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The 2010/2011 MLB Offseason Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Ray Finkle, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Actually no because Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo are highly regarded prospects. The Cubs don't have players of their talents or caliber in their system.

    And yes that's true no major markets were interested in Gonzalez because they either had 1B already (NY, LAA, PHI, STL, CHW etc) or they couldn't afford his extension (CHC, LAD, etc.)

    You might want to recheck Kelly's stats again because he put up very good numbers last year. He only had 1 season with his ERA over 5.00. Again you're simply looking at ERA and automatically thinking he's not a good pitcher or prospect yet fail to realize his youth compared to the rest of the league or his actual talenthi. I'm not saying Kelly had a great year because he didn't but to write off a prospect for one so/so year but not look at his actual ability or talent is just silly. Good thing you never saw Roy Halladay's minor league numbers, you probably would have cut him. You probably wouldn't have thought much of Hanley Ramirez as a prospect either. Sometimes you have to look past the numbers and look at the talents and skills of these guys.

    Just admit that you don't really have a lot of knowledge when it comes to the talent of the prospects the Padres got because hating the trade over an ERA shows ignorance.

    The fact remains that Towers blew the Peavy deal that off season by not trading him then. The package he got for him during the year, even though Peavy was hurt, was still crappy. We've covered Richard numerous times but again he's a product of Petco Park. Russell has pitched a total of 28 innings for the Padres and Aaron Poreda has thrown 2.1 innings last year, none this year. Dexter Carter has yet to make it to Double A at age 23 (can we say bust?). I definitely give him credit for finding a GM dumb enough to pay for his whole contract like Kenny Williams was.

    Hang your hat on Richard all you want for contributing. I guess if the Red Sox traded you Scott Atchison instead you'd be happy because he would have contributed this year? Again the Padres are trying to build a farm system and build for the future (much like both Texas and Tampa Bay had been doing the past few years) for the good of the franchise. Towers left the team with nothing in the system.

    Keith Law quit his front office job with the Blue Jays for various reasons but that doesn't mean he's any less of an expert. He's still worked in more front offices than you and I have combined so I trust his judgment on things especially because he's seen all these players play multiple times and isn't just looking at an ERA to dismiss someone. But even so just look at BA or BP, they're both very high on Kelly and Rizzo.

    Rizzo and Fuentes did make progress from '09 to '10. And I covered Kelly numerous times already, yeah he had a down year but if you want to write off a prospect for 1 bad year be my guest.

    Hey give me credit I got 2 out of 4 right! Actually I was right, I said the Sox would probably turn down a Kelly, Rizzo, Lowrie, Kalish deal.


    I'm not saying the Padres will win 60 games next year but to think they could win 90 games again is a mistake. Even with Gonzalez in their line up I don't think that even get to 85 wins.

    I'd really like to know what trade you'd think would be a smart/fair/possible trade that the Padres could make for 1 year of Adrian Gonzalez.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And you know this..how?



    He is era is now over 6.00 in the Arizona League.

    Put it this way, you mentioned Lowrie back on page #2 or so in this thread, the Padres have no short stop and no second basemen, and yet Hoyer could not manage to land him?

    Odd, pitchers are supposed to improve with more time, he is regressing, the more he pitches the worse he performs.

    And we needed a Short Stop and a 2nd basemen, two things the Red Sox have in Lowrie and Igleseas, and yet, one is trying to blow sunshine up my *** that a pitcher who is not improving, and a 1st basemen are adequate for a all star/gold glove/yearly mvp candidate?

    Put it this way, even "if" Kelly managed to make it to the majors in 2010, he would be a 4th starter and pitch every what 5th day? AG played 150 games at a high level which GM in MLB would trade their MVP candidate for a single starting pitcher?

    Would say, Pujols be moved for say, AJ Burnett?

    Nope.

    And we have Dykstra and Blanks coming up through the system and both play..first base.



    Petco Park, CitiField, wherever, a win is a win.

    Trading a pitcher off of your disabled list is unheard of, having the other team pick up their salary in such a trade is also unheard of, and yet one slings around "fact" as if it were.

