people scream at henning for getting too cute. just imagine mcdaniels lol. mcdaniels is even more insane. i like the guy but he's a loose cannon. i dont get the sense he would fit in with our ball control philosophy
I don't scream at Henning for getting too cute. I personally like most end arounds, so long as they don't go to the slowest WR on the roster.
Because Marshall didn't have his best season as a pro under McDaniels? I'm not asking for McDaniels to be the HC.
McDaniels is the only consistent in all his dysfunctional professional relationships, and there is a ****-load of them. He's clearly shown he can't co-exist with a long line of players and coaches, and two of them are on this team.
LMAO. We have about as much PROOF that Henning changed things as we do Henne "changed". If you want to play that game I'm all for it. The offensive play calling has been all over the place all year. Unless Henne's been changing plays all year I'd say Hennings been changing things weekly. So to come on here and write 14 paragraphs of hot air scolding those of us who forward the theory that Henning may actually be the one that was told to change is typical for you yet not at all any more valid.
While he is the chief. Circumstances can alter opinions of others, as well as their attitudes and performance. I'm not saying McDaniels would get along well with Marshall, but I don't think it's cut and dry either (same goes with Nolan).
If we're playing games, I'm playing chess and you are playing whack-a-mole. Why do you disagree that the play calling wasn't consistently the same as it has been? What is your evidence for this? Because I clearly listed reasons and gave evidence.
At least he hasn't pulled out the Charlie Weis TE end around special that Weis used a few times in NE. WTF!?!?1
I agree. But I will say that in the Tennessee game, we used a lot more 4 and 5 man routes than we had previously. The fact that we used Cobbs at all in the past few games is a change, for the better IMO. But strategically, we're still running the same tired arss'd offense. I'm a proud Henne defender b/c I think the guy can play, but I'm not going to go over board with the praise this week. The Raiders just about gift wrapped the game for us with stupid game planning and play calling. THE WHOLE LEAGUE knows not to blitz Chad Henne, and not to play a lot of man against him either. The whole league except for the Raiders, apparently. All year long teams have been dropping into zones, taking away the deep routes, and squeezing our WRs. Basically forcing Henne to make great throw after great throw, and waiting for the inevitable mistake. Even the Jets kept their blitzing to a minimum. Thats good scouting/planning, and our offense has struggled against those looks all year long. The only teams to play primarily man were the Packers, who Henne/Marshall torched until the Pack adjusted, and the Raiders, who obviously (and incorrectly) thought they'd be able to shut down our WRs with tight man to man looks. #22 McFadden is an abomination, and Henne targeted him mercilessly. Even more merciless, was the Raiders' decision to keep putting #22 in Man coverage with little help, even after it was obvious what was happening. The other thing about man is that it makes getting YAC a whole lot easier. It wasn't some new strategy that caused chunk plays, it was man coverage, guys having their back to the play, missing tackles etc. If Marshall had played yesterday, and Oakland played the same coverages, we might have put up 40+ points on those clowns. So while I applaud Henne on a solid performance, IMO it was the Raiders' stupidity that allowed for the success. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I don't think Cleveland will be be so accommodating.
[video=youtube;09LTT0xwdfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LTT0xwdfw[/video] *gosh* who now wishes to debate me a bit over Mo in terms of offense?
I think you're placing way too much of the blame on the OL. We had a solid run game last year and in 08', and there was nothing "deadly" about our offense. Sure we could use a better trio inside, but it's not like they're getting much help. Henning love the power O, but Smiley is gone and Incognito is a sub par pulling guard. Richie and Jerry are both better at drive blocking and combo blocking, Henning should play to those strengths instead of pushing the power O down their throats. Also, Ronnie and Ricky aren't very good. There, I said it. We can block a run play perfectly and get R&R to the safety level untouched and in stride, it still goes for an 8-12 yd gain. The better backs in the league hit triples and homers when they get a fat pitch down the middle, our RBs line singles into left field. When the blocking breaks down, R&R struggle to do anything on their own. Again, the good RBs can make a man miss, find a cutback lane, turn a nothing play into a nice gain, on occasion at least. R&R do it rarely, if ever. So it's not just the OL, its all parties involved in the stinkage. Henning needs to use more creativity and play to the strengths of his team, the OL can execute better, but the RBs aren't going to improve, IMO they both need to be replaced. If we can get Ronnie to take a pay cut, keep him, if not let him walk. Ricky should be gone either way. Henning too. I'm not bashing him, but his scheme doesn't fit the players we have, Henne especially, so unless we plan on bringing in a new QB/Pennington clone, we need to move on.
