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Vernon Carey Will Be Starting RT

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by alen1, Apr 22, 2008.

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  1. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Following the signing of Jake Long, Vernon Carey will be the Dolphins' starting right tackle in 2008.
    Carey should like this. Right tackle is Carey's best position and he's in a contract year. Miami may also explore signing him long-term during the season. The 'Fins line looks strong with Samson Satele at center, Justin Smiley at right guard, and the tackles in place. The only "hole" is at left guard.

    http://rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

    Well that squashes the Guard talk...
     
  2. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    I think mormino willbe fine to start at LG for us. Our staff trusted him to be a starter last season as a rookie, and had he not gotten injured he would have been. So hopefully with another year under his belt he'll be even more able to hold it down this year. He certainly will have some great talent around him (wow.. i can't believe still that i'm able to say that..)
     
  3. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I wonder what the selection of Long does to Carey's future in Miami. I find it tough to believe that Miami is going to pay Carey enough to keep him happy, you don't pay through the nose to keep your RT. If some team feels that Carey is going to be their LT of the future and they pay him accordingly, will we match it or let him go? Do we stick the tag on him? What if we do and noone offers him a contract? We would then have to pay him a large salary in relation to his position.
     
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  4. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    i certainly wouldn't mind shelling out the cash to have two pro bowl tackles :) but i know what you mean. hopefully we find a way to keep him here for a long time
     
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  5. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Oh, I agree. I just don't know if the FO feels the same way.
     
  6. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    considering where we're coming from this is a great problem to have. i hope we manage to get a deal worked with carey this season that keeps everyone happy. on the other side i'm not sure about long being over there with essentially another rookie in mormino, maybe we sign someone?? thoughts?
     
  7. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I agree with you. As for the Mormino comment, I have the same question lol.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2008
  8. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    true
    the phins are going to have a great oline
     
  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    IF Jake pans out and we can find another guy.:up:
     
  10. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    We don't need to have a superstar at every position, we just need 5 guys who work well together.

    Long
    Mormino
    Satele
    Smiley
    Carey

    That has the ability to be a great OL, but they need to play well together and play up to their potential.
     
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  11. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yeah I agree with you. When I said he pans out, I didn't intend him to be an all pro like Ogden every year. I was stating that if hes not a complete bust and has trouble with his assignments but the likely hood of that is very slim. Again, you never know.
     
  12. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I think Mormino will be in the mix, we more than likely will draft another OL at some point too.

    Welcome to ThePhins, glad to have you. :hi5:
     
  13. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Keep in mind that Drew pretty much had a starting spot locked up until he was injured. After a year of training, learning and lifting, he should be much stronger and better prepared than he was last year. :)
     
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  14. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Honestly, I completely forgot about that lol. Thanks for that reminder.
     
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  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Actually, before he got injured he was summarily demoted to second unit for showing a lack of discipline (taking lots of bad pre-snap penalties during training camp). I believe it was Liwenski who replaced him (correct me if I'm wrong)... and several weeks later Drew Mormino got injured.
     
  16. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Come on guys; we just spent 57.5 Mil on making this o-line better and we are then going to turn around and let the other book end go one year later. You've got to be kidding me, right? There is no way they let Vernon Carey hit the market next year if this o-line jells like we all hope it does. If we run behind this o-line like I think we can we will be as dominate as the 70's Dolphins were in the run game. :yes::up:
     
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  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'm also concerned with Carey. First of all, he may not be pleased about moving back to right tackle, knowing he will be expected to sign his next contract with us for 'right tackle money' instead of much more 'left tackle money'.

    The options are clear: we either overpay Vernon when we resign him, let him go, or trade him early in the season (a stupid idea, in my opinion, but, nonetheless it is an option so it bears mentioning).

    I think the best thing we could do is sign him to an extension around the beginning of the season. By season's end, he'll be sniffing Left Tackle dollars on the open market. We'll still have to pay him a bunch... but after Sparano and Ireland have an entire training camp to see him, they'll probably decide he's worth the money to lock up in a multi-year extension.

