Our RB and WR and QB upgrade choice for this offseason and why them ?

Yeah in his 1st starting year that running game has been stellar and nothing like rearranging the OLine for continuity. Seriously you were lap dogging on Thigpen 2 weeks ago. Like many on here unless someone puts up Marinoesq numbers immediately they'll never be happy.

 

It doesn't matter how much potential the QB has, you don't build your team around a QB when your porous line is giving up 40+ sacks a season.

What you're speaking of is the philosophy that the following teams practiced:

1. Cleveland: #1 pick Tim Couch sacked a league high 56 sacks during rookie year.

2. Cincy: #3 pick Akili Smith played behind a line that allowed 49 & 53 sacks during his 1st 2 seasons.

3. Houston: #1 pick David Carr sacked league high 76 times as a rookie.

4. SanFran: #1 pick Alex Smith. 49ers allowed 2nd most sacks (52) prior to drafting him.

5. Oak: #1 pick, Jamarcus Russell. Raiders allowed a league high 72 sacks prior to drafting him.

6. Detroit: #1 pick Matt Stafford. Lions allowed 2nd most sacks (52) prior to drafting him.

7. Cincy: #6 David Klingler played behind Oline that allowed 45 & 53 sacks his 1st 2 seasons.

8. Seattle: #2 pick, Rick Mirer. Seattle ranked last in sacks allowed (67) when drafting him.

9. Detroit: #7 pick, Andre Ware. Lions ranked 2nd to last in sacks allowed (57) when drafting him.

10. Cincy: #1 pic, Carson Palmer. Bengals allowed 3rd most sacks (52) in 08 and Carson was destroyed by injury. Not been the same since.

11. SD: #2 pick, Ryan Leaf. Chargers allowed 51 sacks when drafting him.



How did that work out for these teams and QBs?

No protection=destroyed QB

 

which is ALL THE REASON why you make sure you have a proper line to protect him to ensure he CAN develop. The protection comes first. W/O protection a young QB is reduced to nothing. He's an injury and destroyed career waiting to happen.

If you could buy a million dollar home, would you stock it full of neat stuff w/o having an alarm system protecting it?

 

no, they didn't..... which is a contributing cause to them busting. They were all SACKED TO DEATH. They never had a chance to develop b/c they were constantly running for their lives.

 

Next season we will probably have a whole new offensive line (again), and we can wait another season for them to get any type of chemistry with each other. Vernon Carey will probably still be around (joy). Getting rid of Donald Thomas was obviously a big mistake. They said his weakness was pass protection. Doesn't matter that he was a mauler in the run game, which was supposed to be our bread and butter. These coaches are "experts", though. I'm just Ray Finkle.

 

Complete joke of a post.

At least most people here have chosen a side and given arguments as to what they feel is causing the offense to struggle whether it be Henne holding back the offense or Henning holding the offense and Henne back.

You do neither.
Just a blanket statement including everyone.
Weak post!
Weaker than our offensive rating this year in fact!

 

He makes some good points. I don't agree with all of them but he is allowed to voice his opinion. I used to defend Henne all the time but he has shown barely any improvement from this year to last. Has he not? He continues to stare down receivers and force the ball into double coverage. What has he done to improve his game? Can anyone tell me? Seems to me that he plays scared, kind of like Dan "field goals are ok" Henning. He never tucks the ball and runs when pressure comes and a lane opens. Always throws the ball away when a play breaks down, where other QB's can improvise and keep a play alive. I don't know how much of it comes down to coaching, but I don't believe that he is being coached well at all. A lot of the blame has to fall on the coaches because I believe that Henne has the tools to succeed. He just needs to actually fix what is wrong with his game.

 

Remember those impatient fans I was talking about.

He uses the magic eight ball/ flavor of the week method to form his opinions.

Great system.

