Apparently you would've preferred the alternative of an INT in those situations? I don't care who the heck you're playing, you cannot win in this league with the QB play that we received today from Henne. Its inexcusable.
completely agree. if anything we didnt run enough today. i wouldve given up on henne after the half but henning stuck it out with him giving henne a chance to redeem himself. it looked like a good call when he connected with fasano to tie it up but the bad henne showed up again at the end of the game. honestly our fans just dont want to admit that its the players that suck on offense. we need to draft two offensive linemen and pray that Henne improves with another offseason of hardwork
Henning didn't call a good game today, but the fact we scored in the 2nd half was amazing. It's tough to call a game, when you rolled out the offense we did in the 2nd half. We were completely devoid of playmakers and the Browns knew it. They doubled up on Bess and EVERYONE was up at the LOS.
You cannot win with QB play like we got today. I'm not a big Xs and Os guy, but I would suspect Henne saw more than his fair share of zone coverage on the afternoon. If so, its beyond the point of concerning.
quite a bit of zone. henne just plain sucks when we face zone and there's no coaching this year thats going to fix that
This ranks up there with Hennings worst. He has proven either he is incapable of making adjustments, or refuses to do it. There is a reason Rob Ryan will be a head coach next year, and Dan Henning will be a obscure coordinator that somehow had a long career in professional football. I am not defending Henne either, as he had a poor game. All in all the offense seemed rather uninspired to me today, minus Ronnie and Ricky running hard. It is what it is. I just hope we can find someone with an innovative mind to call plays in next year to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers, and hopefully actually try to develop our QB's.
Does anyone know of a QB in the past...who had this much trouble against a Cover Two....why does Henne suck so bad at it? And....can it be fixed?
Yeah we know Adam..... Henning is a God hamstrung by horrid players on offense! Thankfully IMO, there isn't even a need to argue the Henning point anymore. He'll be gone and rightfully so. Some of you can get all misty eyed when he leaves. I will too but they'll be tears of happiness.
its quite simple. some of us can actually see past the hysterics of this fanbase and see the actual causes of our problems. just look how noone mentions the oline. That should tell you all you need to know about how knowledgeable our fanbase is. once again poor oline and poor qb play cant be overcome by any coordinator but keep telling yourself we have playoff caliber players. if only we had a good coordinator we would be super bowl bound
You can go through posts all the way back and you'll see I'm not a "hysterical" "knee jerk" fan. You say that just to make your opinion look more important and more justified and quite frankly it's a weak attempt. I've played football well into college and done my share of coaching although the coaching has been at low levels. Been around enough to have a very educated opinion. I never said we'd be Super Bowl bound. If you look back to my posts to the beginning of the year you'd see I expected a playoff spot if everything went perfectly. The problem is how we've gotten where we are. Offense was expected by EVERYONE to be our strong point. We do have good players. Brandon Marshall, Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Devone Bess and players on OL that were expected to be one of the best OL's in the game this year. Looks like a decent core to me. Now you're telling me that the players which were all expected to make up our strongest unit completely suck to the level were the worst offense in the league? I don't even know how you can seriously try and argue that but you have been so carry on.
I don't mind the INT to Hartline. Sure it was a terrible throw, but when you take shots down field you win some and you lose some. The last INT was more bad luck than anything. The 2nd INT I have a serious problem with. Fasano is wide open in the middle and Henne forces it into Bess for reasons unknown. Whatever though, Henne we are basically stuck with, but I want Henning gone.
I hope henning gets fired goes bankrupt and finds himself somewhere in overtown so the homeboys can beat the ever loving **** out of him.
We do have many playoff caliber players. Clearly not at QB though. It's hard to win without good QB play. The pass protection was not that bad. henne holds the ball a long time.
Ben Watson had 10 catches IIRC. The Browns noticed they could work the middle w/ the TE and the went to throughout the game. That's how it's done. We bust them for a big play on a screen and went back to it ONCE. Ronnie is a very good reciever and should get the ball in space several times a game, but he doesn't. That's dumb. We had a near TD on a double move vs. Haden and IIRC we never tested Haden on a double move for the rest of the game. That's ******ed. We're still calling play action in obvious passing situations and still running on 3rd and 8. For what? No one is suggesting that we're some elite team being hamstrung by Henning. But there are several offenses who are doing more with less, we just lost to one of them. Our offense is dull, predictable, and catered to some imaginary group of players on some imaginary team.
I mind the first INT. It was an awful throw. Hartline was wide open and a mediocre QB could have gotten 7 from it.
well if you coached and played you more than most should know there is no answer for a poor offensive line and poor QB play. Its disengenuos for you to blame the coordinator if you know these two factors exist. So either you feel our QB play or oline play is good or you just want to blame someone rather than acknowledge the real faults. And if you know of how to overcome a poor oline and a poor QB performance then send in your application to the NFL because you will instantly become the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen
name me five teams who are doing more on offense with poor QB and poor Oline. Cleveland has one of the best left sides in all of football. Even with a better oline they could only generate ten legit points on their own and thats because they have a poor QB.
