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Jason Taylor wants Out!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatic8480, Dec 12, 2007.

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  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think it would be a mistake to rely on player's opinions to make Coaching decisions, whether Cam stays or is fired along with Mueller, a player is to close to the situation.

    As far trading JT for a #2 pick, the "modern" NFL sees very few players spend their entire careers with one team, even Emmitt Smith and Tony Dorsett finished elsewhere.
     
  2. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    This would be a mistake of epic proportions.

    Jason Taylor's recent opinions have been the exact opposite of reality. He wanted Jim Bates to become the full-time head coach: Bates is now in Denver running one of the league's worst defenses. JT loved Saban's system: Saban caught a flight and headed off to Tuscaloosa. But Saban brought in Daunte Culpepper, who JT famously stuck up for before the preseason began (in a move that directly undermined Cameron's authority, by the way), yet Daunte is a backup in Oakland running on a one-year contract.

    Jason Taylor's opinion should only be solicited with the intention of doing the exact opposite of what he recommends.
     
  3. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    If this were democracy and politics, Cam would've been impeached by now. I'm not really a fan of players having too much of a say on personnel/coaching decisions, but if JT is just the tip of the iceberg, then Cam has to go. A coach who can't gain the commendation and respect of a majority of the team doesn't deserve to be a coach.
     
  4. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Right this team owes Jason big time, he has every right to demand a trade.
    I'll take a first or two second rounders for him.
     
  5. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger New Member

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    I'll be shocked it we get more than a 3rd. In fact, I was thinking 4th before I saw all the discussion about a #2.
     
  6. djfresh47

    djfresh47 New Member

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    This team is on the verge of being historically bad. Cameron other head coaching stint gave him an impressive 18-37 record. The cleanest break from him would be if Michigan offered him the head coaching position.

    If the team goes 0-16 how can anybody have confidence in him? An NFL team should be able to win a game by accident. The HC and GM will always be the targets when a team is pathetic. It's easier to fire one or two guys than it is to fire 53.

    If fans want to say Cam was undermined i'll agree on two accounts. Mike Mularkey and Dom Capers were not hired by him.
     
  7. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    I can't believe that Cam took a powerhouse like Indiana and came up with a record like that.

    It almost sounds like he was out recruited by in state rival, Notre Dame. My god, that's impossible.

    I mean look at all the other coaches who had winning records at THE UNIVERSITY OF INDIANA!!!

    You're right, this is absolute proof that Cam is a bad coach.

    You should show this information to everyone. You have truly uncovered the smoking gun.:thumbup:

    :tongue:
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2007
  8. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box


    don't get me wrong, i like JT as a player. i am upset at his recent actions however. no one player should have this much power on a team.
     
  9. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    how can you say this team owes him anything? JT has had opportunity to go elsewere. he chose to stay and has been finacially compensated for it. saying the team owes him just gives him more power to possibly divide this team.

    i like JT as a player and would love for him to retire a Phin, but if he is SSooo unhappy that he can cause disruption in the locker room, then let's find him a new home.
     
  10. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Agree completely. And the thing that gets me is people seem to get upset at him for wanting to play for a winner, which blows my mind. Noone says "hey I want to play for one of the worst teams in the league for the last half of my career. " And he has his best yr playing under the scheme he was playing in last yr, so, lets take him away from that, makes sense to who? Cam I guess..
     
  11. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    wait a minute....I work for IU......you mean...WE HAVE A FOOTBALL TEAM?:lol:
     
  12. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good points. BTW, great name and avatar!
     
  13. Carabinieri44

    Carabinieri44 New Member

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    i love Taylor, but a 1st round pick or early 2nd round pick is FAR MORE WORTH IT.

    if Taylor goes....ud think Zach would want to go too. And im sure Zach could be had for a 3rd round pick. lets draft that Leman guy, or someone here seems real fond of Beau Bell, either one can be his successor.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    InFins,
    Would you have hired Cam if he had been OC of San Diego first, and had then gone to IU compiling the same record?

    Doesn't performance as a college head coach give at least some indication as to whether or not a coach can be the "leader of men" that is required of a head coach?

    For example, prior to Charlie Weiss becoming coach of ND I would have hired him in an instant to coach the Fins. However, I would have been doing so on the faith that his skills as OC would translate to head coach and that he could be the leader we needed. After watching his performance for two years at ND I would have serious trepidation about hiring him. His game mangement/personnell decisions have been lacking and he brought ND to their worst record in decades. And don't tell me it was about talent. ND had the talent to beat Navy, Air Force, etc.

    I overlooked Cam's college record when he wasa hired and I refused to listen to the posters who brought it up at the time, but seeing what we're seeing now, maybe we should have paid more atention.
     
  15. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Yeh...but UNLIKE Taylor, Zach has expressed the fact that he WANTS to retire here...he wants to stay a phin..and he's prob worth more to us then he would be in trade value.
     