    Also, right tackles are becoming regarded as more important than they used to be, which is to say, still significantly less important than a left tackle, but more important than right tackles used to be considered.

    Bpk
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2008
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  18. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    One final thought on the O-line,

    I have a feeling the current regime would consider selecting a center late in this draft (6th round, perhaps) and trying to move Samson Satele to Left Guard. It would make sense, as he pulls extremely well, would probably make a good guard, and because centers are usually the least talented player on the line, not one of the most. It would improve the entire line, IF that rookie center were at least okay. Also, Samson (as a 2nd rounder) is not a cheap center, but WOULD be a great value at guard, if he proved to be a good guard (which I think he would).

    Of course, the left side would be inexperienced, BUT Samson could help Jake AND the new center with the calls, since he played center last year.

    Alternately, we use a second round pick on a guard (deep draft class).

    With all the holes on this team, I'd rather plug Samson at LG and use a 6th to get a center than use a 2nd to get a good enough guard.

    Just my hope and theory.

    Bpk
     
  19. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hmm, I may be mistaken, but I believe Satele was primarly a LG in college. He only moved to C his senior year. 2003 he started at LT for one game, then LG for the remaining 13. 2004 he started at LG for 10, C for 3. 2005 all LG. 2006 C.

    Primarly 3 seasons at LG, one at C. Very versatile kid. Im sure Sparano et. al are salivating the pieces we have. I wouldn't cry if we get decent play out of someone else and put Satele at LG. Imagine running to the left side. It's our own ladainian tomlinson! J/k, but I do believe LT runs to the left side ... a lot!

    Oh, and ... Drew Mormino was a center in college as well.
     
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  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    yeah, Samson is always looking for the next guy to block. he and Jake Long would be an incredible leftside.

    But, instead of him pulling both ways as a center, he'd pull only one way, generally, if he shifted to LG.

    That said, in Cam Cameron's csystem, which was more creative and wide open than what it sounds like we'll be doing under Parcells/Sparano/Henning, I think the center would pull more often than in a more conservative system. What I'm saying is, I don;t think our center would pull as much this year as last year anyways... which is maybe ANOTHER reason to move him to guard.

    Bpk
     
  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Mormino seemed to be a little slow on the uptake last training camp.. making errors more than Samson. I don;t want my center having less mental acumen than the other guys on the line. He ought to be the smartest, sharpest one, since he has to recognise and call out the blitz pick ups etc.

    IF (biiig IF) Mormino were decent at that, I'd be happy putting him at center. Otherwise, he makes a nice 2nd string Guard.

    heck, no matter WHO our starting 5 are, we're guaranteed to see some second stringers, as O-linemen always get nicked up for several games here and there.

    Bpk
     
  22. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Watched those Jets highlights... WOW Samson has wheels. He gets a little lost in space occasionally, trying to get his hands on defenders but having trouble taking angles that engage them... you just get the sense he's feeling around in the dark a bit trying to get his paws on SOMEONE and not quite locking on. Of course, the scouting reports on Samson out of Hawaii were that he was a consummate pass blocker whose run blocking needed work. That's the result of playing in a June Jones pass-happy offense. I f think he'll learn to make his run blocking even BETTER (and it was decent this year) with Jake Long around to watch.

    Thanks for the great highlights, AQUA!

    Bpk.
     
  23. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Here's another option: Since this year's tackle class is one of the deepest in recent years, why not draft a right tackle and move Carey to LG? It would make a lot of sense: You instantly filled the remaining LG hole with a guy that has all the tools to eventually become a Pro Bowl LG (as much as I like Carey at RT, I think he's made for the LG spot), you solidify the left side for years to come (if you are willing to shell out big bucks for a pretty darn good LG that is) and you provide Long with veteran help during his growing pains which will only be benefitial for his devlopment - and for the development of John Beck or whoever lines up behind the center.

