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What Hyde has right about Parcells time in Miami

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/spo...g/2010/11/hyde_parcells_is_what_espn_doc.html

    "..the Dolphins have infrastructure, they don't have playmakers..."

    Agree with him about Ireland and Sparano as well, love the job that both of them are doing, think their paranoia is counter productive in what essentially is a personality and performance entertainment industry.
     
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  2. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    They do need more speed. And they need to teach the defense to catch footballs thrown to them. In hindsight I think the people who said Ginn should have been kept around so we'd have a deep threat were right. I think trading him was a mistake, despite how collosally disappointing he usually was. He was at least fast. Somebody would have to account for him sprinting down the field.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well it just has stuck with me how they jettisoned Pat White so quickly, this was supposed to be the Wildcat 2.0 guy, and they invest heavily into the concept, then just do a 180 degree turn, and say "he has prove he is a NFL Qb", then waived him and did not bother to replace him.

    They could have easily taken Joe Webb in the 6th rd, stuck him in the same role ala Brad Smith, instead it just became "we won't talk about it", if you were expecting big plays from the WC 2.0 one year, why is it scrapped the next season, where were the explosive plays supposed to come from logically speaking?

    If one says "base offense" okay, who? R+R are good Rb's but not home run hitting type of backs, Hartline is good but not Desean Jackson like, why no Te who can threaten the seam of the defense?

    That's why I agree with Hyde, we have great infrastructure, very few who can be described as playmakers.
     
  4. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    He was also worth keeping around seeings we have a senile old **** of an offensive coordinator who loves calling end arounds at inopportune times. And that's something Ginn was good at.
     
  5. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    so i guess hyde has written off henne. the problem with the anti-media approach is that when there are losses, the fanbase has nothing to support you with and will turn on you. most of the time when tony does talk, i have no idea what he is saying. its true about ireland. we really know nothing about him. maybe we really dont need to. idk. the coach is different i think
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am extremely disappointed and slightly disgusted that Parcells' did not stick around to see this team through, I just cannot understand that competetive philosophy, however, this has always been a 4 year plan for me from the get, ive never once said from the beginning, or this year, that this year was the year for expectations, not considering what was inherited 3 years ago, and for sparano to have winning record after what he had to begin with, he has that 4th year to show me is the chosen one..

    I do believe in Tony Sparano, and I think he needs to find the offensive coordinator that fits with his philosophy of what kind of team he wants us to be..

    Irish's first year on his own, is pivotal for the fate of both disciples..
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Deej, come on now, even when he was hired it was understood he would go ghost before his contract was completed, that is his nature.

    What bothers me is we are in mid November, and we are once again having Oline problems.

    And the the vacating of your multi level offensive theory like a bad habit, that one still has me head scratching.

    Who knows though, over the last 3 seasons one thing I have learned is Jeff Ireland can find some players, though I am a bit tired of the search year after year.
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its why iam teetering on caling him a P.O.S and finding a new avatar..

    Iam trying to figure out in his mind what his intent was when taking the job, obviously his goal was not to prove that he could build a champion, I guess it was just to bless us with his hiring skill's...

    I tell you what, if I met him in person, I wouldn't be gushing, i'd wanna know how could one take a job without seeing it through, whats your fuc$#ng motivation.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Was wondering about that Deej.


    Training wheels have to come off sooner or later, Pappa Bill won't be there forever, we all knew it.

    Pique?

    He is like any contractor Deej, once there gone they are gone.

    What bothers me is maybe losing some cache with Free Agents, Dansby mentioned him by name when he signed here.

    Should be a fun 6 games to watch Deej, one way or another.

    Here is the deal to me:

    -Peterson on the sidelines was the end of the Tuna era.

    -Sparano is supposed to be a Oline guru, how he handles the problems will reflect directly on him imho.

    -Will the road warriors re-appear? Sparano has his hands full and we have no idea if Henne will be in the game, or Thigpen.

    I agree with Hyde pointing out that maybe Irish and Sparano are not well served by hiding from the media ala Parcells.
     
  10. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    DJ you should have been over Parcells when we heard the word consultant.
    Ross still pays him.
     
