1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Calling Boomer CK and them boys

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ET7, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    No. They are not top five locks either IMO but I would take one if he was there. Certainly. As Rex Ryan says, you never have enough DB's.
     
    BuckeyeKing likes this.
  2. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007

    Right, ACTUALLY we were cursed the minute we gave up a top 10 pick for a 5th round player. :up:
     
  3. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

    25,411
    5,743
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Not unless Frazier stays. I could see Kevin Kolb getting moved but at what price?
     
  4. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Not necessarily. It’s not unheard of for incoming coaches to use the leftover quarterback for a year. Besides, Frazier in all likelihood will be hired full-time after the season.

    Depends on who’s buying.
     
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    The only shot we have at Luck is a team like the Lions deciding to move out of the top 5. Otherwise he is gone. Here are the teams that will consider Luck.

    Panthers, Bengals, Bills, Cardinals, Niners, Titans, Redskins, Vikings, Browns, Patriots (via freaking Oakland). No way we get Luck.

    One of those teams will offer a good price for Kolb I am sure, hoping to replicate what the Texans did with Schaub. I'd bet on the Cards, Niners or Vikes for that.

    Mallet, Locker or Newton are the realistic options for QB unless an underclassman declares (Foles). Offensively, no real TE you could take that high, but plenty of potential wideouts (will Blackmon declare?), Ingram or interior OL help possibly. Hopefully a trade down if we go the OL route.

    Our defense is improving big time, now we need some offensive playmaking in a desperate way.
     
  6. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    That's 10 teams. 5 of which are at the same record or within one game. We might easily end up with the #6 pick as it is. And of the 5 teams with an even worse record, 4 might not even go for a QB. To say we have no shot at Luck right now is just plain wrong.
     
  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    In that anything is always possible, yeah we do. Realistically? No. And every good outing by Ryan, Sanchez and Bradford just raises his value. QB driven league, you must get your QB and Luck is an excellent prospect.
     
  8. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    If you end up with the #6 and Carolina ends up with the #1 (two things that are easily possible based on today's standings), then you have a very good shot at Luck. Would it cost you much of your draft? Sure. But that's the way it goes and always has.
     
  9. ET7

    ET7 New Member

    238
    57
    0
    Jan 7, 2010
    thanks for the detailed response. I tend not to look into the draft and videos until the NFL season ends but hte way this year is going it is worse due to the promise we had coming in talent wise for once.

    To be honest, I haven't heard a thing about Foles that you mentioned. Someone I need to look into. Does he look 1st round talent?
     
  10. ET7

    ET7 New Member

    238
    57
    0
    Jan 7, 2010
    Those 2 guys are going top 10 sir.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Personally I don't see Carolina passing. Clausen has shown nothing to indicate he is the QB of the future, and they won't even play Pike. Plus the new coach will have no incentive to keep either one. It's possible they pass, but I don't see it.

    As for what you will need to give up, our lack of a deuce will hurt us on that one. If the Panthers are willing to take a cheap deal from us, then chances are someone else can and will offer something more.

    I do agree we may end up with a high pick when it's all said and done considering our schedule. We will be lucky to go 2-2 these last 4 games. I still see our chance to get Luck at virtually nil.
     
  12. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well with the way the last 12 years have been, the Miami Dolphins sure could use some LUCK
     
    SICK likes this.
  13. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    12 years? sigh ....
     
  14. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

    25,411
    5,743
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    I understand guys want a veteran but Jackson is pretty rubbish. Looks like Jackson might see plenty of time if Farve's shoulder is in pretty bad shape. I do think a new regime would like to get their own QB and I think if Luck is there no doubt in my mind they take him and maybe let Jackson take the reigns but I find that unlikely.
     
  15. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,464
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    If it was you, would you draft a QB, or give Henne another shot with a new OC?

    Interesting about Foles. That's the first I've really heard about him as a top flight draft prospect and I haven't seen him play. I'll have to check him out at his bowl game.

    I don't really want anything to do with Mallett.

    Locker is interesting to me. He's obviously had a down year, but he just seems too talented to be overlooked. He will most likely be there when the Dolphins pick and could be interesting.

