2010 Florida Marlins Thread

David Samson isn't going anywhere. He's Igor to Bozo the Art Clown's Dr. Frankenstein. Bozo the Art Clown knew of, approved, and even initiated the whole "let's pocket money and claim poverty" routine. This stuff comes from the top, not near the top.

If anyone needs to be punished, it needs to be Bozo the Art Clown. If Selig in any way feels remorse for his shafting of the Marlins and his rendering comatose the sport of baseball in South Florida, then he needs to do whatever he can to force Bozo the Art Clown out and find a real owner for this team. If not Selig, then Selig's successor.

Edit: Okay, on second thought, there's probably a chance that Samson falls on the sword to save his boss. But if the two were complicit up to this point, I don't think there's a huge chance that suddenly Samson sacrifices himself to keep the scheme going, especially now that it's confirmed.

 

He won't sacrifice himself. It's not in his nature. The only way he gets canned is if Lauria says he was unaware, which is also unlikely.

My guess? Samson will go on LeBatard today and say not only claim the documents false, incorrect, or that they don't tell the whole story, but that whoever leaked them should go to jail. He'll deflect the entire thing.

I don't know why this pisses me off so much as I'm not even a Marlins fan, but dammit it makes me mad

 

well this is lovely....please just leave Landshark, and dupe them in your own place....

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marlinsfinancials082410

 

Already posted that dude.

 

sorry HK, I dont troll inferior baseball team's threads stoooopid!!!

they should just move them to Canada....or Mexico..

 

Well it's a good thing the Yankees always win the head-to-head.

 

We Yankee fans dont recognize any win from a Fla team over them.....that WS didnt exist.....samething with Arizona, never happened....

As a matter of fact, who are the Marlins, and Diamondbacks?? Wildlife?? Somebody said they were baseball teams the other day...

 

Typical. What debt did the Marlins pay down? Why has everyone who's looked at this come to the same conclusion?

I think it's pretty obvious that the Marlins refused to provide their financial statements because they knew what we all know now: They are ****ing liars.

And shame on the City Council for voting to pass it without seeing said financial records. What a joke.

 

Yeah thats too bad bro, I hate to see that happen to the fans of other teams...I feel that if teams took revenue sharing seriously instead of paying debt, and/or pocketing it, baseball would have more parody...thats why revenue sharing is a joke...teams shouldnt be forced to give up their money, and have it be given to other teams that have no interest in bettering the product on the field.....

 

Excellent point. I always felt that teams should be forced to spend the revenue sharing money on the team (by signing players either FA or used for the draft) and if not they should return the money back to the team giving it or the money should go to a charity of something or that nature. Teams should NOT be allowed to pocket revenue sharing money. I remember reading an article a few years ago about the Reds owner used the revenue sharing money to put in new cup holders at their home ball park.

And another thing, I don't want to hear these small market team owners that are pocketing the money and making profits complaining about other teams spending.

 

This. I cant believe I agree with a Sawx fan....

 

These guys:


Oh look, I think that's Yankee Stadium in the background there.

 

Don't you have a syllabus to review young man??

No it isnt, that Yankee Stadium never existed...you cant find it anywhere...I checked I was there last week.....all made up my friend...CGI...

 

Hopefully these leaked statements will at least get the revenue sharing conversation going again. We heard about it a couple years ago, when some owners were complaining, then it kinda faded away.

Although Bud Selig will probably be too busy staring at his own statue to ever do anything about it.

 

This is where a right frame of mind Steinbrenner would have come in handy.......

but it is like Florida has a cornerstone piece in the field, and pitching.....go spend a couple of dollars on payroll once you get in your new stadium and it will take off.....look at TB....they are at 75 million right now, thats ALOT for them, think about that....if they have any hopes of keeping their guys too, they better start think about 100 as a min price point..

 

Guys, is this going to jeopardize the marlins stadium in any way?