The fact that the offense was better without Marshall just points to Dan Henning's inflexibility as an offensive coordinator. What he grew comfortable with from 2008 to 2009 was the no-headed offense, not having any one guy that draws all the attention. When they went back to that for a game, the play calling started to make better sense, just as I hypothesized that it would. Dan Henning gave us plenty of warning that he wouldn't be able to adapt to having a Brandon Marshall. In his interviews he said that what he liked most about the WRs unit was that there were "no b-tches". He talked about time and time again how having that one diva type guy can really drain an offense, how he likes having three or four number one's instead of one number one. He said all this. He said it. And we just dismissed it. And now when we're seeing it all unfold, we're surprised. But, that's our fault. Dan Henning is the same limited guy he's always been. To expect a guy near 70 years old to change was a bad idea. The day we traded for Brandon Marshall should have been the day Dan Henning was fired. Dan Henning doesn't mind having one guy in the passing game get a lot of production. What he does mind is having one guy in the passing game consistently draw extra coverage. If you remember the 2006 season, one reason it was such a mess was because teams would find a way to double and triple Steve Smith, and the offense became really predictable if you could take away that weapon, unless the Panthers were able to run all over you. 2003 was really the first year Steve Smith started to do anything worthy of note. He wasn't drawing consistent doubles yet. Then he spent 2004 injured, and teams didn't really double or triple the ancient Muhsin Muhammad because they weren't convinced he was going to kill them, even though he did end up doing that in many games. Then in 2005, Smith was coming off a year on injured reserve after a serious injury. They found out, as the season wore on, that this guy is incredible, fresh off an injury or not. Yet, he averaged 113 yards and 1.1 TDs over the first 8 games of 2005, but only 83 yards and 0.4 TDs over the final 8 games. Meanwhile, the offense went from averaging 27.5 points per game the first 8 games, to 21.4 points per game the last 8 games of the season, a difference of a touchdown per game. Teams started to roll significant coverage toward Steve Smith, and instead of finding a way to adapt, Henning's offense floundered. And then 2006, forget about it. Teams continued to roll coverage to Steve Smith because they knew they'd found the answer to Henning's offense, and the team scored 16.9 points per game. Before this game I theorized that Dan Henning didn't like Brandon Marshall's presence in this offense, he's uncomfortable with him, and it shows in his game plans and play calls. Therefore, the hypothesis was that without Brandon Marshall, Henning's play calls and game plan would probably look a lot better. That's exactly what happened. Proof that Dan Henning is not the offensive coordinator for this offense.
The difference was noticeable in the Titans game. He was a lot more agressive. I was very impressed with him today on many levels. He's had to deal with a lot of **** the past few weeks and he came out and really had a very good game, as a quarterback and as a leader. I mean, the guy got his kneecap busted up 2 weeks ago, worked his tail off to get back and threw for over 300 yards and 2 touchdowns in a big game...that's admirable and what you love to see in your young quarterback. You can say what you want about Henne, but you can't deny his heart, toughness, and work ethic. It's games like today that shows me Henne has "it". If you read my posts regarding Henne it's no secret I'm a big fan of his and believe in him. Hopefully that benching was just what he needed to turn the corner and hopefully he can build on this performance. I believe he will.
End arounds aren't good or bad plays, the issue is when you call them. If you call them after you've been consistently pounding the ball inside and the defense is biting hard to stop that then your odds of getting outside are good. If you call an end around without setting up the inside run or against a defense that is sitting in its outside zones then you're are setting up the offense for failure.