    I'm really curious to hear you say some more about Newton. I wasn't that high on him earlier on, but the more I see him play, the more I like him. I talked with Alen about this in another thread, but while most people seem to compare him to Vince Young, I see him as more of a Big Ben type and there was actually an article on ESPN.com today that said something similar.

    Too bad we won't get a chance at Luck. If I they decide to move on from Henne, I'd think about selling the farm for a shot at him. That guy seems like as good a QB prospect as you can get.
     
  16. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

    6,359
    1,671
    0
    Mar 23, 2008
    Los Angeles
    Under these guys? Heck no.

    I'd rather them draft an OLB and make the defense elite than trust them with anything related to the QB position. Sign a veteran if you have to, it worked with Pennington maybe it'll work with say Carson Palmer. They're terrible at anything outside the front lines so let them continue to draft there.
     
  17. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    I like Henne but not all of the issues are on Dan Henning. A lot are, but not all. You can build an argument to get rid of Henning, hope to get a Josh McDaniels and give Chad the job. Invest in some new toys for him and see where you go. Or you could give up and take a QB, knowing that there will be bumps in the road.

    Foles is a very good player. Very accurate. Great arm. Was terrific last year and has followed that up this year. Don't judge him on his Bowl Game though. Last year they got killed by Suh and Nebraska and he really struggled.

    To be honest, Locker had the same year this year as last. At times he looks All World. At times he doesn't look anything. If Henne's decision making upsets you, so will Lockers. He's a good player, but he may well break your heart.

    Comparisons to Vince Young are ridiculous IMO. Black and athletic. That's it. Newton is bigger, stronger, faster, MUCH better arm, MUCH more accurate. He's not running a sophisticated offense necessarily, but he's seeing a lot of different coverages as people try to confuse him but it's having no effect whatsoever. His ball placement is superior to anyone not called Andrew Luck and at times it's even better than Luck's. I have no problem saying that. The Roethlisberger comparison is much, much better.

    Luck's going to be great. But I doubt we have a shot.
     
    sports24/7 likes this.
  18. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    I don't see any scenario under which Tarvaris Jackson is the starter in Minnesota.
     
  19. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I agree , they have had him to decipher and apparently don't feel he is the answer ( I concur ) .

    We are going to be inundated by anti and pro Cam Newton posts , whether we want that or not.

    This inherent dismissal for anyone athletic is really wearing thin. The game is changing and we are going to see QB's with the skill set of Newton enjoy success at the NFL level. To me it isn't that Young can't be a quality starter talent wise , it is his preperation , work ethic and determination that has to improve.

    One thing Boom , I have seen may 6 Auburn games and the time Newton has to throw at times is unreal. Have you seen him under pressure , with 3 seconds to throw as opposed to 6 a fair bit? and if you have , what have you seen?

    Thanks.
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  20. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Lee Ziemba is a player on the Auburn's line. Has some issues but he's solid, smart, tough and physical. That'll get you staying in this league for a long time IMO.
     
  21. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    He has looked very consistent to me this year.
     
  22. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Yeah, I was just referring to some technique issues but I think he's a good player.
     
  23. RalphX19X

    RalphX19X >:)

    563
    135
    43
    Nov 23, 2007
    Miami
    If you draft newton do you go after Gus mazahn as OC?
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    A few things.

    First let me throw one more QB into the fray since not many people have managed to catch any of his games and I happen to have. Pat Devlin has all the credentials you could ask for coming out of high school and being a highly recruited kid (one of the best QBs in the nation). He went to Penn State and had a QB competition with Daryll Clark, and lost. Curiously, when he did play that year (2008), he put up great numbers for a young guy (25 of 47 for 498 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, w/ 2 Rush TDs). He threw a 59 yard TD to Deon Butler against #17 ranked Michigan State and an 80 yard screen to Stephfon Williams that went for a TD against Michigan. He threw 2 TDs against Syracuse, rushed for a TD against Wisconsin, rushed for another TD against Ohio State. He may have lost the competition but he played a little bit and Joe Paterno swore by him. He transferred to Delaware and has played 2009 and 2010 there. His team is 10-2 this year, and he just won his game against Lehigh in the 2nd round of FCS Playoffs, going 19 of 26 for 256 yards and 4 TDs. He'll face New Hampshire in the quarterfinals in 6 days.

