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Play Fakes vs Oakland

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I thought this was worth posting a thread about in the Mains, it's something I've talked about in The Club a little.

    During his Day After Press Conference, Tony Sparano specifically noted that he got his hands a little more dirty in the play calling and in talking to everyone, coaches, players, etc. He said he usually stays out of their way, but he didn't want to do that in this Oakland game. He wanted to make sure everyone stayed "convicted" on the ground game, ie. he's tired of us abandoning it at the first sign of trouble.

    But one thing he also noted is that Chad Henne coming off the field "was good" because he told Sparano a couple of times things he didn't want called anymore, and if he doesn't want something called then it's a good idea not to give him that stuff anymore.

    I believe I know exactly what Chad Henne requested, and it was a cessation of the Play Fakes on the pass plays.

    I have a running theory about why Chad Henne has not become very good with his fakes over the last three years. He needs all the time he can get to read the defense, and the more realistic your play-action mechanics are, the more time you spend with your eyes off the defense. Dan Marino was awful at play-action mechanics, and that was the exact reason why. Marino has even stated it.

    We know for a fact that Chad Henne has told the coaches that he doesn't like shotgun plays as much as dropback plays, specifically because he appreciates the extra time to read the defense that a dropback affords him, whereas in shotgun he has to look down to bring in the snap first. It's not exactly a very far jump to assume Henne also hates having to turn his back to the defense on play-action.

    The Dolphins might have had a chance at getting Henne to be Peyton Manning with his play fakes, IF they didn't so thoroughly abuse the device. Like with drugs, there's use, and then there's abuse. The Dolphins abuse the play fake in their passing offense. They use it constantly, even on plays like 3rd & 10+ where nobody on the defense could possibly buy the fake.

    Because of this dynamic, Henne has every incentive not to make his fakes very realistic, so that he can get his head around as quickly as possible and start reading the defense. He has no incentive to work on his fakes and make them uniform. Uniformity in your fakes takes time, practice, and commitment. Why should he be committed when he knows that half the time he'll be play faking on a play where the defense can tell by the situation, personnel or formation that there is very little chance that the play is actually a run?

    That's what I mean by abusing the play fake in your offense. If you didn't abuse it, and you called play fakes when there was a legitimate chance of running the football, and you coached the offensive line and running backs well at selling the fake (currently, they are not very good at it)...then you might be able to convince a Chad Henne that the little extra fraction of a second he spends with his back turned, the little extra effort, will pay actual dividends...you might have stood a chance at making him work on his fake mechanics, striving for uniformity. But alas, the Dolphins haven't done any of the above.

    That brings me to Oakland. Chad Henne's play fakes during the game were bad, even for him. Usually he's just inconsistent with it. In this game he was downright Marino-esque. He had zero commitment to the idea of a play fake.

    In literally 9 of the first 14 pass calls during the Oakland game, Dan Henning called for Chad Henne to execute a play fake (even with a bum knee). But then in 20 of the final 21 pass calls, Chad Henne did not execute a play fake.

    So what did he ask Sparano, when he went up to him and said "Don't give me anymore of this?" Pretty easy to guess.

    Overall, on plays with a play fake, Henne was 5 of 9 for 89 yards with 1 TD, 1 INT, and 1 Sack for -9 yards. On plays without a fake, he was 12 of 21 for 218 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, and 2 Sacks for -13 yards.

    I think this is a significant development for a few reasons.

    1. For one thing, I don't buy for one second that Dan Henning or the coaching staff just "didn't know" that Chad Henne doesn't like executing play fakes, especially useless ones. They've known forever that he prefers dropping back as opposed to the Shotgun. Even Omar Kelly's special needs bag boy at the grocery store could tell you that if a guy doesn't like Shotgun because it takes his eyes off the defense, he probably dislikes play fakes just as much if not more. So for Tony Sparano to intercede on Chad Henne's part means that something has changed, either in the way Chad Henne's willingness (or unwillingness) to execute their offense, or something has changed in Tony Sparano's willingness to step between a growing rift between Chad Henne and Dan Henning.