    And if Russel and Poreda, who is well thought of, do not pan out, then do explain the logic behind trading for two players who are still in A or AA ball when you need a short stop and second basemen, and the Sox having two guys in AAA ball waiting to play in MLB?

    Hoyer is in over his head and he has turned a 90 win team into the montreal expos of the late 90's.



    Funny, do the names Shawn Abner, Stan Jefferson and Jimmy Jones ring any bells?

    Yeah, Fuentes made the jump from the pioneer league all the way up to A ball, or was that extended spring training?



    Hoyer screwed the pooch, and credit where it is due, you did get 2 right, but also came up two short, Fuentes and a PTBNL are not even close to what was needed, who knew this guy would cut such a sweetheart deal for his old employers?

    Not even you could forsee it, what does that say about this trade?




    More to the point, AG was the only draw the padres had, and even then attendance was not great, now that dolt has not only moved AG (which was a proper baseball decision) but he screwed the Franchise in the process.

    They are now the San Diego Expos, a crappy team full of players scouts love but couldn't play baseball well enough to win games, but gee, Hoyer will have the #1 overall in 2011!

    I would have to be in the GM's office and field the phone calls, but no doubt first thing I'd do is take Epstein off of speed dial.
     
  3. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Because I actually know the prospects in the Cubs system and obviously know the prospects in the Red Sox system. Not only that but Jim Callis (BA) and Kevin Goldstein (BP) both said today on Twitter that the Sox package was better than anything the Cubs could have offered.

    Ok so now you're basing your opinion on 16 innings? Never heard of a small sample size? That comment right there shows you lost the argument. He had 1 terrible start that threw his numbers way off.

    Maybe it's possible Hoyer didn't want/like him.

    Again if you want to write off a pitcher for 1 so/so year and 1 bad game in AFL be my guest. But again you're failing to look at his talent. And yes age and experience has something to do with it too.

    Also players aren't allowed to have bad/off years? All of a sudden they're regressing? If he has another bad year then it's cause for concern but to say he's regressing off of 1 year is silly. Even the best players in the game have off years.

    Well if it was only Kelly you'd have a point but there are 3 other guys involved in the trade. It's not a 1 for 1.

    Again there are 3 other players involved in the trade that you fail to mention so you're bringing up something that's irrelevant since it's a 4 for 1.

    Of course not but Nick Swisher wouldn't be traded for Roy Halladay either. Don't see your point there.

    HAHA, you're actually bringing up Dykstra's name but complaining that Casey Kelly is regressing? You mean Dykstra, the 23 year old in single A (which is extremely old for an A ball player) putting up a .235/.388/.407/.794 line in the minors so far in his career? Yeah he's a future Independent leaguer alright. He's a non prospect. I like Blanks though, he's got a ton of power but he's bad defensively, something Rizzo is good at as well as hitting. Again Blanks can play the OF too if need be.

    That's all well in good but the fact is the players he got back aren't very good. But I did give him credit just getting rid of that contract (of course you have to take away some credit for giving Peavy that deal in the first place).

    Which two players the Sox have in Triple A waiting to play in the MLB? Lowrie is on the MLB roster and Iglesias never made it to Triple A. The logic behind it is trying to build the franchise up, we went over this.

    Last year was a fluke. With Gonzalez on their team they weren't likely to win 90 games again. But I love it you don't give Hoyer any credit for last year's team but all of sudden say he's in over his head?

    Yes but I'm not sure what's funny. Not sure your point. Some prospects don't pan out. Some do. Some MLBers don't pan out. Some do. Baseball is a hard game. This stuff isn't new. Of course bringing up players that played in the 80s is kind of puzzling.

    He was drafted in 2009 out of high school. He jumped from Rookie League in 2009 to A ball in 2010. He's 19 years old, he's following the path of just about every normal 19 year old player that gets drafted. If/when he's 23 and still in A ball then let's talk. Oh wait that's Dystra, who needs Rizzo right?

    Again I do find it funny you think Hoyer would automatically give former employees a sweetheart deal. Maybe it was their best offer. Did you ever think about that?

    Not sure how to answer that, I'm not a professional nor do I have much inside information on the offers/talks it was just my opinion. I don't know what was discussed, who was off limits and what players Hoyer liked/disliked.

