Its such and easy answer.....duh...we need to draft a QB!!!

If you had 3 picks in 3 weeks Haden going against our #1 Hartline, wouldn't you play him man more often too? That seems like an unfair matchup from the get-go IMO. Then add in Wallace and Moore; those are basically 2 more mismatches when facing veterans Sheldon Brown or Mike Adams. I'd say Fasano was "even up" in how well he rates..... Ronnie and Ricky were barely "even up"..... and Bess was "even up" if not a hair more...... and that's it. ("Even-up" meaning: matching up evenly against your competition).

We had:
1 skill player in the passing game who was "possibly" slighty more than even-up in the mismatch department (Bess).
1 guy who "was" even-up IMO. (Fasano)
2 guys who were barely even-up.... if that IMO. (R & R).
3 guys who were clearly outmatched (Hart, Moore, Wallace).
1 guy who posed no mismatch problem or needed to be game-planned for b/c our #2 TE is non-existent.

All combined, this is setting a QB up for failure IMO. It's like giving the other team a handicap. There's only so much a QB can do when the players he has to work with are less talented than his opponent's IMO.

You don't see these same type of "match-up" experiences with the Saints, Ravens, Falcons, Colts, Steelers, Jets, Patriots, Eagles, Giants, Chiefs, Raiders, Chargers, Texans, Bucs, Cowboys, Packers, Bears, Vikes.... and even 2-10 Lions & Bengals.

 

Sorry, maybe I said that wrong. He was indeed sitting back in a zone. However, at the snap he is sitting on the far hash, the hash hartline and only hartline was on. He dropped straight back, so while he may have been in zone he was essentially doubling hartline...As for if the catch is made it's the safety vs Hartline in the open field Hartline full sprint ahead...I agree, I'd think he would have scored.

 

Sorry, dude, but you're simply ignoring the fact that Hartline had Haden beat square and fair and Henne simply delivered a turd. That's the opposite to setting a QB up for failure: He had to make an easy throw to a wide open WR and he simply did not.

 

Yeah, misunderstanding. No worries, mate. We saw the same thing.

 

The play was there to be had. There's no debating that.

 

easy throw? he was on left hash, throwing down right sideline on a gusty afternoon......it was windy all day. not saying he couldnt get it there, just think saying its "easy" is a mistake.

 

Yes. Henne didn't have to fit that ball into a window or anything. All he had to do was lead Hartline. That is an easy throw by NFL standards, wind or no wind. It was simply underthrown by a mile.

 

Kolb "looks" better than Henne b/c he has a ridiculous arsenal to work with. Things get a LOT easier when you have speed and big play threats all over the field who gain chunk yards and consistently offer better separation.

Bring Kolb here with this cast (w/o Marshall) and he'll look like a pile of doodie.
His windows of opportunity will shrink.
4 steps of separation become 1.
His dual vertical threats---- gone.
His speedy outlet RB---- gone.
His margin for error--- greatly reduced.
His ground game that opens up b/c of the respect of the pass---- reduced.
The balance in his offense (defenses having to respect run, pass, and every part of the field) b/c of all the weapons---- greatly reduced.
His better playcalling/OC---- gone.

I'm sorry...... but the OC still needs to go and the skill positions need to be upgraded before we tinker with QB. Bring in anyone not named Brady, Brees, or Manning, and we'll watch them flounder too (but even those 3 would have some problems).

 

The only thing that would have caused him to underthrow that bad was that he wasn't able to fully follow throw with his body. The ball left his hand at the 18 yard line and came down at the Browns 40. That's a 42 yard throw without being able to follow through.

 

This is what is so frustrating to me. This just wreaks of rationalization and excuse making to me. You're seriously going to say the reason why Chad Henne is so inaccurate throwing the ball deep is because he doesn't do it enough? I'm sure he doesn't get any reps in practice at all. Brian Hartline was so WIDE open that even a SLIGHTLY underthrown ball gets that a catch. Hartline has been able to get deep a few times this season and we haven't been able to get him the ball.

Please take a look at that play on NFL.com and tell me that you're not trying to put some blame on Brian Hartline there. I mean it's just not even warranted.

