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Miami "Small Box" Offense same as in preseason

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DOLFANMIKE, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Yes.

    I don't think he has a field view. I think he's got ONE fix (two receiver group) and when it's not there he is looking for WIDE OPEN in the second fix. He sees that too late. THIS is why we see so many checkdowns. It's either going to be early or late with him. Therefore Henning will continue to protect him.

    The kid is running a pro offense. The mechanics are there. The game management is there obviously because we do not get time management penalties. Of course Sparano is not going to put him in that position too often. So when the right personel is not on the field in the right amount of time, we will continue to see the unexplainable time outs. People keep asking about the questionable time outs. The thing is that the camera is ALWAYS on something other than the field clock AND the personel group. Sparano has his own clock in his head. If the personel isn't on the field when the field clock is at a certain point, it's a time out and the coaches will take the blame. THAT is accountibility. I've seen alot of others that just put it on the QB to manage or on defense just risk the penalty. Sparano isn't going to do that.

    But I digress.........

    It's alot to handle BEFORE you ever get to the line and take a look at the defense.

    It's game to game. I've seen more that I like than I dislike. But I'm human. I want to see championship play but it isn't there yet. It doesn't look like it will be here this year.

    It's not them. They are going to stress taking care of the football. They are going to stress no turnovers. THAT is there job. HENNE has to play football. He's got to play football WHILE taking care of the football. That is the dilemna. The player has to say "I'm going to play and let the chips fall where they may." He either succeeds or fails. But the first thing he has to learn is how to be smart. Because if he becomes a turnover machine he will be fired. That is the dilemna of being a player. Coaches can teach you how to be smart. You have to play. So far this year, Henne is choosing to just be smart. That will win you alot of ball games but it will not win a championship.
     
  2. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    ........and that is why people do it. But after watching years of futility here with the musical chairs, you should take a look at the league.

    Marty Schottenheimer has coached for 40 years and never won anything yet people want him.

    Bill Cowher kept the same job for a decade having won nothing. He gets the shiny ring and now everyone wants him. He's a freaking hero in Pittsburgh and for what? One ring in 15 years?

    Jeff Fisher has not won a damn thing an he's the longest tenured coach in the NFL.

    You get a staff that allows you to be competitive. You wait on the spark that lights the fire. That's just what the NFL has become.


    You said it. NEXT YEAR! If we expect anything in the form of playoffs from this team this year it's going to come from everyone else carrying Henne. That's just the way it's got to be. I'll take a playoff appearance. It beats being irrelevant.

    I would think that it makes being there for the ride all the much sweeter. :up:
     
  3. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    When i saw this thread languishing empty i knew it could generate some great discussion and it has. I have learned some things in the course of reading all the posts, honestly what i hope to find in this forum, thanks for all the insight folks, its appreciated.
     
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  4. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    thanks for the videos zod, they help
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :lol: :yes: :lol:
     
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I somewhat disagree. The first pass over the middle the Marshall seemed like it was possibly his 3rd read and he was by no means wide open...... and it was on time. I know he has it in him to do it as the game continues to slow down for him. Utilizing the pump fake (I would think) is a sign of such.
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :lol: I was thinking the same thing!
     
  8. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Seriously!! It's not as if teams haven't realized he's a receiving monster until this season. WTF. I guess this is the first time in his career that he's being doubled. :glare:
     
  9. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    What first pass? I checked the videos that I linked and found nothing you referenced. This past Sunday he was 0-4 in his first 4 pass attempts. I just want to see what you play you are referencing......
     
  10. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    It's a funny thing going on here. I do not pay attention to alot of posts or threads clamouring about play calls. I like DolfanMike and I'm sure he's going to have a good response when he comes back around. The thing that got my ire up about this particular thread is that he cited COACHING - specifically play calls and putting the players in the best position to make plays. He cited his coaching experience as a reference. Well I consider myself a member of that fraternity too. And some of the time I find myself a defender of coaching staff almost to a fault. But I firmly believe this is not the case of the matter.

    I mean do we really want this as our post game press conference?

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/minnesota-vikings/09000d5d81ba4ded/Playbook-Was-Childress-out-of-line

    or worse this one......

