For fun and as a comparison, I checked the NFL.com Return stats for Ted Ginn and Nolan Carroll as both are now completely healthy and are each team's Kick Off Returners: Ted Ginn: #35 in the NFL with 19 returns for 461 yds for a 24.3 avg with a long of 61 yds and 12 returns for over 20 yds and 2 returns over 40 yds Nolan Carroll: #42 in the NFL with 14 returns for 335 yds for a 23.9 avg with a long of 38 yds with 10 returns over 20 yds and no returns over 40 yds. Well, it seems to me that Ted Ginn is more explosive as witnessed by his 12 over 20 and 2 over 40 compared to Nolan Carroll's 10 over 20 and none over 40. But Carroll is also 5 returns short of Ginns total chances, if his average holds over those 5 additional returns, Carroll would have 455 yds, or more Return yardage than Ginn. Or add in Pat Cobbs 13 Returns for 278 yds, quitely the ST unit is starting to pile up some serious Return yardages. Ginn's "edge" would be 13 punts for 112 yds, but Bess has 11 Returns for 119 yds. So at the end of the day, as much as I thought we would miss Ted Ginn's All Purpose Yards, the plain fact is, Nolan Carroll and Devone Bess have been as good as Ted Ginn in the Return phase of the game, as Ginn's 70 yds receiving is negligible. Turns out, the 2010 Dolphins do not miss Ted Ginn's production, however that does not preclude Ginn having a return for a TD, but at the moment, he is not missed at all.
I never liked Ginn on Punt returns, he was always trying to get to the edge of the coverage and guys are just too fast in the pro's to do that. However, Ginn's stats may not show much difference this year, I would love to have him returning kicks for us right now. Carrol is fast, I heard 4.3 kicked around once, but Ginn is faster. Honestly, as much as I hated watching that guy take a dive and run out of bounds after a catch, I really wish he was still here. We are missing his deep threat speed from the passing game, even as just a decoy.
I disagree. Those 40+ yard returns often lead to points. And a 60 yard should be points every time. I think he has a couple more 40+ before the season is over, remember he was injured early on this year.
I happened to watch that game, it was a MNF tilt and IIRC they did not score points on that drive. What Carroll offers is positive yards on each and every return, he will make it to the 25 yd line, which was something Ginn was hit or miss on so it boils down to whether you want the Big Play potential every now and then, or the Consistent, out to the 25-35 yd line return after return? These are not hard fast "this guy is better than that guy" what it does show me is both teams probably got exactly what they thought they were getting, what really makes this deal is Ginn's utter lack of production as a WR. Head to head, Ginn is offering nothing as a Wr, Carroll is not offering anything as a corner back these two are Specialists only imo.
I don't think I'd right Nolan off as a corner quite so fast. He is raw at the position. Give him some time to develop and let him return kicks in the meantime. Not saying he is starter material, just saying we don't really know what we have yet.
Wait a minute...Padre aren't you the one who ridicules the "statmonkeys," for all of their statmonkery? As others have said, Ginn's longer returns lead to not only points, but often times lead to flipping the field position and thus, perhaps getting points on the NEXT posession instead. Besides, Ginn is one person doing multiple jobs versus Miami using a multitude of people (including ones you failed to add in). Having said all of that, I don't really miss Ted Ginn any. Although, I noticed that he looks physically bigger in San Fran. As does Camarillo in Minnesota and Chambers did in San Diego. Maybe it is just me, but our wideouts always look thicker once they leave southbeach. Am I the only one witnessing this phenomenon?
A fair charge about Stat Monkery, however in this case, it is just a head to head comparison Player Y has produced this Player Z has produced that, to devolve into "kick returns that lead to points" is a bridge to far for me as the matrix of "What if" factors beyond their control is huge. Tbh, I was surprised that Carroll has accounted for as many Return Yds as he has because he does it so quietly. 4 returns, 105 yds, is typical for Carroll.
That is true, my only point is..at this moment..he is a Returner. The 49ers could have some injuries at Wr and Ginn's receiving yards can pick up dramatically.
I am just busting balls. Carroll is fine for me, in that he doesn't make me want to puke in my own butt like Jeff Ogden used to. No, I do not mean Jeff Ogden puked in my butt...
455 < 461.... Not sure why you think Caroll would have more yards??? That being said, interesting analysis - it's felt like we miss Ginn on kickoffs... but even his return average last year was 24.9 yards... Take away his 101 yard kick return (I know, not fair to do) and his average was only 23.4. I think the Jets game gives us all short memories and we only remember that game. :-)
Just rough math, added quickly in my head, not really meant to be THAT accurate. And well, Ginn isn't as far ahead of Carroll as I had thought he would be, 5 yds? Not too shabby, and Carroll's style, straight ahead full speed will lead to a TD this yr imho. If he is not knocked out first, the term "elusive" should not be used in the same sentence as Nolan Carroll's return style.
I would honestly rather have Nolan Carroll. MUCH more consistent. The yards are what they are. Consistently getting the ball out further also leads to points, just as a long return does. The fact that we can move from Ted Ginn who is supposed to be this supreme kick returner, to a rookie who had never even done it before, and average basically the same yards per return...shows how supremely overrated Ted Ginn is as a kick return. It's actually alarming that it only took 19 kick returns for his averages to come back down to earth considering he started off almost immediately in his second game of the year with those big returns. Think of it this way. He has a big day against the Eagles (who have poor STs) with a 44 yard return to start out the game and a 61 yard return later, and from then on he's gone four games averaging 20.5 yards on 11 returns. That's the Ted Ginn experience. He has TWO good kick returns while he was here...and a whole slew of poor ones. I've been hearing "I expect him to have a few more good returns" ever since that game he had against the Eagles. Four games and 11 returns and his average is about the same as Nolan Carroll's. We're waiting Teddy Ball Game.
You said that much better than I did.. And DBess is back to his 08 punt return form, over 10 ypa, that is top notch work on his part.
Funny thing is Jeff Ogden never returned a single kickoff here in 2000 and 2001. He was the PR. Autrey Denson and Brock Marion handled the KR duties then Chambers mostly in 2001.
The point being, even Ginn the Returner, the thing he was supposed to be good at, it turns out his production is not missed...at all.
Don't count me in the club of thinking we would miss a thing. I was firmly on record as starting we wouldn't miss him one bit. As far as I can tell, we haven't.