    Oh please don't give me that attendance crap, they weren't drawing well even with him. With a week left in the season and the team fighting for a playoff spot (the team was either a game in 1st or a game out of 1st) they couldn't even sell out. And bottom line is Gonzalez was gone after the 2011 season anyway. Would you blame Hoyer if he kept Gonzalez and let him walk because they couldn't afford him anyway?

    Name even 10 players on the Padres that scouts actually love from last year's team and you could include Gonzalez, Latos and Heath Bell. They were a crappy team last year too that lucked out to win 90 games.

    From your comments on the way you view players you wouldn't be in that office long enough to make a speed dial list. You would, however, be extremely popular with the other GMs trying to make trades with you. But you do bring up a good point, you don't know the offers that were made from other teams or which players Hoyer targeted etc.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If one recalls, the Yankees signed ARod when they already had Jeter.

    A pitcher who is regressing, a first basemen when SD already have 3 in the minors and who is coming off of cancer treatment and a A ball outfielder?

    speaks for itself.


    The trend is fairly clear there Ray.



    The GM of the Expos' opinion seems a bit shakey at this point in time.



    Tell me again why you trade a MVP caliber first basement for such a pitcher?

    Oh, that's right, scouts say "he generates swings and misses (at A ball levels)"

    Why take a chance when you are moving the face of the franchise? That is bad GM work on the Expos behalf.




    How often to prospects bust out again?


    An A Ball outfielder and a PTBNL for a poor man's Louis Puljos, they are not worth mentioning.



    Hmm odd I thought you were baseball savvy? Basically unless Kelly and his 6.00 era manage to become an ace type pitcher, he does not bring enough value to be the centerpiece of this trade, why would you trade a MVP caliber player for a #4 starting pitcher?

    Which is the poor gamble Hoyer took.



    Dykstra has been injured even then, he never had cancer.




    Eh, Peavy was coming off of a Cy Young type of season and had been good up until the ankle injury he was worth the contract, and once again, that is the problem of trading a All Star player for purely minor leaguers, exactly what Hoyer has done.



    Kelly should have been the #2 or #3 guy in this deal, Fuentes is fine as the #4 player, but #1 should have been a major leaguer even if that means Lowrie, then either Iglsias or Pimentel, instead Hoyer settled for 2 A Ball players.



    You are what your record says you are, Hoyer has regressed the team from any expectation of finishing close to 90 wins this season.



    All the more reason not to take such a gamble on a trading a player without garnering a single proven major league talent we have been over this...



    Or Blanks or Durango or...



    Then he should have kept AG and played the season with him? There was that option and then simply have enough confidence to hit on the compensatory picks..why give him away?

    Unless of course Hoyer felt obligated.



    Hoyer and his staff will be a large percentage of the attendees at most padres games this year, maybe they can chat things out in the empty stadium whilst watching his Triple A team take the field.


    No surprise, what stat heads are missing is Baseball is a Star and Relationship driven sport, when the fans no longer trust that there stars will be there, or that the organization is committed to winning, they stay home

    Blame Hoyer for letting AG walk at the end of the year? Nope, when a trade is bad you walk away from it, you do not push it and try and make something out of nothing by bottom fishing for A ball players, that is foolish and poor Gm work.

    Show me a single scout who has one a pennant and I'll answer your question..

    A. what is this "you" were you in Hoyers' office as well?
    B. Nope, most baseball trades of vets for minor leaguers turn out terribly for the trading team, the proven player continues their high level of play, th minor leaguers typically stay in the minors or never make the jump successfully, odd there is no stat for that one..watched baseball long enough to know how they typically turn out..

    I do not expect Hoyer to last in San Diego very long.
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Because he said he would move to 3rd base. Where is Adrian Gonzalez going to move to? He's glove is too valuable as a DH so it would make little sense to pay him the money he is going to command there as a DH since his glove being in so much value. Terrible point here.

    Ok again it shows you're lost. Rizzo has been cancer free for over a year and a half and put up big numbers at age 20 in Double A (again which is extremely young for the league). But you keep failing to see that.