    YouTube - Jim Mora, PLAYOFFS!? The FULL and COMPLETE SPEECH

    The younger folks around here may think this is just a great Coors light ad. The guy got fired for among other things...........the press conferences of that year. That was Peyton Manning's 3rd year in the NFL. Do you think that Peyton Manning was the Peyton Manning that you see now? Is this what our post game press conferences should look like based upon what's obvious on film?

    I have watched for the entire year as a few beat writers in Miami needle Dan Henning because the NFL recently required that coordinators be made available to the media. Armando is number one among them. This guy has already proven himself to be a liar. He is a drama queen. Imagine my surprise that when I post video HERE on this forum no less than two posts take off from what I have posted. You can find them here:

    http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=55782

    and here:

    http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=55784

    .....then this morning I arrive home and find Dorkmando's latest blog. What is he talking about?

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...away-from-statistics-and-paint-the-pictu.html

    Essentially I have turned the finger on one thread. What took off from that in this great land we call the internet? Well it certainly wasn't playcalling from the standpoint of the two threads. But Dorkmando is on a mission. He ain't letting Henning off the hook so quick. It's what I call "marrying yourself to an idea". That's what he has done. It's what alot of people have done.

    Notice that he INCLUDED "being prevented". That is a vendetta. The vendetta is created by a drama queen that has found no other purpose in life than to create contreversy where no other exists.

    Trace them back for yourself:

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...or-somehow-repaired-the-miami-dolphins-m.html

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...-dan-the-tight-end-screen-call-was-great.html

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2010/10/henning-defends-wildcat-calls-again.html

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2010/10/flawed-thinking-defends-wildcat-attack.html

    Now I only focus on this pissant because he has the BIG pen. What he is participating in is "the pen is mightier than the sword". And he seems to have a bunch of minions that follow his every word.

    What I know is that his writings (nor that of his minions) show that he has a clue about the history, evolution, nor execution of modern day football. He's here for the story and the story isn't about football. It's about everything other than football. Do you actually think he reviews ONE tape before putting his pen to paper? Hell no. It's just pot shots which is alot of what goes on around here.

    Which is why I went directly to film. Why? Because film don't lie. And if you asked DolfanMike if he's got some film in his vault of his boys that he isn't too proud of and I'm sure if you asked him about the film - he would say "a boat load." I know I have some of my own.

    What do I want? I've said it already. I have my own mission. I want stability. If Dan Henning can't get that QB to an acceptable pro level by year four (the same as Manning) he should be gone. But the fact of the matter is that Dan Henning took Jake Delhomme to the NFC Championship and he has not done a damn thing since Dan Henning was fired largely due to outside pressure in Carolina. Then Dan Henning took what some refer to as a "noodle arm" to the playoffs on a team that was 1-15 the year prior.

    I thought we might find that stability with Bill Parcells in the front office. It certainly quieted things down for a bit. But I see the volume cranking up. I see it cranking up because that old grumbling fellow can't step out of the office and say.......

    YouTube - Jim Mora - You think you know

    Quite frankly the local media has become a comedy and subsequently created this as the norm among the fan base.
     
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  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Zod for President 2012...

    Seriously though, you make some good points. But the OP has truth to it as well. There are a host of things that can be placed SQUARELY on Henning and the offensive staff IMO. If there's any tempo, rhythm or strategic plan behind what we're doing offensively then I don't see it.

    1. We have the the top YAC WR in the league and Henning doesn't show any inkling of knowing how to use him. I'm talking smoke routes. Any time 19 gets more than 5 yd cushion the ball should be going out there, he's going to get 4-6 yds, and occasionally he'll break a tackle and get even more. Let's see how many times these corners want to tackle a 6'4 230 man one on one. I'm talking screens. If teams want to stack the box, throw the screen, let Jake and Fasano run out there and pound on the DB. Force the DL to run to the sideline several times a game, it'll pay off in the 2nd half. Those are two easy plays that can generate cheap yds, they should be a staple of our offense, yet we don't run them. We've thrown a couple screens to Bess which went nowhere. Hartline has gotten two smoke routes, he picked up 3yds vs NE and fumbled vs. Pitt. Marshall has gotten 1 smoke for 3 yds and 1 screen that had to be thrown away b/c the DE was in the throwing lane. The screens and smoke routes are an excellent way to set up fade/back shoulder throws b/c they force DBs to hug the LOS to prevent the cheap easy yds. Jab-Jab-Hook, this is Offensive Football 101 and I can't see why we're not doing it. It's not like we're an explosive offense that doesn't need cheap yds. The Colts have the worlds best QB yet they run tons of screens & pick plays to generate cheap yds. We need to do the same. Thats coaching.