2008 we made the playoffs and 2009 we had virtually a rookie at QB and we still competed for a playoff spot until injuries decimated our team. The oline is horrendous in the run game. Kelly was pushing Berger backwards on run plays today. You cant expect any coordinator to put together scoring machine offenses when he cant run and has a 2nd year starter at QB. The expectations from our fans considering our flawed personnell are absurd. We should have lost more games then we have. Our offense has been held together by smoke and mirrors all year long. Most coordinators would have done far worse with what we have. when you have a flawed passing game and a flawed running game you should be under .500. And too think that there is a scheme out there that is better suited for our mediocre personnel is just wrong. There simply isnt. The coaching is not the problem nor has it been this year. Its simply we have an improving but still flawed QB and a poor run blocking oline. The QB wwe could do nothing about. You cant make someone learn faster than they are capable of. But the oline could have been done better. I agree with jettisoning Smiley and Grove but aI dont think we did well in choosing Incognito and Berger to be the guys to replace them. Jerry will need another year so I'm not worried about him yet. We need to replace Berger or Incognito if not both next year with a run mauler. Henning's system produces fantastic years for his QBs when he has a running game to play off of. Thats the story of this year, the failure to get a running game and thats not on Henning since he doesnt bring in the players
I know we made the playoffs in 08', that doesn't change the fact that offensively we were mediocre at best. We played the Raiders that year, beat em 16-15 IIRC, the one TD was on a end around to Ted Ginn. We went to the playoffs after a 2-4 start by squeaking out wins vs the Bills(x2), Rams, Chiefs, Raiders, Seahawks, 49ers, Broncos & Jets aka the easiest schedule on earth. There was nothing deadly about our offense, the Ravens proved that twice. Another hole in your logic is that our OL in 2008 had the same Tackles, Long and Carey. The interior was Satele, Smiley & Thomas. Thomas played about 1 half before he went on IR. Smiley had a bad shoulder for most of the year and broke his leg before the Buffalo game. So our interior OL was made up of Satele, who got rag dolled by any decent DT/NT, Ike Ndukwe, and Andy Alleman. I think Incognito-Berger-Jerry are at least as good as those three, if not better. Berger took over for Grove for much of last season and the running game remained effective for the most part. Jerry beat Thomas out of a job in camp, he and Grove are still unemployed to this day. So to say that a drop off in talent explains the lack of an effective run game is plain ignoring the acts. The Pats are getting by with Green-Ellis and Woodhead running behind an OL that isn't as good as ours. Mendenhall ran for 150 plus behind the Steelers MASH unit of an OL. Arian Foster leads the NFL in rushing behind an OL where not a single guy would start for us. Kansas City has the top run game in football, how many of their OL would start for us? ZERO. I almost forgot about Peyton friggin Hillis running all over everyone. All across the league teams are getting the job done with less talent up front than what we have. It's all about scheme and execution, having running backs who can threaten the defense laterally and/or vertically helps as well. If you think there isn't a system that's better suited for our personnel I disagree there as well. Henne is not a dink and dunk QB like Penny. Henne's strengths are throwing the ball down the field, he needs a passing attack that emphasizes the vertical game in order to maximize is potential. Dan Henning's offense is designed to create a bunch of 3rd and 2's and then hand the ball to Polite. Henning habitually max protects, causing our WRs to be double or even triple teamed, causing Henne to have to force throws, throw the ball away or use his non existent scrambling and improvisational skills. Norv Turner's offense would be perfect for us, modeled on the 90's Cowboys groups. Big aggressive OL, dependable RB, dominant possession WR, speedy deep threat WR, reliable blockerS/receivers at TE & FB. All in support of a slightly above average QB who is now in the Hall of Fame largely because he was surrounded with weapons and protected by behemoths. No we're not going to have HOF talent everywhere like those Cowboy teams, but we already have a big physical OL, a slightly above avg QB, a dependable TE and a dominant possession WR. All we need is our Alvin Harper and Moose Johnston b/c Hartline and Polite aren't cutting it. Not sure when you got on this tip about our talent sucking, bu I hope you'll look around the league and see that several teams are doing a lot more than we are, with a lot less than we have. I'm not saying it's all on Henning, the players are to blame also. But to say that it's all about a lack of talent is, IMO, ignoring reality.
This except for the part where Henne pulls his head out of his butt. But I'll add one more point. It was a man-free defense. We have already established that Henne can toast that coverage. It's Cover 2 that has been the bane of the offense in 2010.
