homefields have had horrible years where no amount of crowd energy would make any difference. Even Green Bay was in the wilderness for 20 years to the point they played half the games in Milwaukee to drum up interest.
Jet fans have been some of the loudest and most energy filled stadiums (old meadowlands) for years. What have they won? You need a good team to go along with the noise.
Iam not gonna keep harpin on the topic, I don't want people to get annoyed at me, so I will say that iam on the record, and hopefully the signs that we have been seeing by the Suit's is that they understand the P.O.V, and finally are willing to take some action. Shmoot, see ya on the other side buddy, lol.
Yes mam..I agree with you...some of the takes I hear on this subject make me feel that some folks think these are robots out there, and not human being's...
Hey, I love the passion dj. And don't get me wrong, if moving the seats closer or doing something else will increase the value of my experience at the stadium I'm all for it, considering I plan to continue getting tickets for as long as I can afford them.
Yeah, there has never been a louder stadium, thats for sure. But Joe Robbie can get very very loud with the right atmosphere. Being at the Colts playoff game where Lamar Smith put on a show, that was one hellava loud game. With a top product it would be considerably louder thats for sure. Would I like a new stadium? I would love one with the seats a lot closer and more of an incline to them as well but ONLY if it's an open venue with no stupid (_)_) roof...
I've been to both stadiums as a season ticket holder for over 30 yrs and as much as I totally loved the atmosphere of the Orange Bowl, I liked the idea of a more comfortable stadium to attend games. The seats at the Orange Bowl were soooooo uncomfortable it was not even funny, and god forbid if you got stuck behind one of the many columns that obstructed your view of the game. I just thought they moved out too soon. The only total disadvantages are that the Dolphins fans dont sell it out and show up consistantly. The stadium was built with too many seats imo and should hold only 68,000, at most 70,000 people. We Dolphins fans are at fault for letting any team other than the Dolphins feel at home. BUT when it's full of Dolphins fans it can be very loud and annoying for the opponent. Payton Manning once said that he was really effected by the crowd noise there so it's definitely not a disadvantge to the Dolphins when WE FINS FANS fill it up...
maybe iam in the minority OZ, but I woukld sacrifice my own comfortability in a second to have our team play in a stadium like the OB, in a second...
Look at a stadium like Lambeau Field... does sitting on a hard metal bench (not seat, I said bench) in below freezing temperatures, gusting winds and snowfall... does that sound like a fun way to spend a Sunday afternoon? But yet there is a 30 year waiting list to get Packer season tickets, plus Green Bay is by far the smallest market in the NFL. I recently saw on YouTube a clip of the 85 Bears/Fins game at the Orange Bowl, the game literally came to a stop because of the frenzied crowd noise. If anyone was there I'd love to read about your memories. They had to basically stop the game because the fans were so loud and the Bears couldn't hear anything. You would have never convinced me that happened at a Dolphins game, no way.
yes sir, I was there, and let me tell you, that wasn't the only game that happened at..at that game it happened 3 times in a row, than they said we were gonna get penalized if we continued...freakin brilliant man.....I think that was a first then, and still stands to this day...Ive watched teams fold under the pressure, and ive watched our team raise their level of play with a heightened sense of awareness that only a specific type crowd can create. You wanna talk about being a proud fan, when your team respects you as a fan base its the ultimate praise....
Not arguing that. What I'm arguing is that you're aiming at the wrong target. The stadium isn't the problem, the lack of compelling on-field product to cheer for is. You can go back and watch games from 2007 and then compare with games from 2009 to see what I mean. Only "better"? I think you might have an overinflated opinion of other teams' stadiums and crowds...
But see I said I looked forward to a new stadium. Not that I wanted it. I loved the Orange Bowl but the seats at Joe Robbie are much more comfortable and the biggest thing is there are no columns and not one bad seat in the house as far as the view. I've always said the seats should be moved closer on the sidelines and more than anything, the incline needs to be steeper. The place was originally designed sort of like a soccer stadium and if you listen to a big time soccer game they can be loud as hell. But the one thing I totally disagree with you on, is that it is not a disgrace of a stadium. It was state of the art in it's time. Should they upgrade or build anew? YES! I've been saying it for a while but the one thing I am so against is a freaking roof.
I was at the game and the game was stopped like 5-6 times or more. The refs kept going over to Shula threatening to penalize the team, and Shoes was waving his arms at them like wtf do you want me to do. Green Bay is not comparible to South Florida. They've had a tradition there that was/is second to none. Winning championship after championship before the NFL was even formed but the one thing they have that makes it impossible to compare is NOTHING, and by that I mean they have absolutely NOTHING but Packers Football in Green Bay. You show me a Dolphins team that is a legit SB contender year in and year out and I'll show you sell out after sell out and waiting lines for tickets but the second they suck I'll count the cricketts for you. AND it's like that in 90-95 percent of all NFL venues.....