    If you want Jake to succeed, you can't leave him on an island. He's just not that kind of tackle. The Jets had to learn the hard way with Ferguson (not an island tackle either ... albeit for different reasons) and I'd appreciate it if we didn't make the same mistake of pairing Jake up with a inexperienced guard. Look how much Thomas profited from Steinbach in Cleveland. That's why I have strong reservations against Drew Mormino at left guard. He might end up surprising the hell out of me, but I wouldn't be comfortable with two de facto rookies at my young QBs blindside. If it doesn't work, you just ruined three players' development.

    Carey's a natural fit at LG and he'd provide Jake with the kind of pass protection help he will need during his rookie season. There's a reason guys like Eric Steinbach or Alan Faneca are in high demand. It's way easier to find a solid right tackle in the draft than to find a good left guard. Plus, the draft is loaded with RT talent ... with LG talent ... not so much.

    Actually, Vernon Carey reminds me a lot of Branden Albert. There's another guy who will probably get drafted as a tackle and will do a good job at that position. But he'll never be able to really shine there. I thought of Carey as a perfect LG when he came out of college and I'm still thinking the same way. He's a prototypical LG.
     
  24. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I agree that Mormino at LG is setting Jake Long up to fail. Mormino showed that he had mental lapses.. that means Long will be trying to deal with better speed/edge rushers in the NFL (which will be his biggest hurdle) AND worrying about Mormino screwing up INSIDE. Bad idea.

    Mormino would have to really impress in Training Camp for me to be comfortable with that idea.

    Also, I know the draft is deep with OTs, but doesn't it have a fair amount of OGs too?

    I am not sure Vernon is an 'ideal' Left Guard.. either in general, or for this system. Do we want large guards? I would need to know more about Smiley's stats (weight... good feet? more a mobile, pulling guard, or stone footed in-line drive blocking mauler?) to get an idea of what this regime likes at guard.

    Usually a Left Tackle is too massive a mountain to pull effectively, AND could be too tall for Beck to properly see over (you don't want your passing lanes blotted out, along with the sun, but a super tall LG). How tall is Carey anyways?

    I FULLY agree that a veteran Left Guard would have been a perfect pairing with Jake. At this point, though, if I have to choose between Mormino, Satele, or a re-tread below-average veteran acquired off waivers... I want Satele next to Jake.


    Or we better draft an OG... (or maybe we draft a convertible OT and stick him at LG... but seems like a recipe for disaster).

    Bpk
     
  25. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    It has its share of qualitiy guards but I see only a few I would be comfortable with handing the LG spot and having them start right away next to another rookie. Many are great fits at right guard, but we do already have Smiley there and Smiley's strictly a RG. Of course you could argue that drafting a guard was the way to go but I feel that given the circumstances (best tackle class in years, Carey's talent, rookie at LT, hole at LG) it would be wiser to go for another tackle.



    Yes. We want large and heavy guards for the kind of power running game Hennig is likely to install. Carey fits the bill at 6'5 and around 330 lb and he's the kind of mauler this FO likes. So does Smiley who's actually a tad bit short in regard to the ideal measures this FO looks for. Carey's a great run blocker (a left side with him and Long would be a scary sight to behold when Ronnie's got the ball) and solid in pass protection and most comfortable when blocking straight man to man. He's a prototypical guard for this system. He's a great fit at RT as well, no question, but like I said, it's easier to find a right tackle to fit that bill than to find a LG.

    As for Satele moving to LG, I could live with that as well. I actually think he'd make a Pro Bowl LG too. A terrific pulling guard waiting to happen.

    You're making a very good point with Beck's height, by the way. That's going to be a concern in this system because Parcells puts so much value on size. It's also the reason why they hired a quarterbacks coach early in the process and had him work with Beck's delivery right away. They are looking to have him release the ball several inches higher. Don't know how he's progressing with this, of course, but he's got to adjust his delivery when he wants to start in this system. Tony Romo had exactly the same kind of problem when he came to Dallas and Lee basically taught him a whole new delivery. Let's hope that he can work his magic again with Beck.
     