No need to be an apologist for his play. I understand you want the guy to succeed and believe in him. I want him to succeed. I want him to be the guy. He has some potential. But, I'm not going to make any excuses for how badly the guy played today. He absolutely killed us. He missed open receivers all game long and had serious issues being able to read the zone coverages being thrown his way.

 

And hartline could have made it an incompletion... he borders on the whine/pout look to me.

 

I agree that having those skill players would be nice. And I think Marty Mornhinweg does a real fine job calling a game over there. However, if Chad Henne just makes some throws that mediocre QBs make...we win the game. Heck, even with his crappy game, we do a better job blocking on a FG attempt we win the game. We have some fine skill players here. I think our WR core is really good--when Brandon Marshall plays.

You act as if we are completely devoid of talent and our OC is a complete monkey. You bring in half of the QBs in the NFL and we win today's game. Chad Henne didn't play well. He'll bounce back because I believe he's a competitive SOB and he usually doesn't suffer two down weeks in a row.

 

I agree. People talk about these windows he has to thrown into etc. Hartline had 4 YARDS ON HIM. That's a mile in the NFL. To say Brian Hartline has any fault in this or that it isn't on Henne is borderline insane.

We're not even talking about the brutal 2nd INT he had either.

 

Hart "did" have him beat..... but who came down with the ball? He had as much opportunity to go after it as Haden did, but he was outplayed. There are plenty of times when QBs' throws come up short, but in 1 on 1 coverage, a quality #1 should be able to make a play on the ball (if not, at least become a DB and break it up). Does Haden take the ball way from Marshall or some of the other #1 WRs (or experienced vets) who can adjust to the ball?

It's sad when we have to even discuss this b/c Hartline is elevated by default to being our ONLY boundary receiver..... and I can't even say "legit boundary receiver" at that b/c he's had his share of problems. Moore and Wallace are boundary WR's; they're practice guys playing on Sunday b/c there's no talent in front of them to make sure they stay on the PS.

Think about it: a 2nd year inconsistent Hartline & 2 Rookie Free Agents practice squad guys are our boundary receivers. That's it. How are you supposed to pass well with that? How does an offense run efficiently with that? How does that not affect a QB?

 

C'mon, mate. You're reaching. By about as much as Henne underthrew that ball. As much opportunity? No, not at all. Not even close.

 

you didnt even mention the oline. Hell I thought Shaun Rogers was wearing a Dolphins jersey by the end of the game. which is why to me the problem is personnel and not coaching. i want an all offense draft like we had an all defense draft last year.

 

Please tell me how this is Brian Hartline's fault? I mean are we really trying to compensate for Henne that much? He had a bad game. He knows it. We know it. He'll bounce back and I believe the guy can still be it. However, I'm not going to try and make an excuse for the guy on this play. This was 100% his fault for not recognizing it, getting the ball out earlier, giving him a throw where he has the chance to make a play on it, etc. It was all-around poor from Chad.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ca54e7/Haden-INT

 

gotta agree with the others here. thats a gimme throw. you only get a couple of shots at those and you simply cant miss them when they present themselves. its like the jets game first pass. you just gotta hit it

 

Jake Delhomme had less than that, never had a wide open receiver, made fewer mistakes, and his team won the game. Your excuse meter is off the charts in this thread. Chad Henne sucked balls today.

 

HENNE WAS NOT AT FAULT FOR THE HARTLINE PICK.



First of all: the pass was about 45 yards down field.... then adding in distance from the left hash to the sideline.


On top of that: SHAUN ROGERS ACTUALLY BROKE THROUGH THE POCKET RIGHT AS HENNE WAS STEPPING INTO HIS THROW...... Roger's momentum and hand raised were in direct path with Henne's throwing motion. IE: Rogers forced Chad to let up and not be able to follow completely through..... b/c if Henne had, he would've either:
A. Had it batted at the line (possible INT)
B. Potentially had his arm or shoulder injured/ dislocated b/c Rogers would've impeded Chad's delivery.


Chad was already too far into his throwing motion to pull it back..... so the only thing he could do was to get it as far as he could despite not being able to put everything into it.... and hope that it either:
A. Gets there
B. Hart makes a play in 1 on 1.

So..... this was NOT HENNE'S FAULT.