 

I don't disagree with that but the most important thing is getting the guy you want at QB. If Henne is the one they wanted then picking Jake at number one was a great move. If they were just rolling the dice and hoping the right QB would fall to them later then that's a recipe for disaster. But if Henne turns out as good as we hope he does the picks will look great. That's what I was trying to say earlier. If you think you can get your QB in the second round great. But when you start to rebuild I think getting yourself a QB is THE top priority. But I think trying to get a franchise QB in the 2nd/3rd round is a bigger gamble than trying to get a good tackle there. It's just a harder position to learn and play. But hopefully the gamble will have paid off for us. What I saw in Henne in the Titans game gave me a lot more optimism for him in the future. He acted like he wanted to make plays, not game manage.

 

Donald Thomas was fat, lazy and slow. The only good thing we ever heard about him is that he played "heavy".....

I agree though they changed the philosophy and have put Henne in a zero chance to succeed situation. Our identity was run first /play action now they have decided to sling it always and run it never. Kiss of death with a young QB.

 

We didn't get Ryan, nor did we get Flacco. Maybe we should have but we didn't and thats the bottom line. I remember there was quite a few on this site that were wanting Chris Long at the time and we didn't get him either. Maybe Jake Long wasn't who we needed to draft but we did and now he is a Miami Dolphin and a Pro Bowl caliber LT.
You know we don't need to give up on Henne we just need to draft another good QB to give him competition and let the best man earn the job. One way or another we are going to need another QB because Pennington is probably done and Thigpen may not be around long.

 

Don't need a QB

RB we do need a new stud

WR we are fine

Big need? A new OC

 

If we had a line already set in place to protect whatever QB we drafted in 08, I bet we would've heard Ryan's name called. But we didn't have an established line..... far from it actually. Detroit prioritized QB ahead of Oline with their #1 pick and look what's happening to him. They're ruining the kid. The Rams had ranked roughly dead last in the NFL in sacks allowed since 2002, but then spent some draft picks and money on improving their line before picking Bradford. Now they're 12th in sacks allowed.

The Falcons allowed the 5th fewest sacks in Ryan's rookie year..... Jets allowed 10th fewest sacks in Sanchez's. Bucs were 13th fewest in Freeman's. Ravens were 18th in Flacco's. None of these teams had horrendous protection. Adding Long helped drop us from 23rd to 10th (not forgetting we were 2nd to last in 2004).

 

Its completely relevant.

 

AS lt would say,son you got do better than this.
Do want me to make a list of left tackles that didn't make it in the first round?Please.
Bad qbs make the line worse than it is because they hold the ball to long.
Does peyton manning or tom brady have a hall of fame left tackle playing for them?They are the franchise and know where to go with the ball before it is even snapped.
The steelers and the packers don't have great lines and last time I checked their qbs are doing pretty well.
What teams are always in playoffs in the afc.Steelers,Colts,Pats,Chargers,what do they have in common?Is it great left tackles or great qbs?And by the way 3 of the 4 are first round picks.

 

I will never understand why people use Joe Flacco when arguing who we could've had over Chad Henne.

Joe Flacco is pretty much a body double of Chad Henne.

The only differences are:

1) One plays on a far superior team. About as complete a team as you can have these days in the NFL.
2) One was drafted 32 spots ahead of the other, where the team traded up to get him.

Face it! Joe Flacco 2008 = Joe Flacco 2010. So anyone complaining about the lack of progress they see in Chad Henne, should Never, and I mean NEVER, use Joe Flacco in comparison.

It really is a shame though. Because Baltimore has a stacked team both offensively and defensively, they win games, and because of that the fan base loves and appreciates Flacco. Those fans, coaches, and front office live and die by their young QB. They've allowed him to develop and make mistakes; have horrible games without threatening to pull him. And what do we have here. A mediocre team, placed in the toughest division in the NFL, for the 2nd straight year facing one of the toughest schedules in the NFL. As a result; a large portion of the fanbase has no patience with their young QB and it seems to have trickled up to the Front Office and Coaching staff who haven't had patience or a lick of faith in Henne since they drafted him.

 

Cmon now.... you're making yourself look foolish. At least try to comprehend a post before you inaccurately respond to it. My post wasn't about high first round QB busts; it's about high 1st round QB busts who were drafted by teams with poor protection. The emphasis of my post was that teams destroy QBs by drafting them high and throwing them behind a poorly protecting line. THAT'S THE POINT, which is apparently above your intelligence level.