    Again you're knocking Casey Kelly for him 'regressing' yet you're upset about losing David Eckstein, Chris Young, the Hairstons etc?



    Again it's 16 innings! You're going to base this on 16 innings in the AFL to write him off? It was 1 terrible start that threw his numbers off. Unreal.


    But his team won 90 games last year right?


    Casey Kelly has 3 plus pitches (FB, curveball and change up), he has good command, control and feel for pitching. He has the ability to be an ace in the pitching staff. That's why he was included in the deal. He's a very good prospect. You fail to realize that because you won't take time to actually read up on him and instead you look at his ERA which isn't the best way to judge a pitcher's performance and 16 innings in a AFL.


    Because maybe he and his staff have seen Kelly pitch in the minors and see his talents and just aren't looking at a number.

    Every prospect is different so it's tough to say/


    Yeah the PTBNL is probably not worth mentioning but Fuentes becomes your #4 or #5 prospect in your system so as bad as you think he is how does that make your franchise look? They don't have talent in the minors. Small market teams need to build up a system in order to compete. That's what Tampa Bay and Texas did and what Hoyer is trying to do now. The worst thing that happened to the franchise was winning 90 games last year and giving people false hope.

    Someone who bases part of an argument on 16 innings shouldn't question someone else's baseball savvy. For the last time you're simply looking at numbers and not the talent.


    Dykstra played 113 games last year compared to Rizzo's 136, Rizzo's numbers still crush Dykstra's. Dykstra is also 23 years old in A ball, Rizzo is 20 in Double A. Big difference. Rizzo > Dykstra.

    And Rizzo is cancer free now. Would you not take Jon Lester because he had cancer once too? If Rizzo still had the disease you'd have a point but he's cancer free. Your arguements are getting sillier. Not sure how much more I can take.

    But hey at least Dykstra could buy beer for Fuentes and the rest of his team in Single A next year, so that's a plus. Team bounding time!


    You do realize Casey Kelly is a top 25 prospect in all of baseball right? He's a better prospect than any of those guys you mentioned. And I guarantee you you have no idea about Pimentel outside of me mentioning him earlier in this thread. It's especially funny you're mad because you got a couple of A ballers when in fact Pimentel pitched all year in A ball.

    If Hoyer kept Gonzalez and got little to nothing for him at the trade deadline or let him walk at the end of the year for picks you'd be killing him. He's in a no win situation for the fans perspective.


    I know and you still don't understand about building up the franchise and system.



    No because you run the risk of getting players in the draft who aren't as good as Kelly, Rizzo etc. Plus those guys are closer to being MLB ready. Plus you need to be able to sign the draft picks too which is no guarantee. Look what happened to SD's 1st round pick this year.


    Wait you're knocking stat heads yet hating on Kelly because of stats. Another argument lost.

    This is your opinion on the trade. Almost all the experts think SD got a nice return.


    The silliness continues. You don't think scouts help a team build a championship? Do you think a GM or the front office sees every single MLB, minor league, college, high school and foreign player play? That's why they have a team of scouts, a scouting director etc.

    Nice way of switching around my question because SD doesn't have a lot of talented players.


    Nope I wasn't in Hoyer's office but I also know about the players he got, unlike you.

    Look this is getting silly now. Come back with some better arguments or points and we can debate this further. Because right now it's just a lot of noise. You don't like the prospects Hoyer got, that's fine. Let's wait and see how they pan out before we kill this deal. Until then I'm done with this unless you can bring something different or new to the table.
     
  6. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Multi quote war lol
     
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  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not really the facts are what they are, the joke in SD is:

    "Hoyer got bent over by Epstein, and there was no lube involved, the Padres couldn't afford to buy any"

    He has created the San Diego Expos and screwed the franchise for at least 3 seasons via incompetence, and perhaps collusion.
     
  8. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Pad's you may have a chance to revisit all this....
     
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  9. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Salt on the wounds....