    From what I've seen, I'm not about to accuse the kid of looking like Joe Flacco, who took a similar route from being a high recruit to going to Penn State, somehow not starting under Dave Wannstedt, going to Delaware, etc. The story is the same but the players are very different. What I like about Devlin most is he owns the football. He has really good accuracy and he regularly threw with great anticipation during the game I saw him play. The ball was often out before the receiver had started to make his break, which is a good sign. He also uses his eyes and pump fake to fool the safety, which I like. He sees the field and can make plays by improvising. If I say that arm strength is a question mark, I know that many people are going to get the wrong idea. I have pretty high standards in that regard. Let's just say his arm strength is on the margin of what would make me give him a full thumbs up on that front, so there is a little something to be seen about how he throws with power when asked. We'll get a better picture of that when he practices and plays an All Star game, competes at the Combine. Remember, a question mark is a question mark. It's not a negative. He could have an awesome arm, his arm could be insufficient, I haven't seen enough to be sure one way or the other. His passes regularly go 20 to 25 yards as the crow flies. He just doesn't have the strength to go off balance and flip the thing 20+ yards. The other negative is he doesn't have great athleticism in the pocket. And of course, he worked in a shotgun offense. But you watch him play and he just smells like a quarterback, a real smart, improvising ball distributor that processes information quickly, and puts the ball exactly where it needs to be.

    Other things.

    *If you get Pat Devlin in the Draft, then I hope John Ramsdell is here as Offensive Coordinator. I want the guy that developed Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger and Phil Rivers to develop an offense that this kid might thrive in...because he reminds me a lot of some of those guys.

    *Outside of setting off about a dozen dirty bombs in various NFL headquarters causing mass confusion and a lot of expiring draft clocks, a plan which should be under at least some consideration, I doubt we need to be talking about Andrew Luck.

    *I'm not a huge proponent of Ryan Mallett's, even less Jake Locker. I don't think Locker has the accuracy, and I question Mallett's demeanor not to mention pocket poise.

    *I haven't looked much at Nick Foles because I try and stick with seniors and sure bet juniors until we know more, so I'll defer to Simon, but I had heard that he's probably going to stay in school.

    *Dolfan22 is talking some straight cold truth when he points out that between now and the Draft, Cam Newton is going to draw tons and tons and tons and tons of threads, hot debates, cat fights, etc. I am not looking forward to this. I am looking even less forward to being asked to choose a side. I'm very in-between on him.

    *About Chad Henne, when you're put in the position of hotly debating which side sucks so bad he's tanking the other side, usually the chances are they both suck pretty bad. Chad Henne throwing picks left and right on play-action is not giving the staff very much to work with. The staff being the worst and least detail oriented staff in football when it comes to coaching the fundamentals of play-action, on the other hand, is not giving Chad Henne very much to work with on those passes, and it's compounded by the curious decisions that this staff has made with respect to play calling. They've developed Chad Henne poorly and we could be facing a situation where right now and for all time, he is who he is, and whether he got that way because that's who he was always destined to be, or because they decided they were going to cut his teeth in the Bubba Gump offense...I don't know and I'm not sure it matters. If we get a new staff, a new QB Coach, new Offensive Coordinator, and they pay attention to the details, fine tune him, you may be able to change him a little...but can you change him a lot? I doubt it. Either way it's time to start hedging risk by taking another quarterback with a significant investment. Just do NOT let this offensive coaching staff near the new guy.

    *I believe Tarvaris Jackson could very well get a shot in 2011 for Minnesota. I've been saying for a while now that when I watch him play during the amount of time he's had in preseason and regular season, he actually surprises me at times in how good a QB he looks. He's been improving. And I put the emphasis on QB because he reads the field and distributes the ball, does very quarterbacky things. Beating Buffalo 38-14 after Favre blessedly got knocked out of the game can't hurt. All he may have to do is show that he can get the ball into his playmakers' hands and he could induce Rick Spielman to stick with him.

    *If someone could successfully knock Jimmy Clausen down about five pegs, find a way to humble him, I wouldn't mind trying to develop him. Would seeing Carolina take Andrew Luck only a year after using a 2nd round pick on him do the trick? In all likelihood, no.
     