Blaming the QB is the easy way out. The guys a rookie and is being setup to fail rather than succeed. Whenever he gets hot Henning puts him on the sidelines and calls that friggin yes we are going to run the ball so stack the box wildcat offense not only guaranteeing we waste a play but getting Henne out of rythm in the process. Henne is being setup to fail, the guy played better when he first got here and has progressively gotten worse due to our coaching staff. I don't understand how people fail to see that.
Henne is a middle of the pack QB. Thomas is a top LT, I agree. But what is Jake, chopped liver? If you think we have a "poor" OL then I don't know what to tell you. Offenses doing more with less: Buffalo. Tampa. Washington. Oakland. Kansas City. Denver. St. Louis. Should I continue?
Good points, but I think we tried to do the same thing. We tried to get the ball to Fasano, we had him open at times--it was Henne not getting it to him in the proper scenario. He forced it to Bess on the INT when he was wide open. And then on the 2nd down play on the last series he had him completely open, but it wasn't until he was scrambling in the pocket that he saw him and made an inaccurate throw to him. We had another GREAT screen play called to Ronnie. I mean the play was a good one. Joe Hayden just made a great play and our blockers failed to get a hat on him. That isn't the fault of Henning, because had we correctly blocked Hayden, he goes for awhile. We had check down opportunities that we didn't start going to until late in the game. David Bowens batted down a big play for Ricky. How do you know we never tested Hayden on a double move again? Is it possible that he wasn't beaten so badly by it a 2nd time around? I know we certainly tried to test him again, but Bess was covered deep, and then Marlon Moore dropped a nice pass on a post against him. I can't defend the PA passes in 3rd and longs and in 2 minute drills--that's just completely ridiculous. Henne should just say screw it and not even do the damn thing. Henning didn't call a great game IMO. I think Chad Henne became a little flustered when they were working with what they had to in the 2nd half. Long, Incognito, Berger, McQuistan, Murtha and bookend WRs of Moore and Wallace. That's why we saw the Wildcat so darn much--that whole trying to get the ball into our playmakers hands. We were left with those two again. Cleveland was smart by taking our best WR out of the game by doubling him and bringing everyone up to the LOS to stop the running game. We went to the Wildcat and it helped a bit. I'll just say the plays to Fasano, the RBs, attacking Joe Hayden. I saw those things there and it was Henne that didn't get it to him and it was the players not helping the guy out when he needed the help.
I will completely disagree that KC and Denver work with less. I will completely disagree that Washington is an offense that is better than ours. Look at the offenses that you've indicated are doing more with less however (I'm taking out Washington because they're very bad) and what do they have in common? They're getting solid QB play--other than Oakland. I think Dan Henning has shown a propensity to get away from the running game this year and try and get Brandon Marshall the ball. I think those are his two biggest faults. I don't think he necessarily always puts Chad Henne in the best position to do very well. However, at the same time I think that problem is compounded by our QB playing poorly and our team playing poorly. Our offense as whole is a microcosm of our QB--too inconsistent to ever get anything started.
I agree. It was awful. But the decision not to try any more double moves or take advantage and throw underneath Haden was awful as well.
How do you know no more double moves were tried? I mean that is you completely speculating. Not every guy is wide open on a double move. I'm sure Hayden was ready for it the second time IF we did another one. All I can say is that we did try and throw on Hayden throughout the game--and we tried him on long/intermediate/short throws. Bess caught a few on him. We missed Bess deep against him. Marlon Moore dropped a 20+ yd play against him. Moore was able to get a PI against him that the refs failed to call. We didn't block him when we threw a screen pass his way. I mean we went after the guy, so to say that we didn't try to throw on him is incorrect. And although I know Dan Henning isn't a popular guy, not even with me, to say we didn't try a double move on him is less likely than us trying to because of the way we went after him. You just can't make that assumption and then be so hell-bent on it when making your evaluation on why Dan Henning so bad this game. Because trust me, he was bad for others.
Dwayne Bowe has 14 times as many TDs as Brandon Marshall. KC leads the league in rushing yds w/ Thomas Jones as their primary back running behind an average at best OL. I'd stack our skill guys up with Brandon Lloyd, Eddie Royal, Demariyus Thomas, Knowshon Moreno and Buckhalter any day. I doubt any of Denver's OL could start down here. But they find a way to have success. Solid QB play from marginal QBs and rookies doesn't just happen IMO. Fitzpatrick, Orton, Cassel, these guys aren't more talented than Henne, they are middle of the road guys who are having success while Henne has seemingly regressed as teams have found the best way to defense him (zone). It's on Henning to find ways to combat these looks, and to date he's come up with nothing. We looked great last week vs the Raiders and heir idiotic man coverages, but vs zone we've been clueless all year. We have no identity, we don't do anything particularly well. We don't put our players in positions to succeed, we don't exploit favorable matchups consistently. We suck, period. it's not all on Henning, I dont mean to imply that. But we're stuck w/ Henne for the next few years, so we might as well try a new OC b/c our current once isn't the answer and he's much easier to replace.