See the this kinda goes with the point it is important. Close games and momentum change on a play or two IMO. Sure if ya have a bad product on the field it will not make ya a winner but the advantage is real and tangible.
there is something called adrenaline in the game of football...adrenaline can lift your game...adrenaline can be enhanced from energy that does not come from your own body. nobody has given me a reason why some players called out their own team for being unemotional and flat to start games".. does that sound right coming from this sparano/parcells team?...Are we blaming that on JT and Porter?
I agree with you, Deej. Home field advantage is not a myth. It's called this for a reason, and right now our stadium doesn't allow us to consistently have it..... plain and simple. A home field should NOT allow for even play; it should be acting as a 12th man. Case in point- Our home record: Sun Life: 117-73 (.616) Orange Bowl: 120-43-3 (.737) Now I'm no mathlete but I think the numbers display a clear variance between the 2. It's ironic how in 82' we went to the SB. In 83' we're 12-4 In 84' we're 14-2 In 85' we're 12-4 Say hello to Joe Robbie Stadium: In 86' we're 8-8 In 87' we're 8-7 In 88' we're 6-10 In 89' we're 8-8 I know there are other factors involced, but just sayin.
Yeah, the other factors were the talent level of the team. We went to the AFC Championship in '92 at JRS. And you're complaining about a .616 home mark? Come on guys. When we were 11-5 2 years ago was our homefield that bad? I know we lost a few games but to better teams (except thwe Jets, but we sucked the first 2 weeks)
I watched the 85 bears Dolphins game this last weekend.. the OB crowd was SO loud they stopped play for more than five minutes... I remember it being so loud in the closed end my eyes blurred... you might argue that crowd noise has no effect, but we owned the nfl for homefield advantage for years and years at the OB.. even in our bad years.
Yeah I am complaining about it. What part of 30 more losses with 3 fewer victories (compared to the Orange Bowl) do you not comprehend? Big deal- 1 AFC Championship appearance over 24 years. True mark of a quality. 1992- you mean the year we lost to the Bills twice at home including the Championship game? Sure, great home field advantage there!!!
I completely remember that. The Orange Bowl was revered in its day! It had a mystique about it. "Joe Robbie Stadium" became something nonchalant and "matter of factly" like: I can picture Bob Eucker saying "It's 90 degrees and humid as balls today.... and oh yeah, the game's being played at <psssst, what's this place called again?> (whisper from the side- Joe Robbie Stadium) yeah, that place."
You're equating those 30 losses with the stadium, which is ridiculous. Is it your argument that we would've won some of those home games if they had played in the OB? Also a ridiculous statement without any evidence to back it up. Good teams win wherever they play. When we've been good, we've won at home. We we sucked, we haven't. It has nothing to do with the stadium. That's an excuse that deflects all the blame from the various coaches, gm's, etc. that screwed up this franchise.
You've got to be kidding me!!!!! Seriously. There is a reason it's called HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE...... You need to get these fantasy thoughts out of your head b/c you're just looking silly right now. Did you ACTUALLY ever go to an Orange Bowl game? Please riddle me that first before we proceed. Also, PLEASE explain why our complete road record is 165-172 (.490) I guess it was b/c during those ROAD games we were playing with "less talent" than our home ones, and it had absolutely ZERO to do with our opponents' HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE. Give me a friggin break. In a 16 game season, an extra close win here or there can make a world of difference. Your argument is only overshadowed by your ignorance. No offense.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll respond thusly. Yes, I went to games at the Orange Bowl. Although I was young and don't remember them that well. And the homefiled advantage comes from simply being "AT HOME". You don't have to travel, you're in your own lockerroom, you are more comfortable, etc. It has nothing to do with the stadium itself, unless there is something tangible (like the heat) that MIGHT make a difference. You are a fool if you think our teams of the 90's or early 2000's would've been Super Bowl teams "but for" JRS. IT's a ridiculous, stupid argument that is based on emotion and not evidence. You give me the Colts talent and I'll play in front of zero fans at home and I'll take my chances on winning most of those games.
EXACTLY!! And DJ, no offense but if you haven't spent much time in the stadium, you can't really quantify the homefield advantages or disadvantages.. I went to 4 home games last year, and the stadium was rocking.. Especially against the Colts and Saints... I've been to several UM games that were are 60% capacity and it felt as loud as the OB.. These perceived "issues" with the stadium have more to do with perception / negative reinforcement and the quality of the team than with the actual building.. JRS is just fine.. If you want to look at a stadium that seems distant from the fan experience, look no further than the new Meadowlands.. WTF were they thinking, the upper deck looks like it has a blimp view of the field..