    2. Are we seeing the death of the play fake in this offense period, as in for the rest of the season? If so, that's a very significant development. Michael Irvin wasn't just talkin out his arse before the Cincinnati game, when he noted that it seemed like Chad Henne threw a lot of his interceptions off play-action. Henne has had 12 interceptions this season. Some of them his fault, some of them not his fault. I've counted three interceptions this year that either were not interceptions at all (see: Steelers) or were absolutely not his fault at all. I've counted three more interceptions that were only marginally his fault, as in he probably could have thrown the ball a little bit better, but the primary fault still lay with the receiver for not playing the ball correctly or coming out of his break correctly. There were of course two more interceptions that were very situational, either you take a chance and stick the ball in there or your hopes of winning the game are dead. What is interesting is that all four of the remaining interceptions, that were just horrible decisions or horrible throws and can't be attributed to anyone but Chad Henne...were all off the play fake. That includes both Ninkovich interceptions, the Bengals interception, and the Raiders interception. Of the five interceptions that were mixed bags, two were off the play fake. That leaves only three interceptions on the year where he could even be marginally blamed (4th & Goal vs Jets, the high slant to alligator arms Marshall vs Ravens, the 36 seconds remaining pickoff by Josh Wilson vs Ravens), that did not come on play-action. If the Dolphins are giving up the ghost on play-action, then it does make you wonder if Chad Henne will be a lot safer with the football.

    Going forward, I don't believe for one second that you can just take play-action out of the playbook period. That's not what I want and I doubt it's what Miami is going to do. What I would want is for Miami to be smart with the use of play fakes on their passing plays. It's not too much to ask. If you pare down the number of pass plays that involve a fake, to just the ones where a fake could actually be useful, you might stand a better chance of getting all of the players, Henne included, to actually sell the damn fake. When we fire Dan Henning and bring in a new coordinator, that is one thing that the new coordinator would have to address, to me, in interviews.
     
  2. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Thats an insightful observation.

    How about the accusations that Henne tips off the side of the field he will be throwing to.For instance when the called play is supposed to go a receiver on one side of the field his progessions will only go so far as that side of the field when the intended receiver is covered.

    Have you seen any of that ?
     
  3. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, I'm pretty sure the Oakland INT for example, Henne started off looking right, then went left, then came back to the middle...

    Could be wrong though...
     
  4. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Great post CK,

    From what I saw during the Oakland game there seemed to be much more communication between Tony and Chad, and this is essential.

    I said to a friend after the game that it seemed as if Chad had much more control that game, and I believed Tony took the reigns off slightly. This season the regime seemed to try and mold Chad into the QB they wanted him to be, and in the Oakland game it seemed if they allowed Chad to be the QB he is, and he flourished - especially after the INT and during the stretch you mention.

    I am a firm believer that a strong relationship between the Coach and the QB is a must for championship caliber teams - and the Oakland game seemed to be a big step in that direction.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's gotten a lot better about that this year especially his last five games or so. I really see him looking over both sides of the field, trying to find an open guy. And you don't have to look at the total opposite field and then come back over to a guy, in fact there's a SERIOUS danger in that...you just have not not stare down the guy you're throwing it to.

    Here's one thing about the play fake that I rarely see talked about. It all but takes one of your receiving options out of the passing game. Yes, the guy you just faked it to can release on a route and ultimately get the ball, but his route is very delayed, and he's pretty easy to cover for a player either in man or zone. I mean hell, the idea of the play fake is to get people flowing toward that guy at the beginning of the play, so the chances are whoever is covering him is either already flowing toward him, or has a good eye on him.

    So even though the Dolphins may not go "max protect" on every play, since they've often over-used the play fake, they have taken their running backs relatively out of the passing game even when they technically do release instead of staying in to block.

    I mentioned in another thread in The Club a play that came two plays before the interception against the Raiders, how it was an odd play. The Raiders showed a big package blitz and ultimately came with six players. Miami was lined up real tight, I think you call it an Ace formation but anyway the unique thing about it is at the snap every single receiving option split off in a different direction. The backs immediately ran out to the flats, the receivers and tight end all released out, and the Raiders rushed with six players against five OLs. Since the six rushers were all pretty tight, Miami's OL was able to buy enough time with zone protection for Henne to quickly get the ball to a weak spot in the coverage, with Stanford Routt being unable (due to obstacles in his path) to stay with Brian Hartline in man as he dragged across the middle. It was a 3rd & Long situation and Hartline gained 23 yards on it.

    Does that play happen if you call a play fake? No I don't think it does. The back that flared out to Hartline's side drew a linebacker with him, and I believe that linebacker helped get in Routt's way and prevent him being able to cover Hartline.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen Henning's offense do a good job of setting plays up. For example, the end around against Oakland was well set up b/c we had been running consistently inside and the defense had adjusted to stop that. But we ran that end around in several games when we hadn't been running inside and the defense hadn't adjusted. With no set up for a play like that the odds of success are poor. It seems like Henning sometimes just has a list of plays he plans to run and he does so regardless of what the defense is doing. The one area where he probably should do that and hasn't is the run game (he should still adjust formations and types).