you dont know what to tell me because you are flat out wrong. henne may become a middle of the road QB but he is too inconsistent for that now. every single one of those teams has a better QB at this stage although Henne may become a better QB than the majority you posted if he figures out how to defeat cover 2. but right now he is one of the worst if not worst QBs when facing cover 2 in the entire NFL. As for the oline we have Jake Long and a declining Vernon Carey and thats about it. That is not an offensive line. that is two outposts surrounding a gaping hole in the middle. Maybe Jerry develops next year but he's useless this year. how can you possibly say the chiefs have a worse offensive line. you think they have the best rushing attack in the NFL by being a poor offensive line? raiders number 4 rushing avg, bills number 6. should i keep going?
all those QBs have been in the league for far longer than henne. the only guy you mentioned in a previous post was bradford who always had better accuracy but he has the advantage of having jackson pounding the rock and a ridiculously easy schedule compared to ours
I just don't agree with this. Are you completely negating Dwayne Bowe's 2008 season? Or Matt Cassel's 2008 season? How can you base Chad Henne being a better QB than Orton and Cassel? You have absolutely nothing to base it on other than you believe he's better. Those guys have put up seasons that say otherwise and they're doing it again this year to prove that claim. KC could have as many as two guys go to the Pro Bowl in Brandon Albert and Will Shields, so to claim their OLine average at best is wrong. Was our OLine average at best the past two years when we were able to run it down people's throats? Of course not. It'd be ridiculous to say such about theirs--including when they hardly give up a sack to boot. Give me Thomas Jones & Jamal Charles over Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams and I'd guarantee that alone would give us another win. I'd be glad to take Chris Kuper and Ryan Clady on our OLine anywhere...they'd fit very nicely on our right side at RG and RT. Denver finds a way to have success because they have a QB that is very good. Say what you want about Orton, but all the guy has done since he's been there the past 2 years is play well. How is it on Henning to combat Chad Henne being able to beat a zone? So those middle of the road guys are worse than Henne, yet do you believe they don't face zones/man coverage or whatever they struggle with? I can assure you the coach is calling plays to beat those looks, but if a guy can't throw against zone coverage, that isn't on the OC. I think the issue you have is what a lot of people have right now. They believe that Henne possess an egregious amount of potential thus placing him on pedestal that hasn't been earned. Chad Henne is the one that needs to make changes. If he can't throw against zone coverage, he needs to be better at that. Dan Henning needs to better too. Again, Dan Henning has other reasons for receiving my ire, but what you listed above I don't agree with.
I saw this thread, started to read, but was soooo aggrevated wit the play calling I went straight to posting. I'm currently in NC on a training mission so I didn't get to see the game, but I had NFL.com up and "watched" it that way. Want a great example of aggrevation? 1st possession in the third quarter: 1st play-HENNE: short pass to the right 2nd play-HENNE: short pass to the right 3rd play-HENNE: short pass to the right 4th play-HENNE: short pass to the right 5th play-HENNE: short pass to the right 6th play-HENNE: short pass to the right---INTERCEPTION Go to the well too many times and sooner or later, you're going to get burned. DAN HENNING SHOULD DIE OF GOHNERREA...or however it's spelled
You're right. Ill concede we may have tried to run another double move and perhaps it just wasn't open. But I'll also say that Henning has been failing to return to successful plays and looks all year long. But Henning has no problem calling plays that DO NOT work over and over. Running plays on 3rd and 8? That's criminal negligence. Why play fake to Polite out of the back field. Does ANYONE not realize that we're not handing Polite the ball? There are simple things you can do to attack cover 2, and I don't doubt that Henning knows them all. But I don't see them on the field. I dont see the seam routes. I don't see the corner routes. I don't see the flat throws to hold the corners. I see Ricky in the game on 3rd down when Ronnie is a much better receiver and open field runner. I see Incognito pulling over and over and not hitting anyone, can we stop with that already? I see Mastrud in the game which is basically playing 10 vs 11. Speaking of 10, I've only had two consolation beers. Gotta finish off this 12 pack in time to avoid a hangover. Cheers.
That isn't the best gauge on what was going on. I mean long pass plays could've been called, Henne missed guys, OLine missing blocks forcing check downs so many things... What that is a good indicator of---where the heck is the run? I mean I watched the game and they were--they were stacking the LOS daring us to throw the ball, but we were still sticking it in there at times and getting 3-4 yards a clip which helps us immensely. On our scoring drive we ran the ball more than we threw it.
Apparently as many as you can when you are Dan Henning. I don't think Sparano has the balls to fire him. That is, even if he has the chance too......Sparano might be fired before Henning.