    2. Draws and Screens. They should be a staple in EVERY offense b/c they discourage the blitz and keep DL/OLB honest. Our draw/screen game has sucked since Henning got here, and my hypothesis is that we don't spend much time practicing these plays nor much thought into incorporating them into the game plan. Ricky is a good open field runner, Ronnie is among the best at his position as a receiver, they should be used more in the screen game. Instead we run throwback screens to Fasano, which, while effective both times, can only be used about once every 4-5 games. Instead of using screens and draws to discourage pressure packages, we use max protect, a lot. More than any team in the league. I'm not saying we should go Mike Martz crazy, but C'mon man. On the second play of the Pitt game we ran a play action pass and left 9 guys in to block. Henne had 6 seconds to throw, but he could've had 10 or 15 and it wouldn't have mattered b/c Marshall was the only guy in the pattern and he had 2-3 guys on him. We'd just gotten a gift possession in the red zone, why are we max protecting at all? A sack doesn't matter at that point, we're already inside the 20. Stupid offense IMO. I'd only sanction a play call like that if we were backed up in our own end or on the far edge of FG range, places where a sack could be disastrous. That's coaching.

    3. Personnel groupings. We shouldn't be in a 2TE set, ever. Our best group is the 3WR 1TE group. Bess creates matchup problems for just about any team we face, he should be out there as much as possible. We can still run the ball out of it, Fas is a beast in run blocking. I don't understand why we putting a 2nd TE on the field though. And Lousaka is playing like crap compared to what he did last year. I have no clue why he was in the game on the last drive, even after the 2 min warning. That's coaching.

    I don't want to sound like a coach basher, I'm not. Harry Houdini would have trouble squeezing 25 points out of the group we have on offense. A lot of good play calls go to waste b/c of bad execution. Ronnie dances in the backfield too much, Ricky missed a WIDE OPEN cut back lane on that 3rd and goal from the 2 in the 1st qtr vs Pitt and he fumbles to much. Henne needs to learn how use his eyes as a weapon instead of always relying on his arm. So there's plenty of culprits out there. But my overall opinion is that we're just not a team that is built to win, plain and simple. We're a team that's built to "keep it close". We want to shorten the game, protect the ball, avoid mistakes, etc. We want to make make it to the 4th qtr with a chance to win, but with who? Close games are decided by who can make plays, and we have no play makers (except Marshall). Our offense can't be relied upon to go down the field for a winning drive. Our defense can't be relied upon to make the big stop, and even when they do the refs are there to stick it to us. Our ST can't be relied upon to bail us out, they are more liability than asset. Not even the best teams can blow us out, but not even the worst teams have reason to fear us. We're incapable of debacling anyone or being debacled, IMO we're going to play 12-14 down to the wire type games (we've already played 5) and we'll win half of them give or take one or two. That's a recipe to win 7-9 games b/c teams, especially this one, can't rely on winning on the last drive or two every week. The odds catch up to you eventually.
     
  12. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    One guy is not the issue. It's coaches and players.
     
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  13. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    The problem with analyzing film is that we arent in the meeting, or on the practice field to hear what is being taught. We dont know the read progression on any given play. We also aren't evaluating ALL of the film. What we can determine is this - our Offense is not getting it done and has not been consistent for awhile now. Some of the problems seem to be "part of the philosophy" of our scheme.

    There is no way this is just a player problem. It is also not just a coaching problem. Speaking to the latter, again I'll say we do very little to create mismatches in coverage. We are basic to a fault in a league that watches alot of film on everything we do.

