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[Merged] Dan Henning | Wildcat Killing Drives

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SCall13, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    400+ yards and 24 points not enough says fans.. I love that headline.
     
  2. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    I get that to a degree. My point is yardage and points weren't really the issue. We got great production from the offense. Our offense wasn't the problem in this game, but yet here we are again this week calling out Henning.

    How about we focus on the units and players that actually did play poorly this week. Instead of crucifying the only side of the ball that showed up to play?
     
    resnor likes this.
  3. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We've used the Wildcat to set up the rest of the offense and on its own for years.....its worked for us. I really don't think the offense was the problem on Sunday Night. I think blaming Henning has just become a mob mentality type thing for any loss. I'm sorry but the offense did its part. If special teams and the defense had made plays we wouldn't even be talking about Henning. He gets blamed for everything and honestly I think he's one of the major pluses for this team.
     
  4. Hotnuke

    Hotnuke Hotnuke

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    I loved the Wildcat when it was winning us games in 2008. When our opponents began to figure out ways to neutralize it occasionally in 2009 I wasn't such a big fan, and now that we've got the personnel in 2010 to EXCEL in a base formation, and our opponents have not only figured out how to neutralize it occasionally, but have developed ways to shut it down every G*DDAMN time, I say get rid of the damn thing.

    One thing people have to remember (especially when you consider the 'Phins are NO LONGER running it wih ANY real threat of a pass-play coming out of the formation) is that the Wildcat is NOT some progressive, intensely "Wild" formation. It's conservative, smash-mouth football. And that's fantastic if you mix it up with some pass plays coming out of it to keep defenses honest, but if you don't, it's actually a HUGE liability to your offense, not an asset.

    Now, if, as one poster suggested, they don't completely scrap it, but bring it out on very "special" occasions, and even then pass out of it some of the time, then it could actually be great, as ANY trick play can if it catches a defense sleeping. However, no one's sleeping on the Wildcat right now, and all Henning and Sparano are doing by throwing it out there, especially at the times they are, is killing drives and losing us games.

    If they can't see that, and soon, then I'd say scrap THEM. We have championship-caliber talent on this team now, and if the coaches refuse to use it properly, I say go get some damn coaches who will.
     
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  5. Hotnuke

    Hotnuke Hotnuke

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    Sorry, MBMONK, but I haven't seen ANYONE crucifying Henne, B-Marsh, Bess, Hartline, Williams, or Brown. (well, there were a couple of mild comments about Hartline and Williams stumbling, and one about Brown's errant pass out of the WC, but nothing that could be considered "crucifying."

    What we ARE crucifying, is Henning's pathetic insistence on running the WC every single time the offense was getting into a flow, effectively killing three drives and settling for FGs when it's likely we would have scored three TDs on those drives.

    What we're also crucifying is his inept play-calling on the goalline stance. What we're also crucifying is the fact that, despite numerous people's unwillingness to recognize it, if your offense keeps stalling out, you're putting MORE pressure on your defense.

    Expecting our defense to play to that level EVERY single series is beyond ludicrous, it's almost criminal. And that's what I see from a lot of fans defending that moron Henning. Instead of putting the blame squarely where it belongs, they blame the defense.

    Did the defense make some mistakes? Absolutely. But you have to ask yourself WHY did they make those mistakes. My contention is they made those damn mistakes because they're TRYING to win the game for the 'Phins because they realise Henning's offense isn't going to outduel anyone. They feel the onus is on them to score points.

    Now, they can possibly do that occasionally, but to EXPECT them to do that is insane. For them to be put in position by the pathetically stupid playcalling of Henning to feel themselves that they HAVE to do it is a recipe for disaster, which is precisely what we got.

    If Henning didn't run the WC last night at all, you know what I would wager my life and soul on would have happened? Miami would have won the game 35-14, or at worst, 35-17. Why? Because our offense scoring would have changed completely how the Jets played their game, and would have fed right into our defense being able to play to their strengths.

    The fact people don't see this is beyond me sometimes. It's so damn simple to understand.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  6. Hotnuke

    Hotnuke Hotnuke

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    As I said in my previous post, and I'll try and explain it further here, I simply don't understand how people don't seem to be able to connect the game as a whole. they look at one part of the game and simply NEVER connect it with what happens on the opposite side of the ball.

    It's precisely why you hear morons make statements like "Did you see how our defense intercepted Brett Favre three times." while equally stupid jerks will say, "Your defense got lucky Brett Favre was having a lousy day and threw you those three interceptions."

    The fact is, both statements are true to some degree, and only watching the actual plays on the field will tell you which is MORE true to each situation. In the same way, what happens with a team's defense affects their offense as well.

    Simply put, yes, our defense gave up 400+ yards and 31 points. Yes, our offense put up 400+ yards and scored 23 points. However, if you try and tell me this means our defense lost us the game, I'd say HOGWASH.