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  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well, if we want maulers and size at guard, we don't need a pulling guard like Satele there... unfortunately. :P

    re: beck/Romo... yeah, I read an article about how Lee wroked with Romo to change his release.. and its obviously worked. let's hope Lee helps make Beck acceptable to parcells and Ireland. I'm sure Sparano'd be happy wih anyone who can take a snap, rotate 90 degrees and place the ball in the gut of a runningback.

    Bpk
     
  27. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Cynical people would say that Beck showed more skills in taking a snap, rotating 360 degrees and placing the ball on the ground, but thank God I'm no cynical peson :wink2:
     
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  28. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

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    I think one team will definitely see Carey as a left tackle and offer him more money than we can at some point. I don't think you explore franchising a right tackle so I would pray he is happy enough here to sign a new deal. I don't see the point of investing in the O-line to the point of spending a #1 overall pick on a tackle to then turn around and let your best lineman leave.
     
  29. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Yeah well yes it does squash the guard talk unless something changes between now and September.... Seriously, what else are the going to do at this point...install Wilson as the RT ?? If they draft another couple of OL, which is likely, bring in some UDFA OL, perhaps even pick up a RT vet later in the year in FA....things could change...

    I also disagree with this article in that I don't think Carey will be very happy at RT, since this is a contract year for him and LTs make boatloads more money than RTs do in FA...
     
  30. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    I'm not so sure. Carey always struck me as the kind of guy who will play LT if you ask him to but is actually much more comfortable and at ease with a position that doesn't come with as much responsibility and pressure. I might be mistaken, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him agreeing to a contract extension with us that pays him like a very good RT. He probably would get a boatload of LT money elsewhere but he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who is going to sign a longterm deal for a position he isn't really fond of playing.
     
  31. Sam

    Sam Member

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    A while back, there was article where Carey seemed to indicate that he wouldn't mind a shift back to the right side (unfortunately, I don't have a link).

    And as for his next contract, keep in mind, unless something changes, he's the backup LT in case Long gets hurt...I'm sure that'll be factored into it.
     
  32. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    i have reservations about a long/mormino left side also and figured we'd maybe pick up a roster cut,,,, but, i didn't really consider carey over there and that might work if vernon is willing. gotta say i love carey at rt though. this will be interesting to see what happens. our line and team got better with jake long IMO and look forward to seeing us hammer the ball. vendigo i think i read the carey to lft guard in your post, thanks, and that jets highlight, man ronnie was absolutely killing them, killing them! man i hope he can get back to that form by nov. or so
     
  33. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Whether we move Carey to RT, Satele to LG, or even VC to LG, we still need to draft another rookie for this line. What worries me about that is what has already been stated in this thread, I don't like the idea of two rookies on the left side. Jake's development would be better accomplished with Satele or Carey over there rather than another rookie next to Jake.

    There is also the thought though that next year is a rebuilding year anyway, and I don't expect to win more than 5 games, so maybe this is the right time to go ahead and draft another mauler to put next to Jake and let the two of them learn together, next to each other. Then by 2009 we have a very young and BIG bunch of maulers on OL that have a year together and should be dominating in 2009.

    I am torn which way would be best for us. What worries me about the 2nd scenario is Beck's development is held back another year, and maybe we never really get to see what Beck can become for us.
     
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  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I 100% remember this. The speculation was that he wouldn't want to be moved back, because when Cam moved him to LT, his statement was 'as long as I am not moved again." Well big bad bill and his posse comes into town, so you have to toe the company line. So he said, I'm fine wherever they play me.
     
  35. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    You're right about him being more comfortable at RT as a player, I meant it from the contract view...he'd rather be our LT come later this year. sorry...
     
  36. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I think John Greco, Toledo, would be a nice pickup for our LG position...if he is around in the 4th round.
     
  37. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Listened to Carey's interview with Rose on WQAM, he said he's excited to go back to RT, but when Joe mentioned about going to guard, it was more like...whatever the team wants (Easy to tell that he'd really rather not).
     

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