    If the teams we play consistently see us not attacking parts of the field, they are not going to make it a priority to defend those areas. If the coaching staff allows a player to play (Henne in this case) that isn't making the reads the way hey want, whose fault is that? You don't play potential and last very long. Hard for me to believe after all they have praised Henne that they arent happy with his play, but on the same hand his play has been up and down. The whole situation is frustrating, partly because the "problem" isnt the same thing or person every week. The one consistent thing though is we do not attack the whole field. WHY? If you can answer that and write a book I'll read it.

    Regardless of why we do not attack the whole field. I see some coaching reasons why and some player reasons why... I've said that over and over for 3 years now.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We have the wrong pieces, DMike, that is the problem in a nut shell.

    We have two power running backs and a Coach that believes in ball control and avoiding turnovers, but we have an Oline that is far better suited to pass blocking and only 1 Te who can block, those are not the ingredients for a successful offensive effort.

    We have 6 Running Backs, 4 are better blockers, we have 3 possession receivers, and we have no real threat at Te and no speedy specialist running backs.

    So we are were we are, run the ball when we can, call safe passes, and just try to grind the ball down the field, to me the situation screams "double down on power running with the 1 Back offense".
     
  15. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I dont buy that the coaches have no roll in our short comings. We are not doing much to create plays. I'm not sure we have a pass blocking OL either. I just dont see our woes as being a single issue. We may be far away in terms of both coaching and playing. It will be interesting to see how Ross handles things.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think a part of that is the offense, at it's core, is predicated on running the ball and gaining positive yardage consistently, the whole of the offensive roster revolves around that happening, when it doesn't happen and they transition to other things, that is where the offense is atrophied imho.

    For example, with all of those blocking backs, we do not have a Sproiles/Leon Washington type of back to make plays on check downs, we do not have a Te who can challenge the safeties, that means the passing game is built around ubber safe routes and simple reads for Chad Henne.

    This is why I've argued "if" we are going to run this style of offense, then Chad Pennington should be running it as it suits his skills..

    But "if" that is not going to happen and Henne will be the Qb, then double down on the power running game and stop taking half measures.
     
  17. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I bet we have lots more changes in this offseason than most fans would expect.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Offseason? They have to make it work now please.

    I think we are going to see more Lex Hilliard in the coming weeks, imho he will play Fb/Te but go out into pass patterns.
     
  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    First pass to Marshall..... or first completion to him.
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I hope so.
     
  21. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    How do I have it wrong? I was asking if that's what Mike was saying (ultra conservative, etc.). ;) But the mentality is in the back of his mind.

    That's not automatically a bad mentality. Especially with a young quarterback. The challenge is whether you can stay true to that and yet be aggressive when you need to be.

    I've seen Henne not see guys running open down the field in person (usually Ginn). I've also seen Chad Pennington do it (usually Ginn). One of the beat guys said Hartline was running wide open down the field on that fateful last drive on Sunday.

    I know Henne is automatically going to miss more than Pennington. And we've seen the expected lack of anticipation. I just wonder if the "touchdown/checkdown" mentality adversely affects us sometimes. Do we not wait long enough for plays to develop at times?

    Frankly I feel Henning has called two pretty solid games since the bye. Generally my complaint in the past has been those 3-4 WTF calls that really hurt. So it's not as if he's stumbling into these games.

    More than anything, I'd just like to see more shots downfield to Marshall, coverage or not. If it's anywhere in the zip code, it'll be a catch, incomplete or a PI.

    Beyond that, I strongly agree on personnel. We lacked speed heading into the season and it's even worse than I anticipated. The backfield will be overhauled IMO. We need more speed at WR and/or TE as well.

    But this team is absolutely competitive right now, yes sir. And continued development at QB will cure a lot of ills.
     
  22. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    What I mean is I expect to see some coaches and players let go that may surprise us all. I don't think Ross is going to sit on his hands on our inconsistency and I'd go so far as to say I think he may be drawn to a more aggressive attack in Miami. Just speculation though.
     