    That's probably why we've seen those inexplicable play action calls on third and long plays all year. There is almost no chance that the defense will react so all the fake accomplished was making it harder for the offense and Henne. That's the difference between setting up an offense to fail and setting one up to succeed.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He does that a lot but it's not that necessary. Even if he's looking on the same side of the field, it doesn't mean he's tipping someone off. That 3rd & Goal pass to Hartline where the defender hit him and he couldn't haul it in, that defender didn't hit him because he was tipped off about where Henne was going. Henne was looking out at Fasano on the flat pattern but decided Michael Huff had him pretty good, and so he came back to Hartline on the curl and stuck it in there. The reason the defender was able to break up the play was simply because he was watching and read Hartline's route, and he actually got there early on what should have been called a pass interference penalty.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree. Although to me it does seem Dan Henning calls about one play a game, usually late in the game, that was set up pretty good. That touchdown against the Packers was a good example. The Packers had been biting on the back side and letting the back side receiver go all day and so Henning called the throwback screen.
     
  9. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Another issue with the playfake on a play that I can remember against the Raiders. I think we were in 21 personnel, and Oakland was stacked at the LOS ready to bring heat (I think they ended up bringing 7 or 8 guys).

    On this play... we did a playfake... and Henne got sacked almost as soon as he turned back around from the playfake. The first problem is the obvious one that a playaction play takes longer to develop and takes longer for the QB to get the ball out. And on a play where your time is going to be cut dramatically due to a heavy blitz... its a bad combination.

    Another factor you mentioned though was how a playfake essentially takes a receiver away. Well, it also can take a blocker away, as was the case in this play. The guy coming off the edge (think it was a safety or a LB?) could have been picked up by Polite, but he was busy faking like he is going to get the ball and heading towards the middle of the line instead of staying back and protecting the edge...
     
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  10. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I guess I always wonder if its a coincidence or its set up. Henning usually calls his "trick" play at about the opponent's 40 yard line. Its usually something like an end around or a flea flicker. Those rarely seem set up to me based on what's going on in the game, but they do seem planned. Maybe they look for tendencies in the film and set up plays to take advantage of that, but don't adjust if the defense does something different than expected? Maybe Henning just isn't very good at in-game adjustments?
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Excellent observation. I remember the play, and I think the same thing.
     
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  12. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    good post.

    I went and watched Tony's press briefing you were talking about, and it was very good to hear what he said about Henne telling him what he didn't want and that Tony himself got more involved. I don't think it was a coincidence that we had our best offensive output in I don't know how long after hearing this.

    In my opinion, I think some of Henne's struggles have been the coaching staff trying conform Henne into what they wanted him, not what Henne's strengths were, and i hope after listening to what he did and did not want, they can continue to work together and grow. Hopefully the new playcaller next year will be onboard with this as well.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I wouldn't accuse Dan Henning of being great at in-game adjustments, but I wouldn't accuse him of being incapable of them either. He does tend to notice one thing that ends up useful at some point later in the game.

    But, that's not enough, IMO.
     
  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    This thread is funny to me. I literally just finished watching the first half of the Oakland game before coming here. Late in the first half, the Dolphins are driving in Oakland territory. It's 3rd and 10, and the Raiders are coming with a heavy blitz. Dan Henning calls a play action pass because he tends to do that at the worst time. Henne takes the snap, literally sprints to the running back and half-asses a play fake. Why? Because he knows the blitz is coming and has to hurry so he can get his head turned around in time to hit Bess down the sideline for the first down. It was a great play by Henne, not only to make the play, but to overcome the awful play call.

    There obviously is a lot of truth to this, and if they can continue doing what Henne prefers in most cases, then we will be much better off.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Fully agreed.
     
  16. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good point, When Penny was around that's who he talked to.
     
  17. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Nice post Chris. This subject has quickly creeped atop my pet peeve list, ahead of people who answer their phone during the movies. Just curious--- but did anyone make a drinking game out of this?

    We've seen so much useless playaction this year that it seems like it's almost become part of the snap...... or that it's one of Henne's Tourette's ticks.

    The playaction vs the 3rd and long blitz is what put me over the top. That's as senseless as calling a bases-loaded intentional walk with the score tied in the bottom of the 9th.
     