  16. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    If Cam had coached at Notre Dame and done what Weiss has done, I'd seriously question whether he had the ability to be a head coach, considering that there would be zero roadblocks in his ability to get top talent.

    Indiana University has never and will never equal the talent level of a real division 1 school and I would not blame any head coach for posting a losing record at that school.

    Sam Wyche also coached at Indiana and posted a 3-8 record in his only season there, after which he coached the Bengals to the Super Bowl.

    So, the answer is yes, I would still have hired Cameron despite a losing record at a coach killing school.
     
  17. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok, fair enough. You're a better man than me I suppose b/c I couldn't sell that.

    However, isn't Kansas a "coach killing" job? Yet someone finally came in and won (Mangino). He is not getting Top 100 recruits.
     
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don't want to see Taylor traded, but if he is, I'd like to see him go to Jacksonville. They have a defensive juggernaut as it is and with the addition of Taylor...move over New England....move over Indy....and move over Pittsburgh. Jacksonville would be the team to be reckoned with. NO ONE would want to face them.

    But then again...I said the same thing about Miami when we aquired Joey Porter in the offseason....so of course I could be wrong.
     
  19. Trackstar

    Trackstar Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Call me crazy but I see some similarities in Cam & Bill Walsh's situation. Both had a losing record in the college ranks (if knowledge serves me me correct). Both of them came into the NFL Known for their Offensive minds, draft young QB's with similar size and traits (Both 6'2 200+ lbs, very smart and accurate passers) in the 2nd or 3rd round, and have a losing record their first season.

    As for JT. I love the guy but if we can get a 1st day pick for em.....see ya later.
     
  20. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I agree somewhat .The tail does not wag the dog .By the same token we should not pay too much attention to his negative comments born of frustration after so much incompetence .

    If Cam is fired the source of that frustration would be eliminated and he would be back to his old self.

    If Cam had shown any signs of competence I would agree that JT is being disruptive.

    If you believe as I do that Cam has to go then he is trying to hasten his demise and he is doing us a favor.

    By the law of averages we should have won two or three of those close games.Instead Cam found a way to lose them.

    His game and time management have been atrocious.Even if he gets the team to the playoffs in the future those defects will eliminate us in short order when Cam has to match wits with the likes of BB and some of the other great coaches.

    IMO He is not our future and we need to get on the track to our future asap.
    Does anyone really want Cam to get another year only to be fired midseason ?

    Anyway that my opinion and I cut my teeth on FH with unpopular opinions as some of the old timers will tell you.:lol:
     
  21. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

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    Well stated. There is no excuse for us to be winless this late in the season. Believe me, I wanted Cam to be the man and get this team on track, but he is really crapping the bed this season. I know he doesn't have much to work with, but there were several games that we could have won, but didn't. I hate the revolving door we've had on the coach's office, but I'd rather find someone who has a clue ASAP than at the middle or end of next year. As far as Taylor goes, he's always been a class act, and reading some of the negative posts directed at him makes me ashamed to be a Dolphin fan. He's given us his all for over a decade, been a cornerstone in our defense and was DPOY a year ago. He deserves better than he's gotten here, and as much as I'd like to see him retire a Fin I would not begrudge him if he forced a trade.
     
  22. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree. while I LOVE JT and would hate to see him go... he's played what.. 11 years now, he doesnt have many years left and with our current "rebuilding" status... its time to let him go, get some draft picks and give a truely great player a chance at winning a superbowl before he retires
     
  23. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    For JT's sake i hope we trade him to a contender, he deserves it. However, i bet who we trade him too will suck cause that's generally how these things work.
     
  24. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    I have to assume that there is plenty of evidence and talk that "coaching" is not the problem, and at least gather a consensus opinion that Cameron is still a capable head coach, to at least try to sell it.:lol:
    That IS impressive. And that certainly warrants Mangino some respect and consideration but, that doesn't mean a less successful coach, record wise, would get less consideration or respect. Success in college doesn't always equate to success in the NFL, as we know all to well. Just as some coaches are a better fit for college teams, so are there coaches who are better suited to professional teams. I believe Cam's demeanor is more suited to professional adult players because he's not going to freak out on them and treat them like children.

    Will it work? I still think it could. I have my doubts but, none so big that I wouldn't give him one more season....

    Thrill me with a name I haven't heard mentioned and I'd consider a coaching change but, the names I've heard, The mercenaries who wouldn't be here 5 years from now or the one who has never been quite good enough in a variety cities, just don't do it for me.

    And because JT's got his panties in a bunch about Cam, doesn't sway me at all. He isn't going to be here next year anyway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2007
  25. djfresh47

    djfresh47 New Member

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    That's his only other head coaching experience. Possibly the worst season in NFL history for a franchise is the only other evidance that he makes Richie Kotite look like Don Shula. It's easier to fire one or two guys than it is to fire 53. Is coaching the only problem? No, but it's not like it's helping the team out.
     