 

Just making sure. It does sound like a stupid question after I read it the second time, lol.

Here's a smart question, though. Could the Marlins have kept Miguel Cabrera?

 

Not at his current $20 million per year. The Marlins' profit in 2008 and 2009 was less than $40 million. His contract would have needed to be in the neighborhood of $15 million per year. But even then, we wouldn't have been able to give contracts to Hanley and JJ.

The team could definitely have spent more on bullpen help, though.

 

They could have easily kept all 3 IMO.

 

Miguel Cabrera: $20 million/year.
Hanley Ramirez: $12 million/year.
Josh Johnson: $10 million/year.

That's $42 million per year. The Marlins made $37 million in 2008 and $11 million in 2009.

Not seeing how all three could have been kept.

 

Of course, Maybin is hitting well now.

 

Only your numbers are off. Johnson wasn't making 10 million in 2008 or 2009 while Hanley made peanuts in '08 and only 5.5 million in 2009 and 7 million in 2010. They could have possibly made it work. Sure it would start to get expensive starting in 2011 but they would be close to the new stadium start date and who knows what would have happened if Cabrera stayed team success wise.

In 2008 the payroll was 21 million, add Cabrera's 11.3 million and that's 32.3 million in payroll. In 2009 the payroll was 36 million, adding Cabrera's 15 million it's 51 million. In 2010 the payroll is currently 47 million, adding Cabrera's 20 million that's 67 million. It's do able if Loria wanted to spend.

Of course those payroll figures are rough and not perfect since some players wouldn't be on the team due to cut costs in other areas, for example Uggla would probably have been traded to free up money.

 

The problem with keeping Cabrera plus the other players is the front office wouldn't have been able to pay down their debt (unless they paid with their own money instead of the business') with their current revenue stream. If they didn't lower their debt, they wouldn't have been able to borrow the money to finance their portion of stadium construction costs.




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Something I've been thinking about; if I'm Dan Uggla and I have an opportunity to walk, I'm out. These guys aren't committed to fielding a truly competitive ball club. Their committed to profit, and hey, more power to them. It's their team. But then why own a baseball team at all? If you're not in it to win the World Series, why not just keep the money in the bank and chill on a beach? If you like baseball so much, buy season tickets (and stay the he'll away from ownership).


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Each and every single game, Logan Morrison is making me look dumb and Ray Finkle a genius. He's out performing Coghlan.

 

They could have operated at a loss for a bit before the new stadium opened. You need to keep a talent like Miggy at all costs.

 

the point is you have to nuture the talent on the field and elsewhere, and you will have unlimited profit....run the tightest of ships dont invest in any aspect, and come away for 11 million a year, or invest in everything, build a winning formula and get money...look at the teams that have money, they all invest on the product on the field first and foremost...

 

just like any business really.

its funny i used to diss yankees/redsox/dodgers for "buying" good teams.....well not anymore. They use their own money to build a business by putting great product on the field, bringing more people in the parks, which in turn makes more money and instead of keeping all that profit.....they re-invest it into the team. Tip o' the cap to those teams.....being a red sox fan is looking pretty tempting at the moment

 

Sick bro come on.....why do you want to be a solidier in Custer's army??

 

Because rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for the house to win at the casino.

 

Nationally the Sox are on that level as well my friend

 

not really....i have no dog in that fight...but from my perspective the yankees are the big bad guys....red sox are the under dog guys you root for.....

I think its because of guys like pedroia....and the old "feel" you get from watching them play in fenway

 

I agree and like I mentioned if they keep Cabrera who knows how well the team plays. It's possible they might have made the playoffs in the past 3 years with him and in turn bringing in more fans. I always said that the consistent turnover with the Marlins have hurt the fan base a bit since they never have players there long enough to really get behind to root for and when those guys get traded it takes a lot out of the fan base. Seeing the same good players on the team for years never hurts.