    I say that because if our offense had scored 35 points not only would we not have lost in the scenario where the Jets score 31 (35 beats 31), but it would have changed completely how the Jets offense played their game, would have led them to play to the STRENGTHS of our defense, and likely would have led to them scoring 17 points (nothing but a field goal after that initial 14 points), and we would have won the game going away, 35-17.

    What happens on offense affects the defense, and to a lesser degree what happens on defense affects the offense.
     
  7. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Yep. 400+ yards and 24 points, would have been 27 points if we were in a position score wise to kick a field go at the end, That's not good enough? Really? I feel for whoever replaces Henning as OC. Rather LARGE expectations they are stepping into.

    What exactly were the "strengths" of our defensive play last night? List them please. I would like to discuss them.

    EDIT: Actually don't bother. I clearly understand your opinion and disagree with it.

    EDIT2: We won time of possesion, total yards, and reality would have scored 27 points. What more does the defense want or need the offense to do for heavens sake? The offense even had the Jets player FAKING INJURIES to try and give time for their defense to catch their breath. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?!
     
  8. Hotnuke

    Hotnuke Hotnuke

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    Typical of posters on many boards I've met, mbmonk, you're more concerned with "winning" an argument than you are with actually exploring why we actually lost.

    You CLEARLY DON'T understand my opinion, because if you did, there's no way you could disagree with it. For my opinion is simple, and although not applied to last night's game by most so-called "experts", is something that is universally understood and agreed upon.

    Namely, that if you score points and go up SIGNIFICANTLY on a team, it forces them to change their gameplan and almost ALWAYS forces them to play a one-dimensional game. THAT plays to the strengths of Miami's defense, as it does with ANY defense. If you can't understand that, I'd say you have no hope of understanding football; period.

    In fact, I'd say if you can't understand that how an offense plays SIGNIFICANTLY affects how their defense might play, in ANY sport, you have no hope of understanding ANY sport.

    Anyway, I'm through with this. I've dealt with lots of people on lots of message boards who have no real desire to understand what someone who criticizes their views is saying, but simply want to defend their views as if they're gospel. You're exactly that type, and I have NO desire any further of going back and forth with you beyond this post.

    I'm sure you'll respond, and have fun doing so. I'll gladly let you have the last word, as I've said my piece.
     
  9. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    You deserve to get called out when you have a game plan that is working and at crucial times veer from that plan to something that has not been working. He killed us in critical junctures be getting cute. Criticism justified.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  10. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I'm surprised that, on a day where Henne has a career day and our offense generates the most yards it has in a long time, people are complaining about our OC..... and on the same day our defense folds and allows ~440 yards and can't stop the Jets.

    I'm looking at our DC after this one. Henning earned a pass this week.
     
  11. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

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    Ok.....I guess everyone doesn't have a problem with settling for 4 field goals. The offense did a good job but they didn't score touchdowns when they needed to. The play calling was horrendous during the most critical points of the game (ie in and near the red zone). I don't see how we as fans are not allowed to be upset about this? There is something SERIOUSLY deficient in our red zone offense. It's not the players. It's Dan Henning. So if Henning calls 10 solid plays, then when the team is in the red zone calls 1, 2 or 3 moronic head scratching plays (like 2nd and goal from the 2 for instance. Brought back memories of the playoff game against Baltimore when we faced the same situation and came away with a FIELD GOAL), and ends up killing the once successful drive, nobody has a problem with that? It's not isolated incidents either. I'm seeing a very clear PATTERN with the way this offense is ran. I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of seeing us march down the field and then have a drive stalled because Henning is a MORON. Whoever wants to sit back and praise this guy needs to WAKE UP. I am sorry but if you can't get 6 points from 2nd and goal from the 2, with the personnel this team has, than you do not deserve to be coaching in the NFL any longer. Do not sit there and say it was the execution that was the problem. It was the calls in the most critical points of the game. If just one or two of those drives ends up in a touchdown, we are 3-0 and not discussing this. He is clearly overthinking situations and it has to end. Get used to this feeling if someone else doesn't start taking over play calling responsibilites. If I was Sparano I would relieve him of his duties. Today.
     
  12. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    But when are you NOT going to be upset with Henning's play calling? Basically it doesn't matter if we win like weeks one and two, and now it doesn't matter if we score 24 points and 400+ yards. People are going to complain no matter what. That is the point.
     
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  13. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

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    He keeps making the same mistakes during games. Hey I guess it could have been worse right? We could have seen Brown instead of Ricky this time with the halfback option on 2nd and goal from the 2. That might have worked!
     
  14. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Muck. Everyone makes mistakes, but repeating it hoping the low percentage chance that someone blows their assignment so the play will pay off is getting really old.
     