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  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Depends, I do think in yr 3 we all should have a much better feeling for which games we will win, and which ones we will lose, and it just is not there.

    To my eye, we should all be confident we can beat the Bengals, but "we" are not, there is no excuse for it, Sparano at the end of last season said 'Mediocrity will not be tolerated here".

    Well Tony, you'd best get busy and fix some stuff or we are headed to another mediocre season, if Henne is brought up I call bull**** simply because that is their choice to develop him, if he cannot lead us to wins then that choice carries consequences.
     
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  24. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    uuuuuummmmm.... How to put this in writing. :lol:

    That was streetball. The primary target on the play was Hartline. McFadden had the coverage on Hartline. McFadden was playing soft (3 yards off) coverage on Hartline. McFadden bailed as soon as the ball was snapped. At 10 yards, Hartline (on a double move) had still not gotten equal to McFadden's depth. Henne actually gave up on Hartline's route before he made a move.

    This was a Single Safety coverage. The SS was hovering the wide side at or near the line of scrimmage. So the single safety is the READ.

    Marshall ran a drag. Cobbs ran a dig from the same side. The pump fake that you saw was to get the OLB to move toward Cobbs.

    Why do I call it streetball? The read is the FS. If the FS moves to Hartline, you throw to the drag. If the FS moves to the drag, you throw to Hartline.

    Henne gave up on Hartline's depth on the play. I don't blame him. Hartline was still 2 yards in front of McFadden. So who got the ball? Marshall right?

    Henne threw into a double coverage. The Corner was still on Marshall who was running the drag. The FS was still in the zone behind Marshall and he was the man who made the tackle (Clark).

    So what you saw as a third read was really a dead play. It was dead the moment Hartline could not get behind McFadden. We entered streetball.


    Which brings me to another topic - language. When I refer to a "fix" it is because "read" is thrown around too loosely. The play we just reviewed was a ONE READ play. The "fix" or "read" was ONE PLAYER - Ryan Clark.

    The progression would be - "If not here, there. If not there, outlet. If not outlet, throw it away." All of which was decided by ONE READ.


    Now let's go back to playcalling for a minute. When you want to criticize playcalling this is something that you look for. Would it make sense to be calling this play versus a Cover 2 defense? Obviously not. There would be two safeties covering both perimeter routes with only one outlet covered by three linebackers. That wasn't the case with this play. It was a man-free coverage. When you start seeing coordinators calling plays versus the wrong defenses consistently, that's when it's time to hang the noose from the tree. That doesn't happen with this guy.
     
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  25. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Thought this was interesting...below are Henne's QB Ratings vs. situational score as per NFL.com:

    Ahead : 49.9

    Behind : 91.8

    Behind by 1-8 Points : 85.2

    Behind by 9-16 Points : 147.5

    Tied : 130.7

    So, basically, he's had poor performance when we're up, and has been great when we're down or tied with the game in the balance. What does that tell you?

    To me, it's a reflection of our offensive philosophy. We don't take the reigns off until we're losing, and when we're winning, we shackle Henne to the point that he's totally unproductive. When we're down, defenses should be keying on the pass and the rating should go down, but it doesn't, it goes up. When we're up and we should be able to pass witht he short to intermediate passing zones with relative ease becuase the defnse is trying to stop the run, it goes the opposite way. Why? Strange to say the least. But I come away thinking our coaches are stunting Henne's growth by not letting him attack. Thoughts?
     
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  26. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Interesting stats.
     
  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    You could be right. But consider these other possible contributing factors:

    When we are down by a lot, teams give up short passes by playing a softer defense (not necessarily a prevent, but they make you eat up clock with easy underneath completions). That helps QBR.

    When we are ahead, I think this is the problem: our running game is hurting. When ahead, you want to run the ball. Your pasing plays (the big ones) will come off of playaction. If your running game stalls, you are looking at totally ineffective playaction, taking your big passing plays away. Worse, if you are TRYING to run the ball a lot but failing you will be in a lot of third-and-long downs, which are really bad for QBs. Thus a lower QBR. At least when trailing, we are likely to throw on 1st and 2nd down, not always leaving Henne in third and long. If the running game were working well, Henne would have playaction AND shorter third downs (or fewer third downs!).