  11. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I am really down on Parcells.He sticks around while he has a chance at getting accolades and he bails when the team and staff he assembled starts to fall apart.

    That way he can claim he established the structure for success and it was not his fault that the team was not able to exploit the structure.In effect he is leaving Ireland and Sparano twisting in the wind.

    Believe me he would still be around if he thought this team was going anywhere.

    If you notice he likes to take over teams that had previous losing seasons .In the Dolphins case he was taking over a team that had a 1-16 record.

    Even Wanny could have improved on that record.

    When he distanced himself from the Pat White pick when it was obvious that he had his handprints all over the pick, I had a feeling he was starting to bail out .

    He made so many mistakes in personnel and coaching evaluations that he set up this team for failure.I pity the next owner who hires him as their saviour.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Kind of interesting CT, if you look at what happens in Miami, things seem to be binary.

    What I mean by that is 1 and 1, 1 bad and 1 good, or 1 good and 1 bad.

    For example, this year

    w/w/l/l/w/l/w/l/w/l

    Even the yr White was drafted

    Davis/White/Smith/Turner

    It seems like the Dolphins never could find the consistency that was so often preached about, how much of that has do to Parcells?

    Don't know, I do think "officially" leaving does put the ball in Ireland and Sparano's court, my only question is this similar to when he left the Cowboys, or when he left the Jets?
     
  13. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Parcells selected the GM and coaching staff thus he is responsible for their effectiveness.He is being payed handsomely to make those evaluations.He cannot distance himself from that .

    It has become apparent that those choices were not based on their performance or their potential.

    IMO it was based on cronnyism and people he trusted and wanted to help in their careers .

    Let put it this way.Would Sparano be a HC right now and would Ireland be a GM right now without Parcells help ?
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Apparent..how?

    Ireland would, he was Jones Assistant GM in Dallas and they have not drafted very well since he left, Sparano, that is another question, since no one here has access to NFL lounges who can say how he was viewed in 2008?
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    hey crunch, Mortjust reports that Ross and Parcells are becoming good friends and that Parcells is embracing his consultant role.
     
  16. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I dont know if thats good but I need to be convinced we are heading in the right direction .If he sticks around its a good sign.Then again we may be stuck with Henning .
     
  17. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Quick question ( meaning I am asking without researching a bit ) what teams are winning without playmakers on both sides of the ball? To me that is part of the Parcells influence , kind of that stubborn I did it before this way , I can do it again .

    The league isn't built that way , if , like Miami , you don't have many consistent playmakers you need to be close to perfect to win if you are built that way.

    We were perfect once , that isn't happening again though.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yep, which in hindsight was born out with the move out of the #12 to the #28 to pick Odrick, now "if" the Dline pumps up in 2011 with Odrick and Merling's return then it can be said "infrastructure" worked, if not, and you have only a few playmakers, then you will be a mediocre team barring consistently perfect performance..and no team can expect that sort of production week in and week out.
     
  19. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Comparing the talent on the Dolphins, Jets, and Patriots, right now. If Dolphin fans are truly honest with themselves. They would have to agree that both the Jets and the Patriots have done a much better job at selecting players who can get their team to the playoffs. Going forward. It appears that with the present regime in place. The Dolphins will continue to trail both the Jets and the Patriots in the standings for the next several years. Some on here are willing to stay with the status quo and give Sparano and Ireland a few more years to see if they can turn this team around. My concern is that if Sparano and Ireland are allowed to stay. The Dolphins just might be looking up in the standings in their division at not only the Jets and the Patriots in a few years. They may also be looking up and seeing the Bills ahead of them also. Parcells quit because he was smart enough to see where this team was headed. He got out early and hoped that fans would blame Ireland and Sparano. He hired both these men and he was responsible for the selection of players on this team. So it is Parcells who is responsible for the mediocre team he left behind. Another one or two years with Ireland and Sparano is not going to change the Dolphins for the better. The owner needs to get rid of both Ireland and Sparano and bring in someone who knows how to win in the NFL today. Parcells was living in the past in trying to build this team.
    He did a lousy job and anyone willing to look at this team in an objective manner will see this.
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    its a great sign because it would of played out just like I thought it would, {he does care} instead, we get the disgusting media who disgraces him and us with ridiculous speculation..
     