  25. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,464
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Good stuff Chris. Interesting on Devlin. I know he's getting some draft buzz, but obviously I haven't seen Deleware play this year so I didn't know how much of that was valid. I remember when he committed to Miami and then at the last minute switched to Penn St.. As strange as it may sound, it's probably much better off for him that he ended up at Deleware than Miami because that staff probably would have ruined him.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Honestly if Devlin went to Miami, I think he would have risen above any problems and Randy Shannon's staff would still be there.
     
  27. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well , seeing that the loss yesterday has really finished the season , suspect the posts take a turn in this direction.

    This is an advance thanks to all who take huge chunks of time to source information , form coherent opinions and offer possible and plausible paths to finally righting the ship we call the Dolphins.

    To be honest ,the season was unofficially over after the loos to Chicago for me. This just nails it shut. Since that time I have waivered from half full to half empty to to the sky has fallen , to well if....this happens , we can be playing multiple games in Jan 2012 , providing there is a season.

    Lots to consider , Stephen Ross can't be happy with the overall performance , but he has to be seething about how we have performed at home . I did chose the word performed , as I think he sees this as part sport , part entertainment , and can't be willing to accept another year of performances like this at home for paying customers.

    That being said , there probably is or will be more pressure on substantial change. Media friendly coach , staff , name recognition , a splashy presentation. Don't think we can summarily dismiss that , in the south Florida market , it is more about event driven than in almost any other NFL center. That aspect has failed miserably and hasn't been backed up by conservative , old fashioned winning. If you can't win , you can't lose with no vibrancy , that may certainly be a mandate for Ross. Not saying it is right , however I believe it certainly comes into the evaluation post mortem.

    I am old enough to know 3 yards and a cloud of dust , so I don't diminish building from the inside out , and focusing on core fundamentals. Saying that , the league has changed and Miami has resisted changing to match most other teams. We seem to do it begrudgingly.

    A new coordiantor is a must on offence , no if ands or buts. Has to be. With that , we need better and different skill sets from offensive players and .... SPEED.

    If Sparano stays , he needs to have this mandate and not where he follows some direction , he needs to believe it and live it. This league has evolved and you can't win consistently without the ability to score suddenly , get explosive plays , and stay even with the top tiered teams in that regard.

    Miami can't do evrything all at once , but we need to get faster , more dynamic at RB , WR , KR , and TE. Focus on that , maybe one OLineman from free agency ( please no more misses there ) but please PLEASE address this part of the incomplete equation.

    That leaves QB , heavy sigggggghhhhh ..... I think Henne needs to have a season with a better more assertive coordinator before closing that door. That doesn't preclude drafting a QB high ( round one ) if one is there that makes sense. Ideally , we wouldn't HAVE to do that , but we may .

    It is time to completely cut ties with Parcells. Move on. That train has pulled away for the last time I hope.

    I think Ireland deserves a chance here on his own , however , ONLY if he displays to Ross that he is on board with getting Miami into this current NFL asap. If he doesn't sell that vision , then unfortunately I think a complete overhaul is needed and will be done. That probably means multiple years of retooling , and can't thnk many of us want that . It is a bitter pill we may need to swallow though in order to get where we deserve to be , if he doesn't have a clear , concise blueprint to right this once and for all.

    Whoever said the off season is boring? Miami fans have been living it for a lifetime.
     
  28. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,464
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    That's a pretty strong statement to Devlin's ability and personality, because I think the greatest downfall of Shannon's staff was the ability (or inability) to develop talent.
     
  29. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    His OL is very good. Lee Ziemba's a good player, Ryan Pugh the center can play and Mike Berry is a really good pulling guard. He's a little like the right sided Thomas Claiborne of BC - little uncoordinated at times, but can get out and blast you.
     
  30. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,464
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I downloaded a few of his games to take a look at him. Last night I watched him against Arizona St. and now I'm watching the Oregon game. I can definitely see why you guys like him. Big kid with nice athleticism and accuracy. It's a shame his kicker blows, because he did a heck of a job bringing them back in the ASU game.
     