    Consider those too.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    So you're suggesting the throws INTs when we're up, because he's "shackled"?
     
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  29. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I saw this stuff do and did a post on it. I think that rates Henne as 1 of the top QBs in the league when tied or trailing.

    I've felt all along that he's a product of what Sparano and Henning want him to be. When we want him to protect the ball, IMO, it causes him to think too much to where it negatively affects his performance b/c I feel he's at his best when he can be more of an instinctive "let her fly" passer than a conservative thinker. I feel the conservative approach was important for his development towards becoming a smarter QB who better understands how to protect the ball, but it's time to take the training wheels off.

    Why cant we learn from what our eyes are telling us this season and bring in an OC who utilizes the good that we saw from Henning while improving the bad?

    It seems pretty obvious to me that the aggressiveness needs to be amped up early in the game (or when we're ahead) b/c our production has not been the greatest during these times. We also need to realize that he isn't very effective in converting quality drives into more TDs rather FGs. One of the few times we've been aggressive early on resulted in a 1st quarter TD vs Minne after the long pass to Marshall. The times we've actually turned the ball over early (or when we've had a lead) have been while we're in conservative mode, not assertive mode: Ricky & Ronnie fumbles, Hart fumble (not to mention all the turning the ball over on downs, which should be included into equation). There's no excuse for Marshall NOT having an extra 5 TDs from our redzone trips. Insult to injury, Henne is the 2nd rated QB in the redzone based on TD conversions per pass attempt (roughly 36% of his redzone passes go for TDs). IMO Henning does a great job of marching us down the field when we're tied or trailing though.


    Our coaches seem so friggin scared for no reason. They're like an anorexic woman who thinks she's too skinny even though she weighs 42 pounds.


    IMO, with our attacking style defense (and to maximize what Nolan brings to the table), we need to be a bit more aggressive early on with the goal being to build a larger lead quickly so that Wake and Co can be fully unleashed while opposing offenses are in more predictable passing situations.

    Our current philosophy is nice and all.... it's put us in position to win games.....it has won us games....... but at the same time we could've very well lost 3 of those wins, and might've won our 3 losses if we were more aggressive early on. My point is: If we've been more aggressive from game 1, I do NOT see how we could have a worse record than the 3-3 we have now, but I could easily see us at 4-2.

    Henning is placing too much friggin stress on this team by:
    1. making us be an overly conservative, ball-controlled offense early on.
    2. then having us do a complete 180 when we're trailing.
    This cant be easy for a team when having to make an extreme mental shift like this.
    I'd almost want to be losing if I played for him just so I'd have an opportunity to actually play some REAL football instead of the boring conservative bs.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  30. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Not what I was saying. Rather, that he may tend to play more poorly when we're leading because of a change in offensive philosophy towards a "whatever you do DOOOOONT THROW ANYTHING THAT MIGHT GET PICKED OFF!!" mentality. You could argue that that sort of approach should lead to no INTs, but I tend to think the opposite happens. Picture yourself on the tee box in a big golf tournament, you've got a two shot lead over your opponent on the last hole and your caddy says to you "whatever you do DONT shank it right into the woods, or pull it left into the water!!...here's your driver". Now, I'm no psychologist, but I know enough from playing sports my whole life that if you fear something, it will consume your thoughts and your thoughts often manifest themselves in your physical play. Ergo, "don't turn the ball over and punting is ok" turns into thoughts inside Henne's head along the lines of "yeah, Marshall is open on the deep in but it COULD be picked...opportunity lost...took too long on that decision....next read...woops, pash rush is here...crap". Furthermore, I think the entire team as a whole changes the way they play when they're told to "not lose". This team needs to develop an aggressive approach to not only the start of a game, but at then end of a game when they have a slim lead. Put the foot on the throat and choke them out.
     
  31. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I wonder if someone else mentioned this on the first page of the thread :shifty:
     
  32. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That doesn't make sense. Why would they call a deep in if they didn't want him to throw a deep in?