  26. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    And it's a lot harder to trust the guy you gave the job less than one year ago to right the ship but, wins and losses are not the end all be all, when it comes to judging the job he's done, so, if you thought he was worthy enough to hire than you have to give him time to do the job.
    Maybe this is a good analogy...When I do certain finishes in my work, sometimes they require quite a few different base coats and colors that I assure you are quite ugly 99% of the time but once the final coats are applied, those ugly steps become a part of the beautiful completed work.

    Should i have been fired because the unfinished product was ugly?

    We're in the midst of some ugly steps but, one day, the players who lived through this atrocity and are still around, will use this season as motivation. There's nothing like losing every game you play to make losing an even more bitter pill to swallow.

    I doubt we'll have to worry about a coaching mistake keeping us out of the Super Bowl next year, and if there isn't some sort of impressive forward movement from this team and it's head coach, then I'd seriously consider endorsing a coaching change but, until then I'm trusting that my judgement less than one year ago was sound and that dividends will be paid eventually.
     
  27. hof13

    hof13 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The team existed before Cameron got here. He thought it was a playoff caliber team.

    It's more like Cameron took over your work after a couple of coats, and the only tool he had to work with is a sander.

    Any positive progress you had prior to his taking over is completely gone - and you're assuming that he's going to work with something other than a sander next year. I just don't think that's a good assumption.
     
  28. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    No, he sold it as a play-off caliber team. That's a head coaches' job in the off season. Ugly but true.


    I'm looking at the materials he's got for the rest of the job, and it looks to me like he has some good things to continue to work with, once he sands off the bits he doesn't want.
     
  29. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    I just get that vibe that JT flat out wants to be playing for another team next season. Im not against it. He has looked flat and if we can get a decent trade value for him then im all for it with both parties happy. JT will hopefully get to the HOF and it will be wearing a Dolphin jersey.
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    When I was a wee lad, we had Randy Grimes of the Bucs come to talk to our 4th grade class (cough cough) and this was when the Bucs were working on record 3 straight #1 overall picks, and he said with a straight face:

    "Our goal is to win the super bowl"


    Is Cam Cameron the Head Coach to do the sanding?

    That is the most important question heading into 2008, can he go from "OC "genius" Hot Coaching Prospect" to "Rebuilder of Dolphins"?

    And why?
     
  31. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Infins,

    The fact that you would even try to sell it makes me impressed with your convictions, lol.

    I think what Mangino has done is impressive as hell. KU had done nothing for 100 years. It's just incerdible what a challenege that was and now they're in a BCS game. I'm actually surprised Mangino hasn't gotten a sniff as at least an OC in the NFL. Unfortunately, due to his body type/size he may not get a shot at a head job in the image conscious NFL.

    I'll throw out a name that I think is intriguing that is not a retread. Giants DC Steve Spagnuolo. He has reinvigorated that defense and seamlessly worked in some young guys like Aaron Ross.
     
  32. Kudda

    Kudda Banned Troll

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    Does it really matter if he does or doesn't want to be traded? He oughta be. Since last year, and maybe even the year before that. If we can get something for Zach he oughta go too. I love them guys as much as anybody but we HAVE to start with a clean slate, and that means getting as many picks as possible using our vets as bait.
     
  33. Finominal

    Finominal New Member

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    Jason deserves to play for a contender, as does anybody who has been a class veteran in the league that long. I can see why he would want to have something meaningful to play for. If he could play another three years (look at Seau) he’ll probably be a pro bowler again. Anybody facing Manning, Brady, or even Romo twice a year would love to have him. We are more in need of picks right now. I have no problem cleaning house here for picks and cap space. Hey Jason, been great, see ya!
     
  34. #1DoLfAnOKesh

    #1DoLfAnOKesh New Member

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    i would think JT is more valuable than chambers, but his age and an off year dont help..prob a 2nd...ZT isnt worth much now either
     
  35. billsfaninpeace

    billsfaninpeace New Member

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    I am willing to bet he does not get that much if he is traded.

    Big Contract

    Wrong side of 30 and this year showing it.

    Andd every off-season retirement talk

    I would guess a 3rd at best if you are lucky
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    8 sacks and 4 forced fumbles for a Dolphins team going nowhere.

    He normally has about 10 sacks on average, so in that light, a standard year.

    A pass rushing DE is good commodity and perhaps Mr. Mueller can earn his pay and get some good value for JT, he did for Chambers.
     
  37. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    Wow, Mangino is a HOT head!!

    Spagnuolo looks like a promising up an comer but, only one years worth of coordinator's experience has got to give one great pause. He'd be a tough sell too. He'd be a guy that could talk JT into staying, that's for sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2007

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