A left tackle doesn't need anyone else to allow him to block his man. A QB DOES need someone else's help to throw it. A QB needs protection, which starts with a LT, hence teams prioritizing them. You don't have to have a "hall of fame" LT, but you have to have good protection (which the QBs of the teams you mentioned have had for the most part).... and if you have poor protection as a unit, then you don't really have a choice to nitpick how you improve it; you improve it the best way possible, and with Miami that was taking the best LT the draft has seen in years. I can't believe you have the gall to debate this.

By the way: Tom Brady wasn't a 1st round pick.

Seriously?! Is your logic that backwards?! So what you're saying is our Oline (or any of the team's Olines I mentioned) wasn't actually "bad"; it was the QBs holding the ball too long that made them "look bad"? RIGHHHHHT. And what about their Olines protection before the QBs were drafted? I guess the protection sucked the year prior "in anticipation" of the new QB being drafted. SUUUUURE.
Let me know when this sinks in: A bad Oline will make the QB look worse b/c he'll spend more time running for his life or on IR than he will actually throwing it..... which in turn can also make him hold onto the ball longer when he doesn't have a good view of the field or adequate passing lanes.

 

Buddy..... all you're doing is arguing with history. Just start peein in the wind will ya. If you want to argue my post, then show me enough examples of high 1st round QBs who have succeeded with teams that previously allowed 40+ sacks. I gave you 11 examples in support of my argument. How many can you provide against it? Tic tock.

 

We`ve had our differences in the past, Stitches, but I completely agree with you here.

 

Is there a way to physically light fire to a thread started on an internet forum?

 

What do they have in common? ALL of them have had a ProBowl left tackle as well as good pass protection when they were drafted or during their rookie season..... or prioritized trying to make sure they stayed protected throughout their career.

By the way: Tom Brady wasn't a 1st round pick..... although he did have a good overall line in place when he began playing that was ranked 10th in sacks allowed. Matt Light is a PRO-BOWL LEFT TACKLE who was drafted the year BEFORE Brady took over. Logan Mankins: PRO-BOWL LEFT GUARD. Dan Koppen: PRO-BOWL CENTER. Damien Woody: PRO-BOWL CENTER during Brady's 2002 year. Apparently NE didn't want to make sure Brady was protected.

-The Chargers' Oline allowed the 4th fewest sacks in the NFL during Rivers's rookie season.... then drafted PRO-BOWL LEFT TACKLE, Marcus McNeill, to ensure he stayed protected. Kris Dielman: PRO-BOWL LEFT GUARD. Nick Hardwick: PRO-BOWL CENTER.

-Indy drafted 1st round PRO-BOWL LT, Tarik Glenn, the year BEFORE drafting Peyton. The Colt's Oline allowed the 2nd fewest sacks in the NFL during Peyton's rookie year. Jeff Saturday: PRO-BOWL CENTER.

-The Steelers had Marvel Smith, who was a PRO-BOWL LT during Ben's rookie year. Oh, they had an ALL-DECADE left guard also helping Ben's blind side. Ever heard of Alan Faneca? How about Jeff Harting, PRO-BOWL CENTER.

-The Packers gave up THE FEWEST SACKS in the NFL the year before drafting Aaron Rodgers in the 1st round. They also had a PRO-BOWL LEFT TACKLE, Chad Clifton, before Rodgers was drafted. Mike Wahle, PRO-BOWL LEFT GUARD. Marco Rivera, PRO-BOWL RIGHT GUARD.

YOU'RE 0 for 5....... ANYTHING ELSE? You've just been taken to the shed, son!

PS: Would you like to do the math and add up all the Pro-Bowl linemen? Cmon, just for fun.



PS: next time--- you might wanna provide examples for your own argument instead.

 

Does it have to be the thread? Can't it be a few of the members instead?

 

I am too close to getting banned for a month to agree with this. Point of reference: They're the reason why.