    I would tend to think that whatever discrepancy there is can be attributed to situation/circumstance.
     
  33. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Was using that as an example to make a point. If you don't get the point by now, sorry.
     
  34. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    sorry...didn't see it.
     
  35. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    It's alright, I wondered why no one else found it interesting and didn't want to bump the thread for my own post.:lol: I'm just glad that I'm not alone in having noticed that.
     
  36. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Regarding the Bengals game...

    The first half was more of what I have been saying as what I see as a problem specifically with us not using motion, formations, shifts, etc to clear Marshall. I also noticed almost all of our throws in the game (especially in the first half) were the types where we were running towards the sideline (out) or where our receivers shoulders were turned towards the QB (hooks, curls, screens) rather than upfield. I was wondering if any of you film hounds would be willing to break down the specific numbers on that. I'm going to say 90% of the time we are catching the ball with our shoulders facing the QB or out of bounds rather than upfield.

    Lastly, in the first series of the second half, we used Marshall in motion to enhance his route and diagnose the defense, to change his side of the formation, or used someone else to bump coverage off of Marshall or create another scheme change / responsibility change in the defense. It was some of what I hope to see more of. We we not overly productive in it, but the potential is there and the guys calling the game clearly saw the same thing - more of a specific emphasis on getting Marshall the ball (they commented on it). I still hope to see much more of this type of activity on our offense.
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fact of the matter is, we have 3 proven TD threats in Marshall, Brown and Ricky, and we can't get them in. We scored one yesterday, which was our 2nd all year with the tailbacks. Marshall has scored once.

    It's good to win the game but foolish not to see the huge weakness in our offense.
     
    DOLFANMIKE likes this.
  38. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Agree. The weakness IMO is the mentality. I hate saying this, but I have come to the conclusion that our offense is once again playing not to lose the game instead of playing to win the game. I thought for sure that after Wanny was run out of town, we'd be free of that garbage mentality forever. But, how many times do we have to see ultra conservative play calling and decision making on the field before we just call a spade a spade? How many times do we have to rip our collective hair out screaming "it's 3rd and F-ing 8!!!! Why are you: a) running the ball...or b) running a play action pass????".

    And yes, I know they've won some games this year, but you know what...we won games in the early 2000s too but we ALL knew that we'd never make a run at the SB with a "don't lose" mentality no matter how good our defense or running game was. I mean honestly, Jay Fiedler could do what Henne is doing right now. What was the big knock on Fiedler? He couldn't threaten the downfield zones enough. Why? We all assumed it was because he had the arm of a High School player. But maybe, just maybe we didn't assess that situation correctly. Maybe the reason was due to something that couldn't be measured like arm strength. Maybe it was because our players were taught to not do anything that can hurt us...take no risks...punting is ok. The result? No playoff success despite having the best running game and one of the best defenses in the league. History should have taught us our lesson there, yet here we are again, and despite having a QB with a rocket arm, and despite having a big play wide receiver, we are listening to the coaching staff preaching that the QB is there more to "not lose games" more than they are there to win games. Preaching that no matter what happens we've got to minimize mistakes, take care of the ball better, dont' do things that hurt ya, etc. etc. etc. I feel like I'm reading the same book all over again even though I know the outcome and didn't care for the ending the first time around. And yes those are are all valid concepts, but at the end of the day, you have to have athletes thinking about one thing and one thing only....beating the other team...not sticking around long enough to see the other team blink first and thus earn your victory the hard way. Nay, I say TAKE THE F-ING WIN IF YOU WANT IT!!! RIP IT FROM YOUR OPPONENT WITH NO MERCY!!! AND DO IT WITHOUT FEAR OF FAILURE FOR FEAR IS A CRIPPLING AGENT FOSTERED BY LOSERS!!!

    OK...there, got that off my chest...Go Miami!
     