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  18. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Great post. There was also a play where Henne half assed a play fake and turned around just in time to get hit in the mouth by Michael Huff. If I were him, I'd have been pissed too. I've been saying all year that Henne and Henning just don't mix. I believe that Henne's benching was due to him not fitting with Henning's offense as well as Pennington, not his bad play/lack of talent. It's great to see Henne being more assertive, for Sparano to be backing him publicly, and it increasingly looks like our hopes for a new OC will be granted during the offseason.
     
  19. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Self fulfilling prophecy - same posters, same issue and as it turns out, you are all wrong.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/12/02/1952824/henne-finds-confidence-during.html

    Now just in case you are wondering, my SPECULATION is that 2 refers to a route, 5 refers to a route, and 8 refers to a route. I would also SPECULATE that Chad Henne didn't like the route combination versus what the defense he was seeing on the field. Of course that doesn't feed into this fire.
     
  20. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    So with the proper information I just went back to the DVR and found the point in time Sparano was referencing. I'll start at first and 10 at the Raiders 22 yard line. For those of you who taped the game or have it on DVR it is at 11:15 to go in the 3rd quarter. This was the ONLY time Chad Henne could have been standing on the sideline with third down coming up.

    1st down - Wildcat with Henne on the field.

    2nd down - Wildcat with Henne OFF the field.

    (Henne on sideline)

    3rd down - toss sweep (that was run damn near 8 times in the game) interrupted by Jake Long false start

    3rd and 12 from the 34 yard line - Tyler Thigpen draw

    Field Goal






    You may now resume the conspiracy that Chad Henne doesn't like the Dan Henning playbook..............
     
  21. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I don't know if Chad Henne hates Dan Henning, but looking at the post I thought this was interesting:
    Doing some rough math, that works out to Henne completing 55% of his passes for a 9.88 YPA on play fakes, and Henne completing 57% of his passes for a 10.3 YPA on non-play fake passes. I haven't gone through earlier games to do a comparison, but I'm not seeing how there's a huge level of disparity there.
     
  22. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    You are not a conspiracy theorist. You don't belong here. Go away!
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The thing to note about it is, first off the play fakes produced 8 yards a play, a TD and a INT, and the non play fakes produced 9 yards a play, a TD and no INTs, so the non-play fake plays WERE more successful, minimize it as some would like, it's true.

    Second, before the turning point where they had called play fakes on 9 of 14 pass plays, and suddenly from then on they called play fakes on only 1 of 21 pass plays, Chad Henne had gone incomplete, intercepted, incomplete, sacked and incomplete on the last five play fakes. They had some success early in the game but the Raiders had started to adjust to what the Dolphins were doing on offense, and putting Henne behind the 8-ball on useless play fakes was too much of a hindrance to continue that success as the Raiders adjusted. And the so the play fakes ended.
     
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  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I like how you say "you are all wrong" as if you have concrete evidence to support yourself, then use the words "SPECULATE/SPECULATION" which imply uncertainty...... but then again--- you are the ruler of the universe so you're afforded extra luxuries.

    Is it possible that the 2 refers to playaction?....... or that 258 is a playaction pass, and that's the reason Henne didn't like it regardless of what the routes were?
     
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  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    How about ALL the other times Henne was standing on the sidelines?..... or was he playing both ways and on Special Teams too? I guess during NONE of those occasions could he have mentioned the BS playaction calls that he "plain as day" couldn't stand running, especially considering we did in fact STOP RUNNING THEM. How about during half time?.... or did we not get one of those?

    You & Emock wanna talk about percentages?------ Then how about giving us the percentage that 9/14 equates to versus 20/21 and then "SPECULATE" as to why we stopped running playaction. I guess there's no way any of this stems from the guy executing the play who obviously doesn't like doing so based on the manner in which he's executing it? :glare:
     
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  26. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Reading is fundamental.......

    All that is left to do is watch the game clock on each third down to see if there was a time out in the action. There was none.
     
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  27. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    No.... No I do not want to talk about percentages. I told him to go away. Did I say anything about percentages?

    I said that you were all wrong in your SPECULATION about what Henne did not like. Do you want to deal with the ISSUE rather than circumnavigate it?
     
  28. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Well-Known Member

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    You are right, reading is fundamental. You posted this as evidence that Chad did not request the end of play fakes.

    That says one occasion. So there could have been plenty others were he was communicating with the coaching staff and saying he didn't want play fakes.
     