  31. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

    2,540
    1,327
    113
    Aug 23, 2009
    I am not in the group that says we should draft a QB early this upcoming draft, but I agree 100% with this statement. In a bizarro world where we drafted Luck, I honestly think Henning and Lee would ruin him, and we would have Alex Smith v.2 on our hands. If we do decide to take a QB in the 1st round, I just hope we have some teachers to teach the pro game to the investment.
     
  32. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

    2,541
    808
    0
    Oct 15, 2008
    Los Angeles, CA
    It would probably take more than that depending on our slot. In most scenarios we are probably taking about this year's 1st and next year's 1st at a minimum. Plus I don't see this front office moving up to draft a red shirt sophomore. But who knows?

    Always great to hear your take Boomer. I like Foles as well. It's a bit of a concern that he plays in a spread offense. But maybe we fire Henning and hire an OC who runs a spread offense. We'll have to wait until January to see if he declares.

    Saw a mock draft that had us taking Cam Newton and immediately thought it was a terrible idea. But the more I think about it the more I like the idea of drafting Newton. He is an explosive playmaker in the mold of a Michael Vick who is tearing up the league right now. At the very least we would have an exciting offense to watch!

    Plus Newton has been very accurate completing 67% of his passes this season. Granted he only has 246 attempts. I also like the 28 touchdown passes against 6 interceptions.

    Colin Kaepernick
    is another interesting prospect assuming he doesn't play baseball.

    Not a fan of Ponder at all. Too inconsistent and too many injuries. Luck, Locker, and Mallett appear to be the Top 3 but there could be a surprise on the horizon.

    Love Kellen Moore! Best college QB in the game for my money. But I seriously doubt he declares and he could struggle in the NFL because of his size.

    Andy Dalton from TCU is very good but he is also a little smaller than you'd like. Also plays in a spread offense like Foles.

    A guy who is not getting a lot of love who I think could be very good is Ricky Stanzi. Completed almost 65% of his passes this season. 25 touchdowns against 4 interceptions. And he plays in Iowa's Power I. Could be a steal in the 4th round much like a Kyle Orton.

    Chandler Harnish is another junior who piques my interest if he declares.

    I am also a big fan of Oklahoma State's Brandon Weeden but he is 26 years old. Definitely worth a 6th or 7th round pick if he's still on the board.
     
  33. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

    2,541
    808
    0
    Oct 15, 2008
    Los Angeles, CA
    If I was Jeff Ireland I would draft Cam Newton in the 1st and then come back and take Kaepernick in the 4th. Or Nick Foles in the 1st (if he declares) and then come back and take Ricky Stanzi in the 4th.

    I would also burn a 7th on Brandon Weeden, Mike Hartline, Taylor Potts, or Tyrod Taylor. Because we are at a point now where our 7th round draft pick has very long odds of making our team. Why not use it on a QB? Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick and Tony Romo was undrafted. You never know where you might find a hidden gem.
     
    Speedy likes this.
  34. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Not a fan of Kaepernick nor Dalton, especially not Dalton.
     
    ckparrothead and Big Red like this.
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Last season I thought Jake Locker was a 4th round pick at best, this season I still think he is a 4th round pick at best. Probably lower if the idea is to select him to be quarterback.
     
  36. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,464
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    The Dolphins can't afford to use a 1st and 4th round pick on a QB, let alone use 2 or their only 3 picks in the first 4 rounds on players that won't play next season. I'm not completely against taking Newton or Foles in the 1st, but they need to address their other needs in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
     
  37. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Just noticed you said Pugh. You like Pugh?
     
  38. Speedy

    Speedy Dolfan forever! :-)

    301
    48
    0
    Jan 12, 2010
    Germany
    I think it's a good idea to draft a QB in round 1 (Newton) and spend a late round pick on a second one (maybe McElroy?). I can't see Thigpen being here next year and I don't think Pennington will play again. :( But it would be great if he stayed to teach the young QBs. :up:
     
  39. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,777
    7,574
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Are there any reports as to what Newton runs in the 40? I'd guess 4.5x but he does have a long stride so who knows.
     
  40. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Not sure. I would think late 4.5's to 4.6's.
     
    Tone_E likes this.

Share This Page