If you guys want to blame anyone, either blame:

A. Hart for being outplayed.
B. McQuistan for getting pushed back into Henne by Rogers who disrupted the play.

 

I'm a pretty staunch Henne supporter (IMO), but he was balls today. The Hartline interception was the one that frustrated me the most, and I really don't see how Henne isn't at fault.

 

I'm right there with you Stitch. I've found myself looking for ways to not like the guy after today, but within the thread other replies, I still want this guy to be it---especially after his Gladiator-esque performance coming through and playing on a busted up knee.

 

Hey Mr. Replay guy..... why don't you go back to your precious game tape and tell me the Hart INT was Henne's fault. Don't even try and tell me that Massaquio, Robiskie, Hillis, Watson, and Stuckey aren't better as a group than Hartline, Bess, Ricky, Fasano, Wallace (or Moore). That's a joke if I ever heard one. Do we need to go through their talent level etc 1 by one?

and guess what, Delhomme's offense only scored 10 pts too (not counting the freebie at the end).

 

Some of the time our hope clouds our judgement. Sooner or later you come to the conclusion "it is what it is." I'm at the edge of that cliff.

 

He's right. Delhomme managed the game better and helped them stay in the game.

 

Yup. Henne played today like I expected Delhomme to.

 

Why would I reply to such a smartass request?

Your boy sucked balls today.

 

Watch the replay carefully and you'll see exactly what I'm saying. Watch Rogers on McQuistan.... then go back and watch Henne's motion/mechanics/footwork. He clearly alters them to avoid Rogers from making a play.... and he's too far in his motion to pull it down.

I agree, he played ugly today, but that INT wasn't on him. And I'll refuse to bash him when his cast is piss poor as a whole. If he has a legit cast to work with and he plays poorly, then I'll be happy to bash away. I feel he deserves "some" criticism, but he's not Brady or Brees, and only a Brady or Brees could possibly make something productive out of this current group..... although I doubt it.

Eli didn't have Nicks or Smith today.... and he looked like dog crap too!!!! 15/25 for 161 and an INT. However he had a dominant ground game to bail his butt out. Did we break anything big on ground? Nope. Henne had our longest run of 10 yards.

 

I'm not bashing him (at least don't feel like I am). Sometimes it just isn't someone's day, and it was definitely not Henne's day today.

I think the INT was on Henne, but I'm not going to argue with you about it, and I really couldn't bring myself to watch the play again even if I wanted to.

I do think the 2nd half plays a little different if Hartline is out there though. I think it's obvious there is a pretty big drop from Bess/Hartline to Moore/Wallace.

 

Massaquoi: 27 receptions for 365 yards 2 TDs
Bess: 61 receptions for 667 yards 3 TDs

Robiskie: 18 receptions 141 yards 0 TDs
Hartline: 43 receptions 615 yards 1 TD

Stuckey: 33 receptions 300 yards 0 TDs
Wallace: 4 receptions 46 yards 0 TDs

Watson: 50 receptions 574 yards 3 TDs
Fasano: 32 receptions 434 yards 4 TDs

Hillis is having a monster year is better than our RBs, but we can have two quality RBs on the field at the same time thus giving us an extra playmaker.

Looking at those stats are you seriously going to rate their offensive skill players that much better?

 

Sure, use that as a cop-out excuse b/c you don't wanna admit that you're WRONG.

That INT wasn't on Chad, and it stalled the drive and prevented him from doing anything. Moore missed a big pass. The line allowed a FG to be blocked. Ricky somehow dropped (???) an easy first down that would've extended a drive. Our ground game couldn't pick up any chunk yards (nothing longer than 9). Our receivers were so deficient that we resorted to running Bess on a deep post.... and then throwing to him into coverage.

Seriously now, would you want to risk throwing to Wallace and Moore when you:
A. Don't trust them
B. Don't have a good rapport with them (very little repetition)
???????

Then add into it Hartline being outplayed by Haden on 2 deep passes...... and I'd be forcing it into Bess as well!!! I'd enter the 2nd half with zero trust in Moore, Wallace, or "Hart vs Haden". Please tell me how you can be effective when you can't trust 3 of your 4 receivers. Like Haden, I'm all ears.