    Jayson Werth is nearing a deal with the Nationals, reports Todd Zolecki of MLB.com. This certainly comes out of left field, though the Nationals do have money to spend and a hole in the middle of the lineup created by Adam Dunn's departure to the White Sox. The Red Sox and Tigers reportedly had the most interest in Werth, but Washington has apparently swooped in and wowed Werth's agent Scott Boras.

    official...
    NATIONALS ACQUIRE OUTFIELDER JAYSON WERTH
    Washington Nationals Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations and General Manager Mike Rizzo announced today that the Nationals have agreed to terms with free agent outfielder Jayson Werth. Nationals reach seven-year, $126M deal with Jayson Werth
     
  10. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    7 years/$126 million for Werth. Yeesh!

    Somewhere in Texas, Carl Crawford is smiling.
     
  11. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Crawford was always going to get his...but sure.

    I know for one thing, as of right now, EVERYWHERE Yankees fans are Smiling!
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    TBH, AG SHOULD go to the Red Sox, but the package of players was terrible, imho Selig should have voided that trade.

    Add a SS or 2nd basemen who can play quickly, and it tilts back to "good deal", the money problems have not went away, but the deal itself was just poor, the BoSox need Gonzo, Gonzo needs them, get it done but enough of the assault on the Franchise itself, Hoyer messed up and I would be more than happy to see a reboot of the deal.

    BoSox would be nuts not to offer AG a 5 yr 110 million dollar deal, 20 millie per yr is about right from the BoSox standpoint as NL to AL crossovers sometimes do not pan out, the BoSox have a legit interest in protecting themselves by having a bulge in the payroll, let AG earn better money this year, but in 011 there should be an option to pick him up or not.

    Strictly my .02

    That and AG is such a class act, I have to wonder if he has second thoughts about leaving SD? Tony Gwynn went so far as to tell the MLB PA to **** themselves because they did not like his contract...
     
  13. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Worst deal for the next 7 years.
     
  14. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The questions is a big one facing SD....do they still try to trade him; if so, do they use this 3some as the measuring stick...do they demand more...do they get less (especially if AG has HIGH demands for working long term deal). Does the market work better to AG if no trade happens and he is 100% FA? Lots of interesting turns.

    I dont know what his demands are...but for Sox to not work it out....I would think he is asking well beyond Teixiera/Howard terms or creating a NEW HIGH water mark?? I have heard everything from 5yr 125M type range, to 8yrs....with Sox offering 6yrs...but dont know what to make of this.

    But I am happy....and Werth wont be patrolling fenway....

    Now, do SOX overpay long term deal for Beltre??? He has only produced in "contract years", long term deal could be BIG RISK.
     
  15. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    That's just a massive overpay - $18 million AAV through his 38th birthday. That contract is going to be Mike Hampton-level bad.

    It effectively takes the Sox out of the Crawford market. There's absolutely no chance that Theo fronts that kind of coin for Carl Crawford.

    This offseason has taken a turn for the worse rather dramatically over the last 24 hours. :lol:
     
  16. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    well that depends on perspective....:wink2:
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Depends on hoyer's vision for the team, if they are to be a Pitching/Defense/Speed team, you still need that RBI machine in the lineup, ala Jack Clark, Guerrero, Herr, if he plans on youngsters showing power but striking out often, or whatever mix he has in mind, Hoyer is doing no one any favors by not speaking philosophically about his vision for the team.

    Not in a payroll sense, but Hoyer has to get the fans to understand what he is working towards imho.
     
  18. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Truth be told BDH, I won't start getting worried about the 2011 season until Beltre signs elsewhere. I think the team, as currently constructed, even considering the departure of VMart, is plently good enough to compete for the pennant and, with a little luck, the WS.

    That said, if and when Beltre walks -- its time to mash on that panic button.
     
  19. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Hmmmmm....getting him under wraps this year sure seems like the safer bet...anything can happen when he hits FA. Its a gamble...but if he was seeking an equal deal like Tex 8/180....I find it somewhat surprising Sox didnt just say yes, and move on.
     
  20. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Unbelievable. 7/127?!? Un-freakin-real.
     
  21. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Also, Padre, if SD let's Gonzo walk, will you be upset? I understand you weren't happy with the deal but it's hard for the Pads to demand more with zero leverage. Everyone knows he's going to walk.
     