 

Tap tap tap...... you still there Pumpdog? Are you pumping Google and Wikipedia for answers? Are you on dial-up?

 

TP....are you concerned with our oline for next year, I mean the lack of athleticism along that interior is very below average it seems and wtf are we gonna do at running back....it looks as though the whole damn unit is gonna have to be replaced.

Must..secure..Mark...Ingram..at..all..costs..

 

The Steelers are all about their D and the Pack are overacheiving.

As for the common thread of your teams listed all have management/programs that have been in place long term. In other words stability and a definitive vision of what they wanted the teams to be. Manning & Rivers were initially on bad teams that took a few years to turn around. Brady & Rothlesberger walked into pretty sweet spots. Henne walked into another restructuring.

 

Spitballing here: If we can afford it, I'm hoping that we add a few key free agents at WR, TE, LG, and/or RB so we can focus on addressing the Oline early in the draft. My biggest concern is probably finding a premium #2 WR (Mike Sims-Walker) who can stretch the field and help open the ground game. Carey's pass pro is increasingly worrying me too.

I like Ingram a lot, but I think I'd probably prefer to trade back our 1st and grab DeMarcus Love to replace le 'Royale with Cheese' at RT.... or at least start out at LG and move him to RT when needed. I wonder if we could get a 3rd for Mr. Cheeseburger.

IMO, our line could be improved overnight by just being healthy and adding Mankins or Carl Nicks at LG. Long-Nicks-Berger-Jerry-Carey would be more than adequate for my taste..... although I'd prefer to see: Long-Mankins/Nicks-Berger-Jerry-Love.

My dream offense would be to steal Vernon Davis to play with baby brother..... to go along with Sims Walker <and Mankins or Nicks if we can afford either of them> so that we could go Oline and/or RB with our 1st 2 picks.

Marshall------------ Davis--Long-Mankins-Berger-Jerry-Love-----Bess----------------Sims Walker
----------------------------------with DeMarco Murray in the 2nd round

or:
Marshall------------ Davis--Long-Marcus Cannon(TCU monster)-Berger-Jerry-Love-----Bess----------------Sims Walker....... (with Hart as the #4)
-------------------------------and pray to land Kendall Hunter in the 3rd. *****or possibly substitute Stefen Wisniewski for Cannon*****



Of course, if we couldn't nab a TE or WR in FA worth a damn, then that would change my draft. Then I'd prioritize signing Mankins or Nicks and a reliable RB.... and look for TE & WR within the 1st 3 rounds. 1st round: RT- Demarcus Love. 2nd: TE- DJ Williams. 3rd: Jernel Jernigan at WR... and I'd even grab Greg Little in the 4th b/c there's no way I could pass up on a potential Hakeem Nicks-Anquan Boldin type cross.

 

I'm not up on College. I'll take your word for it.

 

This thread has things backwards, our OLine is the major, major problem on offense. We can't run the ball worth a crap, we have two Rbs that should be able to give us big games but we can't even get the run started in games. The oline needs to be the major focus in the draft IMO. RB would be nice too.

I think our WR corps are fine, not great but we can win with them its hard to judge them considering we can't run to open things up at all. We could use some speed at WR, someone that can open up the return game would be a major upgrade but I don't think its at the top of the list considering our holes elsewhere.

For RB if we get rid of Ronnie we certainly need to draft someone early, someone like Ingram obviously would be nice but I doubt we go that route.

Qb is interesting, if we decide to go away from Henne we could possibly look at a trade for either Kolb or Carson Palmer whose respective teams may want to part with, possibly. I like Henne, I think he takes way too much heat from fans who really don't know what they are watching and he gets the lion's share of the blame for fan's ridiculous expectations for this team this year. This team still has major holes and is starting an extremely young team we should be around 9 or 10 wins with our schedule, Im not sure why anyone thinks we should be a 12 or 13 win team with this division and schedule, its just silly. Even if we want to keep starting Henne we probably need to draft another Qb to develop since Pennington is done and Thigpen is a career backup.