 

yeah the Yankees are like the Cowboys no matter how good or bad they are, everybody hates them....they cant shake that stigma...

I think it varies, I have been out to Ohio, and alot of people dont like the Sox out there either. Of course this was a couple of years ago, when they were in it to the end every year....after they won again, people were starting to get sick of them as well....

People around the country hate the Yankees because they spend money to win championships, which is the most hypocrtical thing to me....ever..

 

I think the Red Sox are #2 behind the Yankees as most hated. I mean after 2004 they were kind of shoved down everyone's throat and along came the bandwagon fans (which happens to every team after they win a title). Fans have gone from 'the world is going to end' to 'I think Theo Epstein and Terry Francona should be fired right away if the team doesn't win a WS this year'. A lot of that is the bandwagon bunch and the rest are just people being unrealistic and thinking hey we won this year so we can always win and we should. Even going to Fenway Park is completely different since 2005. I feel like people just go to the games because they feel like it's the place to be and not because of the game (I feel the same way about Yankee Stadium too everything is just too corporate there). I remember going to both Fenway and Yankee Stadium before 2003 and never having a problem getting a good seat. Now you have to take out a 2nd mortgage or sell a kidney to even go to one game. Ok end of rant.

 

You're of course correct about the 2008 and 2009 contract situations, but what you missed from my post, and what you fail to take into account in your own, is future salary. You have to look at these contracts on a per-year basis over the life of the contracts, not on the basis of what the Marlins were making in 2008 and 2009.

Without financial documents from prior to 2008, we're left with the assumption of an average operating income of ~$25 million per year: $11.1m in 2009 plus $37.8m in 2008, rounded to $50m for the sake of cleaner math examples. The combination of the Cabrera, Ramirez, and Johnson contracts exceeds that amount by $17 million per year.

$25m - ($20m + $12m + $10m) = -$17m

Thus the Marlins would have been in the hole for nearly the annual amount of the Cabrera contract. Take Cabrera out...

$25m - ($12m + 10m) = $3m

or take Ramirez and Johnson out...

$25m - $20m = $5m

Thus the Marlins could have kept either Cabrera or Ramirez and Johnson, but not all three. Going solely from the documents, this is an either/or scenario. Either Cabrera or Hanley and Johnson. Keeping all three would have put the franchise in the red going forward, because the franchise would not have been able to afford to pay for all three contracts each year.

I am not wrong on this. Based on what we know, the Marlins could not have kept Cabrera, Hanley, and Johnson.

 

I have paid for my daughter/spouses X-Mas gifts the past 4 years reselling tix to Fenway .....Although this year has been awful...

BTW I know he wont get it, or even consideration for it, but Terry should get Manager of the Year....or Washington...

 

Shame about our self-enforced salary-cap

 

Maybe I'm completely wrong but teams don't use the per-year basis when factoring in their payroll each year hence why all of the contracts are always backloaded (and sometimes deferred), they use actual figures. Per-year basis over the life of the contract is used when determining the luxury tax for teams but aren't used as operating expenses/cost year to year.

Even if I'm completely wrong about the above (which is possible and feel free to let me know) Florida could have still could have afforded both Hanley and Cabrera on the team because Johnson signed his big deal this year which goes into effect next year. So you can't factor in Johnson's salary until next year. So factoring in Johnson's 10 million in '08 and '09 would be wrong.

Again though like I stated, this discussion isn't perfect because surely the Marlins would have operated differently if they kept Cabrera and money would have been allocated differently. For example Dan Uggla probably would have been dealt before the 2009 season freeing up his 5.5 million he made also Andrew Miller and Maybin's contracts would never have been on the books and of course the salary of Cabrera's replacements the past few seasons. Those are just a few examples. Again these are all just rough estiminates and guesses and this is before factoring in possible success of the team keeping Cabrera on board as well as us assuming Cabrera would have signed the same exact contract he did with the Tigers.

Again I could be wrong.