  22. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Red Sox to get Adrian Gonzalez after all


    fun while it lasted.....

     
  23. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Right in line so far...LOL

    John Buck, who received a $2 million deal last winter, got three years and $18 million from the Marlins.
    Setup man Joaquin Benoit received a three-year, $16.5 million contract from the Tigers.
    Juan Uribe, who certainly wasn’t offered any multiyear contracts as a free agent both of the previous two winters, received $21 million over three years from the Dodgers.
     
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  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    So? Let him walk, beats screwing the fanbase with a bad trade.
     
  25. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The Journal-Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt reports that the Brewers are close to acquiring Shaun Marcum from the Blue Jays for prospects.

    These prospects could be part of a package heading to KC if they can convince Grienke to head to TOR
     
  26. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Wow a lot happened after I blacked out around 2:30pm and just woke up. Anyway I posted this in the Sox thread so I'll just repost this here: I fully expect the Red Sox and Gonzalez to announce a contract extension the first week of April to avoid the luxury tax for 2011. With over 40 million off the table at the end of the year between Drew, Ortiz, Wakefield, Papelbon, Cameron and Scutaro it makes sense to wait until the start of the season (like they did with Beckett this past year). The main hold up was the Sox wanted to both avoid the luxury tax for this year and also make sure they could come to an agreement with Gonzalez. Multiple people are reporting a deal is in place but won't be signed until the season starts. I think Heyman even has in his column 7 year extension for 23 million per year was agreed on.

    It was such a strange afternoon though but I'm glad it's over and glad Gonzalez is on the team. The Sox front office must be extremely confident in getting an extension for them to give up such high quality prospects for possibly only 1 year of Gonzalez, that wouldn't make sense.
     
  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    On the Werth deal, first off I'm glad a small market team signed someone to a big contract. Now it stops, at least for the time being, people whining that there should be a cap etc. Or that only the big market teams are able to sign FAs. But honestly what the hell was Washington thinking? I think the next best offer was from the Red Sox and they only offered him 4/15 I believe. Good for Werth though and honestly is there anyone better at his job than Scott Boras?

    Crawford probably is headed to the Angels, Yankees or Rangers now. I can't see the Red Sox giving him 8/20 now that Gonzalez is on board. I think Crawford is an extremely good baseball player but he's not worth 20 million per. I would love it if somehow Theo traded for Upton but I don't think there's a chance that happens either.
     
  28. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    What recession?
     
  29. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    That is terrible terrible logic.
     
  30. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Is Washington really considered small market? Pretty sure they aren't.

    Baseball Almanac considers them 8th.

    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/baseball_markets.shtml
     
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  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ipsa re loquitur dude, Baseball is in the only industry that is run by people who truly do believe they can **** on fans and expect them to come back based on scouting reports.
     
  32. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I just can't agree with this.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Teams that contend, then make blatant moves to hinder contending:

    -Marlins
    -Indians
    -Padres

    Not sure about the Brewers, but they see empty stadiums when those moves are made, listen to fmr marlins fans, to this day they do not trust the franchise and that is not limited to the marlins, why invest time and caring into a team that is going to screw you for your effort?
     
  34. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm a Marlins fan. We as a collective fan base only showed up during playoffs. We didn't come for the two full years after we won the World flippin Series despite keeping the same team and adding Carlos Delgado. Please tell me, besides trading Miguel Cabrera (which was done out of necessity,) what moves do we make to blatant hinder contention?
     
  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Recall what happened after the 97 Ws win?
     
  36. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Which is relevant how? Took place over a decade ago. Completely different front office and ownership group.
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Do you really think fans don't remember it?
     
  38. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm sure they do. Fans probably don't come to Dolphins games either because Jimmy Johnson is an overpaid baffoon.
     
  39. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The Brewers traded second base prospect Brett Lawrie to Toronto for Shawn Marcum. While Lawrie is technically the Brewers’ top prospect, some people I was talking to last night were less-than-impressed with him, believing him to be a head case and, frankly, not as good as some of the prospect-ranking types think he is.
     
  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Actually Dolphins attendance under Saban was 70k, since then it has dropped into the 50's.
     

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