  21. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Just like Jimmy Johnson at the end of his coaching career. Parcells came to the Dolphins when the game had past him by. He tried to build a team based on the model he used over twenty years ago to win the Super Bowl. He failed to factor in that the game today is about speed and offensive production. While the defense is basically sound. Parcells put together an inconsistent offensive line. He did nothing to upgrade the running back position or the tight end position. While he did trade for Marshall. He left the Dolphins with no wide receiver who can threaten opposing defenses down the field. Last but certainly not least. He tried to convince us that he didn't need to draft Matt Ryan because he told us that Chad Henne would be just as good as Ryan. Once Parcells realized that the Dolphins are still years from getting this thing turned around. He cleared out his office and left Sparano and Ireland to take the heat for his failure. So I blame Parcells for the state of the Dolphins today. Granted they are better than the 1-15 team he inherited. Now they have at least reached the level of being a team that can not beat good teams but can at least play even with all the other mediocre teams in the league. If I had to grade Parcells on his efforts to rebuild the Dolphins. He would receive no higher than a(D) from me.
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That doesn't make sense. It is nothing like Jimmy Johnson.
     
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  23. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    No he makes sense, its just that its nothing like Jimmy. But everything he says is the truth. I was worried about Parcells when he said he wanted to mold this team into a physical team that runs the ball. That is what the NFL was 20 years ago, but not now.
     
  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Edit - deleted post.
     
  25. m ino

    m ino New Member

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    can't get much more open than hartline was today.hartline had an easy 4 steps on the defender and plain underthrew him.there was another pass to the endzone that our reciever had his man beat yet henne overthrwe that one.way too inconsistant from our qb.wouldn't matter if bolt(the sprint star) was lined up at reciever when your qb is so errattic.i do agree we need speed but at the running back position..(cough..noel devine?..couch).all of our backs are big bruiser type backs who lack brekaway speed.i like big power backs but we need that change of pace speed guy who is a threat to score every time he has his hands on the ball.
     
  26. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But who is responsible for Henne being the QB he's been around for 3 years and they should have a better feel for what they have, so he goes and gets Pat and Thig wtf.
    Parcells has full responsibility for where this team is at and nobody holds him accountable, on the contrary the NFL Network does a documentary on his great career as he becomes a consultant and runs away from his mess.
     
  27. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    While one can argue the Parcells model doesn't work, or needs to be tweaked, the fact is the Dolphins really haven't actually built the model yet!

    Do the Dolphins have a physically dominant OL? No, not even close.

    Do they have a physically punishing running game? No.

    Do they have a big, physical pass catching TE? No.

    Has the QB position been relatively mistake free? No.

    Now, one can fault the personnel moves (indeed the White & Turner selections were horrific), but Hyde's point, in essence, "that the model doesn't work" - is really not clear b/c the model isn't there yet.

    Their D front 7 has been good this year but they still need an ILB.

    Right now it's not looking very good and the Dolphins have given up so much in draft choices ... consider this:

    The 6-6 Dolphins have only 2 selections (a 1st and a 3rd) in next year's first three rounds. The 10-2 Patriots have 6 selections (2 in each round) in the first three rounds. And, in the first and 3rd, they have selections ahead of the Dolphins picks (as of right now). Furthermore, they have the top pick at the start of the 2nd round!

    There is no doubt there needs to be some coaching changes at the OC position. But, let's face it, though there have been some good moves here and there for Miami in the personnel department, generally there have been far too many misses and gambles that have failed. And, now, the prospects for shoring up the talent next year - or into the next 2-3 seasons - just looks bad.

    They have more targets than bullets. And their top rival in the division has more bullets than targets needed to hit.
     
  28. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    I think he meant in terms of jimmy trying to mold a Marino-led passing team into the run oriented early 90s DAL teams. That's they way I won before so I'll win again with the same formula type of thinking. It clearly was a bad decision. Jimmy & parcells are incapable of adjusting.
     

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