    MikeHoncho likes this.
  15. Hexonx

    Hexonx Active Member

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    Botton line we don't need the Wildcat anymore and it has cost us a lot more than just games, it cost us a 2nd round pick as well. I really blame Tony Sparano for all of it, since he knows what plays are being called and he can veto anything he is the head coach so ultimately the blame falls on him. Coaching cost us this game plain and simple if you ask me.

    Now Ricky Williams looks pretty old these days and has been fumbling, but just by the numbers how is Ronnie Brown not getting the ball 20 to 25 times a game? If he had the ball more even last night we might win.

    RUSHING ATT YDS AVG TD
    Ronnie Brown 37 199 5.4 1
    Ricky Williams 35 120 3.4 0

    Play call that really killed me besides teh negative yards wildcat fail plays, was when we were on the 5 yard line or something and didnt run the ball at them once, man something is wrong, we have one of the best FBs in the game we need to pound it sometimes.
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hotnuke...the Jets scored 14 right off the bat, thereby making our offense play right to their strengths.

    If Henning called three straight runs, and didn't get in from the two, people would be *****ing that Henning didn't call at least one fade in that situation. Henning knows that EVERYONE expects us to pound the ball from the two. Calling a pass isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not throwing it to Marshall is piss poor, though.
     
  17. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    The real reason we ****ing hate the WC is simply because it was called. Bad D isn't called, it's executed. Nolan didn't tell JA, "Now make sure he gashes you all night". the ST coach didn't say, "If you ****ers get that punt off I'll kill you". It's always more hurtful when an OC says "**** the fact that Marshall, Bess, Hartline, and Henne are having great games, Ronnie, you go play QB". It's the snatching failure from success that pisses you off. For some strange reason, this is a coaching staff that says, "we'll do it till they stop it", often referring to the running game. Well, last night, they never stopped Henne. But, the OC stopped him instead. They stopped the Wildcat, but hell, might as well keep trying. Why not simply translate the "do it till they stop it" attitude to all facets of the game. The Wildcat was born of necessity. It was 08, we were 0-2, we had no Offense. It's 2010, we were 2-0, we have an offense. The Wildcat is in my honest opinion, a part of the playbook now left for huge leads and desperate times.
     
    54Fins likes this.
  18. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    I agree,bro. :knucks:
    Take a breath,we will get through this.
     
  19. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    That is BS. How do you think Keller was a pro bowler in the first half and then faded away in the second half?
     
  20. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Are you implying execution isn't a part of Defense? We saw it in the second half with Jason Allen. Bell didn't execute properly on Keller in the first half then got it together. Save for the Moses coverage I can't complain about the calls. The second Keller TD, Carpenter got beat and Bell was out of position. Then they tightened up. Then comes Allen who gets the safety help and doesn't execute properly by jumping the route for what would have been a PD or INT. The D calls weren't that bad. They executed terribly.

    EDIT: Also, you forgot Bell fell down on one TD. He was in good position but just fell down.
     
  21. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Execution is part of the entire freaking game! :lol:

    No, my response was directed to the fact that your post implied that the defense was simply running around out there. That there was not a "call" made to get the defense into position to make a play. There is a play caller on defense and to be honest, his job is more difficult than that of the offensive play caller.
     
  22. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You didn't even understand what I said. I said that Nolan called the right D. It just wasn't executed well. Before you call bull****. Know what you're calling.
     
  23. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    So my next question would be why Henning does not receive your same benefit of doubt. I mean heck........ If bad D isn't called, it's poor execution. Why isn't it the same for offense? Here, I'll say it:

    Bad offense isn't called, bad offense is poor execution.

    I am certain Mike Martz will agree with me. :up:
     
  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    and to further that. i was watching the again last night. and it came to one of most hated calls, the wildcat sweep to marshall. thing is that on review, the jets had stacked the left side, they were overloaded to that side. there was no way you could run to that side on the defensive alignment that was called. Ronnie Brown should have checked out of that, kept the ball and either run up the middle or to the right. it was a blown read by ronnie.

    sweep number two out of the wildcat was just a great play by ihadebgo of the jets who stayed at the edge and didnt get caught pursuing like half the jets defense. if he had bit on the fake like the jets deffenders that play would have gone for 15 yds.

    so with two of the most hated calls we find that one was a bad read by a player and the second was an outstanding play by one jets defender.
     
  25. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I won't give Henning the benefit of the doubt simply because he switched it up while the conventional offense was working. I call the plays bad calls simply because of what happened before it rather than what happened when it was called. Those weren't called in the hopes of jump starting drives, they were called to mix it up or what have you. I would have personally kept the conventional Offense going. I'm not a Co-ordinator, but, I would have kept going with what worked.
     
    MikeHoncho likes this.
  26. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Don't be ridiculous. The Cobbs-endaround was meant to go 30+ yards to the house bro.
     
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  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    When opening this post from the Forum Lobby all I saw was...."Merged-Dan Henning" I swear to god I cracked a smile because for a split second I though it ended with. FIRED. :pity:
     

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