I guess that also means also you won't want to give examples of QBs who had stellar performances with an equally poor surrounding cast as ours?

 

thank you..... and about an extra 10 yards adding in throwing across the field. There's not a QB in the game who could make that pass w/o being able to follow through. The fact that he got it that far for Hart to make a play is tremendous. Penny couldn't throw it that far with a full delivery and no one in his face.

 

It is easy to be out played when the quarterback throws terrible passes.

 

Yes we are close, but you forgot Wannstache's team won a playoff game. I guess that ship has sailed since we lost in 2008. ;]

 

Your posts are doing more to defense my position than ANYTHING I could say. Remember that my position is -

Chad Henne sucked balls today.

 

Henne had NO option of putting everything into the throw b/c of Rogers. We were lucky to see the 50 yards in the air that we saw on it. These are situations when our WRs need to act like freaking WRs!!!!! You're frustrated?..... I'm sick of this crap!!! God forbid that we should ask our WRs to ACTUALLY make a friggin play on a ball that's not in their immediate catching vicinity and in stride!!!

What the heck do Andre Johnson, Fitz, Calvin Johnson, Owens, Moss, etc etc do? Do they sit back and wait for the perfect pass and give up on it if it's not "right there"? F@## no they dont!! They attack the f****** ball. They take imperfect passes and turn them into game-changing plays. They allow their QBs to trust them b/c they won't stand for getting outplayed in single coverage, allowing an INT.

I've watched the play a dozen times. Hartline is looking back on the ball for forever. He had plenty of time to adjust... yet he did NOT. What he did do---- was to misjudge the ball's trajectory (or just decided to be passive on it) b/c even though he was looking at it, he continued to run an extra 5 yards and let the ball come to him rather than planting and coming back to attack the ball.

Sorry, but once the ball was underthrown, the INT was on Hartline. He watched the play the entire time, where as Haden caught the tail end of it, yet Haden STILL made the play.

 

In general, we do have some fine skill players..... however, when one of them is asked to play as a #1 (above his talent level), then he's no longer a "fine player"; he's a liability.

We have no #2 TE to mix it up or give Fasano a break. This is a deficiency.

Moore and Wallace are our #3 & #4 WR's right now (#2 and #3 on the outside). That's far from "fine skill". That's absurd by any standards.

R&R aren't defined as "fine skill players" in the passing game IMO. They're merely adequate.

Fasano only looks like a fine skill player b/c he has no competition to steal some of his snaps and receiving opportunities. He might be slightly above average in the passing game, but he's no "fine skill player" outside the run IMO.

That leaves Bess, who is a fine skill player.

That's not enough.

Now that's just flat out insulting to monkeys!

................and let me know when you realize that <a 2nd year inconsistent 4th rounder being bumped up to a #1, 2 Rookie FA WRs, 0 backup TEs, and zero COP backs> dont equate to talent. LOL.

Eli Manning had just as bad of a day without Nicks and Smith in the lineup..... but even with them out, it still left him with more talent to work with than Henne.


I'm not giving Chad a free pass here..... but I'm not blaming him for things that weren't his fault. I agree he could've played a better game.... but I also feel that it doesn't help a mediocre performance when your WRs & RBs are dropping big passes or are being outplayed on balls like Hartline was. Hart has as much right to the ball as Haden did, but he did NOT come up with it. He actually had sight of the ball much longer than Haden and he STILL couldn't at least break it up. That's pathetic. It's arguable that a more experienced WR could've positioned himself in a more advantageously on the post(??) in the endzone that Haden broke up (putting himself in between the ball and Haden better).

 

Yes, he had 1 real INT in this game. ONE. The first was caused by Rogers.... the last was a batted pass.

The 2nd one was Chad trying to make a play to the only WR he probably trusts. Was it a bad throw? Yes. Big deal.... but it was his only "bad" decision of the day. I'll counter his forced INT with his new awareness and decisiveness to safely tuck and run for a first (as he's now beginning to do).

 

actually thats a good point about him learning to tuck it and run. well maybe run is a bit optimistic. tuck it and lumber for a first would be more apropos. but still it is another sign that he is picking up certain skills slowly but surely