 

thats a good post, iam just pissed at ronnie brown, I think he has such a unique skillset, one of his biggest fans for sure, I swear this idiot {Henning} may really not now how to use it, or get it into space...but I do know hes not running right either, his timidness and bad angles is disturbing, theres just no explosiveness when he chooses his angles, iam not sure thats coming from losing something physically, or mentally at this point, but iam gonna be lookin hard these next 6 games, his future, our future, depend on us realizing who's at fault.

 

I agree about Ronnie, I think he is one of the best talents at the RB position in the game, or at least he was. I'm not sure what it is this year, maybe he isn't being allowed to get into a rhythm, maybe he's still not 100% I don't know he just doesn't look 'right' this year. We have also stopped using the Wildcat and that took away some of his big plays. I dont know, I am a big Ronnie fan but I can also see that there is something wrong with him. I have a feeling he is going to leave and have a big career somewhere else, I think he'd be great for some other teams out there.

Henning does need to go its hard to see how much is piss poor play calling and how much is the oline, talent, etc. This offense should not be right at the bottom of the league in scoring that is absurd. Honestly I'll have no respect for this coaching staff and front office if they don't replace Henning he just simply isn't effective anymore and from a front office that preaches accountability they need to own up to it and bring in a new ocoordinator next year.

 

For what its worth, just about any running back under Bob Stoops in Oklahoma will be seen as a change of pace back aside for Peterson. Stoops recruits based on his offense and most times a back in that system will have issues on the next level. Murray is a typical back from that system who is overvalued at this stage of the process. They put up numbers, yes, but very few, and I mean very few have ever made a mark from that school in the last 10 years, and certainly since Stoops got there.

Just my 2 cents.

 

I must say, this is one of the best threads I've seen in the mains. Glad to see the "idiot" fans being called out. And if you're second guessing the Jake Long pick then yes, you're an idiot. Matt Ryan is a good QB, but he's nowhere near as good as his job as Long is at his job & Flacco is an average QB on a great team.

It's soooooo easy to second guess draft picks after the fact, congratulations to the "we shoulda took Ryan" clowns, but reality is, we didnt take him. Henne is our QB & we will sink or swim with him for the next 2-4 years. If we can add some playmakers on offense he'll be fine, if not, we will struggle, but our offensive woes go WAAAY beyond the QB either way.

I apologize to those who pay attention, sorry for stating the obvious, for the ignorant and ill informed, watch some tape before you run your yap, my football IQ drops every time i read your foolishness.

 

I hope you weren't directing this at me. I think debating the wisdom of whether you should take a QB first or address the line [in a general sense, not necessarily even Dolphin specific] is a valid discussion. I saw some good posts in support of doing things the way we did it and taking a tackle first. If this has become a message board where you have to sit around all day and watch film to participate in a discussion then that is unfortunate.

 

[mod] stop getting personal [/mod],case in point carson palmer didn't even start his first year.He got hurt against the steelers in the playoffs in his third season when a the steelers nosetackle hit him low on the first play of the game.So don't mislead people saying he got hurt because of poor line play the bengals were 11-5 that year.
To make this simple for somebody like you to understand the qbs you mentioned could not process the information quickly enough to be successful.
Everybody was saying how bad the bills line was and edwards had no time to throw.What happend when they switched to fitzpatick?
By the way I said 3 of the 4 were first round picks.I never said brady was.

 

Brady walked into a sweet spot?What were the pats before brady?How many games would the colts win without manning.The packers are over acheiving?Your kidding right?
Rivers went 14-2 his year starting.Wow?

 

friend pumpdogs is right

 

TP...I don't see any free agents wanting to come here for anything other then money after this year. This coaching staff has let the players down. Other teams will use this against us in competing with those same free agents.

 

Thanks Con.

I don't know.... I tend to think that Peterson kid is ok. Just kidding; I know what you were saying.

I was actually valuing him as a complimentary #2 back behind Ronnie or maybe Michael Bush who can be a threat out of the backfield. Would you rather have Hunter? How about my boy Jamie Harper? He's really beginning to come into his own.