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  29. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So that was the only time that Henne talked to his coach on the sideline? And not liking the action of the play is indicative of wanting to throw out the playbook, but not liking the route combo's isn't? Also, routes run with play action often would be different without it. But I’m sure you know this. That’s not sarcasm, I am sure you know that. The fact remains that we did stop running play action after it was clearly apart of the gameplan. That isn’t conspiracy theory. This could be, as it is just what I recall about something that I didn’t track, but in the past it didn’t seem like dropped the playaction regardless of it’s or our offenses success. So what was different about this game?

    Sparano mentions Henne not liking the called plays and suggesting his own. There is no way that was the only time they talked about playing calling during that game. Henne doing this was specificly mentioned as something different. It’s speculation, but it’s reasonable that Henne had something to do with the change of play calling. To dismiss that as "conspiracy threoy" based on your own speculation is not reasonable. Disagree all you want. That just leads to conversation. Dismissal is a little silly. What’s the point of posting in the thread then?
     
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  30. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Geez! The comment in reference was the CENTRAL focus of the thread. Without Sparano's words, we are not even having the discussion - well, at least I'm not.
     
  31. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The comment in reference
    wasn't even in the OP. Not sure how it then becomes the CENTRAL focus of the thread?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
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  32. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm not too sure which game you are looking at... but we called a time out before 3rd down TWICE in the third quarter against the Raiders...

    Including this...

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=301128013&period=3





    But hey... I guess I'm a conspiracy theorist too...
     
  33. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Well-Known Member

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    If you recall when we were in the 2 minute and 1 minute drill down big points to the Ravens, we were still running play action.
     
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  34. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Well-Known Member

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    I think just as important as the fact that Chad is telling the coaches what he wants and doesn't want, is the fact that he is doing so and executing. Think about it if Chad goes up to Sparano and says "Coach this play sucks I don't want to run this play" and when Coach asks him "Ok what do you want to run?" if Henne responds with something that makes him look like special ed Chad they're just going to tell him to shut up and run the play. Or if he changes the play to something and then throws a pick they won't listen to him anymore.
     
  35. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So some people here are "wrong" with their speculation on the issue, even when you look at the facts that it appears to be correct, but you're right with yours based on a quote, and what you assume/speculate the quote was referring to? Hmm.. ok.

    The fact of the matter is, people all over the place are on record talking about how Henne doesnt like to take his eyes off the D, whether its shotgun, or playaction. Miraculously the playaction pretty much ended part way into the game today. I as well, would be lead to speculate that Henne probably said something to the coaches about it. With the amount we ran the ball Sunday, any play action passing would have seemed beneficial, but we didn't really do it all second half of the game. It all seems to add up to me. But I'm wrong too I guess. Oh well.
     
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  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The fact of the matter is, something changed. I'm sorry but I have no idea how anyone can deny that. As I said, 9 of the first 14 pass calls had a play fake to it. That's two-thirds of the pass plays, utilizing a play fake. Then, suddenly, only 1 of the next 21 play calls involved a fake.

    Can anyone pretend that's just some random coincidence? The hell you say.

    I don't know if it was Chad Henne coming off the sidelines and saying "no mas" to the fakes, or if the fakes were (this time around) a call that Henne had the ability to make at the line of scrimmage based on the defense. Dan Henning did just recently say that Henne had a lot more freedom in his audibling and in the protection calls this game, but that a lot of it had to do with the defense they were facing. Maybe with the Raiders playing so much man, and with DBs turning their backs to the play in order to play man, they just figured it's ok if Henne makes calls at the line to forego the fake in this game, and so it wasn't even a request on his part but his decision at the line to call no more of them. I don't know.

    But there WAS a change. On his last five play fakes Henne had thrown three incompletions, gotten sacked, and threw an interception. He switched to no fakes, and started having success again.
     
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  37. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    CK, I am relatively new here, and have seen many VG posts from you. Were you a former coach, or scout, or something?
     
  38. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    No. This would not be conspiracy. This is fact. And it's a good find. I'm watching "short cuts". I tape the game and then I tape "short cuts". When I'm certain that I have "short cuts", I delete the game. I went back through the game looking for breaks in the action. They let the clock run down a similar amount of time before calling the time outs. It was a dufus moment not looking at the gamebook.

    Two things happened in these two plays and it involved no fake. The first one had no play fake at all in the design. The second had a play fake by design but was not executed as CK has mentioned.
     
  39. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Um...... Those were the actual words from Sparano's mouth. So when CK's first sentence OTHER than "been talking about this in club" is......

    I think it's pretty safe to say that it's the central focus of the thread.
     
  40. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    The question was specific to shotgun. That is the fact. I watched the press conference. Do you have more information than that?

    I'll answer that in an address to CK because again it is counter to the original post.
     

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