Hugo - I usually am not in agreement with your take - but in this case I am. I think the benching of Henne was a good thing. It let him know he needs to be more aggressive; to step up to the plate and be a leader. We should never discount the psychological factors playing QB. Sometimes a starter may feel he has to play fearfully to avoid being benched or lose his position (that does enter the psyche). Interestingly, I also think the absence of Marshall helped Henne a bit. He did not have a target that he felt he "had" to look to first. But, could just spread the ball around. I think it helped the coaching staff as well in using the RB's more effectively and more often. I am not saying that to criticize Marshall per se. I think that the Dolphins offense - the OC and the QB - need to keep their identity of a physical running game and balanced offense; and approach the game within a "team" construct when Marshall does return. To see all WR's as targets. And let Marshall just be a WR - rather than a key player one has to make sure he gets his touches. Sometimes having a big star makes the other players a bit more passive expecting him to make the play, and may make the QB and the OC focus too much on that.
I read this and thought that it was admirable with the effort put into the hypothesis. I just can't get away from the idea that it's chaos theory. Forget about Henning. Did you ever give pause in your theory to the fact that Jake Delhomme was never THAT good? Aside from that there are teams in this league that CAN and WILL play football with two deep safties. Those are the teams we struggle to move the ball against. It points to one large issue that has yet to be resolved. We can't run against it. So now the OC turns to the pass. That's when the measuring stick of Quarterbacks in this league appears. Can you slice and dice a two safety coverage? That is what seperates the great QBs from the average QBs. For this theory you need no crystal ball. You need a no time machine to go back and watch Jake Delhomme and Steve Smith. All that you need to do is watch the coverage in the next game.
Two deep does not necessarily mean doubling Marshall. It's about alignments as well, and it's a fact that when teams started to double and triple Steve Smith consistently in Carolina, the offense struggled. That's a fact, no time machines necessary. It's happening again all over in Miami because Dan Henning refuses to adjust his offense.
I don't think they have allowed Marshall to effect them in that way - Which causes concern from some. I never did like that man in your avatar. Always seemed to be a pompous bastard and never gave ANY consideration to the fact that he was wrong.
I don't want to lose you here to banter. The OC is gone one way or another. He does not matter. Have you seen this team fare well versus teams that can play a 2 safety defense?
That's nothing really new, though. That's been a gameplan that Dan Henning has used from time to time. They used pretty much the same gameplan as they did vs. the Titans against the Ravens in both games in 2008.
Well, there's that, and virtually every game where Brandon Marshall has been taken away the other receivers have either produced big games or had the ball go to them at least as often as Marshall.
They should just fire him now, let someone else do the playcalling, then install new offense next year with new coordinator. If he is lame duck, then let him go, he is doing nothing to help team. If anything, he may be like "f**K these people", humans tend to do that when they know they are done.
Seems like Henne is just facing man coverage since his benching. When he's able to beat zone coverage, we can say he's progressed.
personally, i believe the whole benching Henne lit a fire under his @ss is a bunch of bunk .... to me, what really happened is that he KNOWS there is no one else (sans CP) breathing down his neck -- so he can afford to take chances, whether Henning likes it or not ... cuz, who else are they going to play - Thigpen ... i think not ...... i also believe that Marshall not being on the field actually was a break for him .... as he doesn't need to try to appease anyone right now (don't get me wrong, i'm not slamming Marshall - but in our current state, and him drawing most of the coverage -- it becomes a challenge to get him involved) we are seeing the Henne now, that we should have seen from the beginning of this year - but wasn't allowed to ....
^^^This. It's a mistake to think that Henne "learned" anything from the benching and injury. All I saw yesterday was Henne devouring man coverage and blitzes, which he's been doing since the Monday night game vs NY last year. Its zone and umbrella coverages that he's struggled with, the entire offense has struggled against it. Cleveland has competent coaches and they won't play right into our hands, so we'll get a better barometer this week.
Henne looked like a completely different QB yesterday. He played with confidence and looked like he was in command. Maybe benching him has made him realize he needs to step it up if he wants to be the franchise QB. I thought Henning did a much better job mixing up the play calling....hopefully we can go on a nice winning streak and possibly make the playoffs.
part of that is scheme on our end though too. It's easy to call zone when you've constantly got the opposing offense in passing situations. You can't call zone, however, if the opposing offense is running the ball well and getting into 3rd and short situations. A big difference yesterday wasn't just in Henne, it was also our running game. I know our overall numbers were inflated with that big Ricky run, but overall we stuck to running the ball and Ronnie ran like a battering ram all day on them. We weren't getting huge runs but we were getting about 4 yards a pop, that kept the raiders from being able to drop back in zone for the most part.