  39. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Mike, I'm going to give it to you the way I see it. Obviously I cannot see where the safeties run during the play. I can only see where they start (some of the time) and where they finish. In the entire first series there was only one single safety package. The rest of the time they were in a 2 safety coverage. I took quick notes. Decipher some of it for yourself. :lol:

    Use the play by play for results:
    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20101...:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

    1. T formation run versus 2 safety

    2. 2 safety - Post at 26 depth, Flag at 18 depth and IN at 5 depth

    3. 2 safety - I formation run for 3

    4. 2 safety - I run for 3

    5. Man free - 4 wide hitch to Bess for 4
    On the outside = double go
    On the inside = double hitch

    6. 2 safety - I run for 5

    7. 2 safety - T formation ** Safeties at 12 yards
    Flag to Bess

    8. 2 safety - One back
    Bess motion outside/in with no defensive movement
    Marshall skinny post
    Bess Seam
    Wallace Go (knocked out of bounds)
    Brown flare
    Fasanso crosser to Marshall and Bess clear out side

    9. 2 safety - T formation for 1 yard

    10. 2 safety - one back, one TE
    Bess motion takes defender across formation
    Play action to one back
    Marshall deep, Brown under
    Cobbs open on the post corner
    Bess post @ endzone

    11. 2 safety - shotgun, one back
    Max versus three rushers
    Bess bracketed (it's obvious from corner/safety alignment
    Marshall OUT - safety moves on him
    Wallace GO (knocked out of bounds)

    12. Field Goal



    What I found interesting is the decision at the 21 yard line. It was THERE that we would make our stand and try to stick it in the endzone. It begins on first down at play number 9. Cobbs was behind his man on the opposite side of Bess and Marshall. Marshall was blanketed by two. On the next play the throw went to the right man. The safety made his move on Marshall's OUT. Wallace could not bring it down and it didn't matter anyway. These two plays told me that......

    A. We didn't trust ourselves to bang it in.

    B. We didn't want a crowd in the endzone while we attempted to pass.

    FIELD GOAL
     
    Two Tacos likes this.
  40. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    This little review gave me some curiosity at work. I thought to myself, "With all of this Bess crossing Marshall I have seen this year, that ain't the Z receiver." Well the next series I saw confirmed the fact that Marshall was playing the X. I'd love to go back and watch the prior games, I just don't have THAT MUCH time this morning. None-the-less, Marshall was playing the X receiver versus the Bungles.

    Let's pick up at the next series...... Again, follow the results here:
    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20101...:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

    1. Man Free with a weak rotation
    I formation - play action - max protection
    Hartline - Deep In
    Marshall - Fade (I hope you realize that I can't tell if it's a GO or a FADE)
    Fasano - Shallow IN

    2. 8 man box single safety
    Offset I - Fasano motion outside/in
    Power O - HEY! Jerry is back. I didn't even notice.

    3. Cover 2 - I formation - playaction
    Hartline - OUT
    Fasano - Flag
    Marshall - DEEP (can't see him)
    Williams - Hook left
    Polite - Hook right

    4. Four wide - Cover 3
    Inside - Double IN
    Outside - Double GO (I hope you realize I don't know if it's GO or FADE)
    Safety rotates to Marshall (I can see his shadow)

    5. One back - Cover 2 (tampa style with the linebacker drops)
    Bess motion outside/in
    Bess - seam
    Fasano - seam
    Hartline - DEEP (can't see him)
    Marshall - IN running free at 5 yards
    Williams - Flare

    6. Offset I - Cover 2
    DRAW - Interestingly the Cover 2 strong safety could be seen creeping to sniff this out at 5.

    7. Offset I - 2 TE - appears to be Cover 2 - it's not distinctive because of the bunch formation.

    TE's - FLAG
    Marshall - Post
    Williams - comeback at sticks
    Polite - Comeback at sticks

    8. Wildcat sweep - Free Safety was following the crosser (Williams) and he made the tackle for no gain from a depth of 10 yards. Talk about needing a passing play out of the wildcat.......

    9. Split back shotgun - zone blitz - 7 on the rush
    Hartline - IN
    Marshall - Deep (can't be seen)
    Bess - Comeback at 7 probably due to blitz on his side

    10. One back shotgun - cover 2
    Bess (z)
    Fasano (TE)
    Hartline (slot)
    Marshall (X)

    ALL GO

    Brown - flare


    FIELD GOAL
     

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