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Calling Boomer CK and them boys

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ET7, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't mind Pugh as a late round, FA type. I like Berry a lot more.
     
  2. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The way he ran away from Pat Peterson, you could say under 4.5 and not be wildly wrong.
     
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  3. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks guys, he looks slow when he runs, but his speed is deceiving when he pulls away from people. This guy intrigues me, but I was watching his last game against S. Carolina, and he doesn't strike me as the leader type, his demeanor seems self centered. Granted, that is the only live game I've seen with sideline shots etc so I may be completely wrong. When he threw that INT, he was sulking on the sideline, etc. Even though that was his first of the season - if I heard the commentator correctly. That made me question his attitude, emotions, etc. Could be a good thing ala Phillip Rivers and make him play harder, or it could be a bad thing ala V. Young.

    Again, I have only seen him live (on tv) once so my observation could be completely off but aside from the physical gifts, does he have the mental toughness/ right attitude to be a pro in the NFL? See V. Young, R. Leaf, J. Beck, and J. Russell to name a few.
     
  4. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Others will elaborate better , but from the little I know , his teamates really like him , he is very genuine , and plays with a sincere passion for the game. It isn't incidental for him as it was for some other high profile QB's that were drafted high.
     
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  5. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    From everything I know, his teammates like him more than Terrelle Pryor's teammates like Pryor.
     
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  6. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I've seen several of his games and it appears everybody likes his fire and personality. Most people talk about his running ability, but the man has a great arm too.
     
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  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Can't agree more. Also not a guy that will jump on the Kellen Moore bandwagon any time soon.

    Colin Kaepernick does not play like a quarterback. He doesn't look like a quarterback, he doesn't move like a quarterback and I would argue too often he doesn't think like a quarterback. And as for Dalton, he's just too physically limited. You ask him to run anything but that short-short-short-short-short-OK-NOW-GO-LONG offense, I think he's in trouble.
     
  8. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Dalton can't throw outside numbers and worst of all, he's not poised. Gary Patterson talked about last years game when Dalton struggled against Boise St. He threw a pick and Dalton was rattled early. That shook the whole offenses confidence and they were never the same after that. Dalton's confidence was shot.
     
  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Also, agree on Kellen Moore. The guy is a PURE system guy IMO. Chris Peterson is a great play caller.
     
  10. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Kaepernick is raw and will need time to develop but I think he's got skills. Both running and throwing the ball. Smart, accurate, good character. I would draft him as a backup to Cam Newton because I think they have similar playing styles.

    What don't you like about Dalton? Stats aren't everything but his QB rating is 5th best in the NCAA this season. I worry about Henne throwing an INT whenever we get into the redzone. (Even outside of the redzone. :lol:) But you wouldn't have that concern with Dalton.

    Uh... Except Cam Newton would play next season. I wouldn't draft him in the 1st round and not play him. Also if I'm drafting Cam Newton I would try to trade Henne for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

    The front office has made a few mistakes but they have also plugged a lot of holes.

    QB
    RB - Ricky and Ronnie
    FB - Lou Polite
    WR - Marshall, Bess, and Hartline
    TE - Fasano
    RT - Long
    LG - Incognito
    C
    RG - Jerry
    RT - Carey

    NT - Soliai and Starks
    DE - Langford, Odrick, Merling, McDaniel

    OLB - Wake and Misi
    ILB - Dansby, Dobbins, Edds

    CB - Davis, Smith, Carroll, Al Harris, Will Allen
    S - Bell, Clemons, Jones

    K - Carpenter
    P - Fields
    LS - Denney
    KR

    QB, Center, and KR are our three biggest needs as I see it.

    I would love to take a wideout, running back, or cornerback in the 1st (or 2nd round if we had a pick) but it's not our biggest need because we have Brandon Marshall who should be fully healthy from his hamstring next year, Bess is a stud, Hartline is capable, Ronnie is a badass and needs to be re-signed, Ricky has another year in him, and Will Allen will be healthly next year. As well as Al Harris.

    I would love to take a Guard or Right Tackle in the 1st or 3rd round but it's not our biggest need because we have Nate Garner coming back next year, Incognito is behaving, Jerry is only going to get stronger and better, , McQuistan is a solid backup, and despite the occasional missed assignment Vernon Carey is better than most and still has a few years left.

    You say the Dolphins can't afford to use a 1st and 4th round pick on a QB. I say they can't afford not to. I would trade my 3rd round pick, 4th round pick, or whatever I needed to in order to trade up and get the QB I wanted.

    I would also love to draft Noel Devine in the 3rd but I doubt he will be on the board.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'll toss another name out there for digestion and that is a guy I've talked about before, T.J. Yates.

    If you want a guy that's fought through adversity and seen everything, he's it. And you know what? The guy's come out of it a pretty damn good quarterback on the other side of it all. He's played significantly in 43 games. He owns the passing records at UNC. Watching their offense can be painful at times because it's so EXACTLY like a pro offense, but not like just any pro offense, it's exactly like a conservative pro offense (reminds me of our offense, except UNC has better fundamental coaching and execution in areas). Very play-action based. Very checkdown heavy. Very vertical. The thing about the checkdowns is, watching a guy operate an offense and check the ball down successfully to outlets is not the same as watching an Andy Dalton hit all these short passes here and there in a spread. One translates, one doesn't.

    Yates has to me a perfect build. His feet are a lot quicker than Henne's, though he's not winning any races. What impresses me about him is his firm command of the offense. That offense uses a lot of motion, a lot of pre-snap formation shifts, route audibles, protections, everything he'll be doing in the pros, and he actively directs his teammates on every play, almost looking like a Peyton Manning out there (prior to the snap). He's a real field general. You like a guy that can elevate the game of people around him and you have to notice that he's doing just that. You can visibly see chemistry between he and his receivers, and that's with losing his top senior playmakers TE Zach Pianalto and WR Greg Little. The players around him don't seem to play like idiots running where a playbook told them to, nor does he throw to them like it. He's had 400+ yard days against LSU, Florida State and NC State this year. That's pretty good. He had the big 4 interception terrible outing against Virginia Tech, I haven't looked at that game yet but that could have come about for a number of reasons. His career completion percentage is 61% and his career YPC is somehting like 12.3 which is also good especially in a pro style offense.

    His ball placement on the short stuff is superb and he regularly gets a lot of RAC on his checkdowns. He's very good with the 10 to 15 yard throw. He can miss high once in a while on the 20 to 25 yard throws, but he throws them hot and hits a lot more often than he misses. He's improvisational in that he can break down and shovel the ball to a back, and get perfect ball location on the shovel so that the back can run after the catch. Due to injury and suspension, he's dealing with guys that don't always catch the ball but at the same time he seems to be throwing a pretty catchable ball. I still have to see more vertical throws from him, to see if he has touch on them. He has a reputation as a good vertical thrower but I need to see it for myself. Mechanically, he is extremely sound on fakes. He has a habit at times of squeezing the throw and not stepping into it, but aside from that he looks to me to be the most polished quarterback from a fundamental standpoint in this draft among anyone not named Andrew Luck.

    The thing that really struck me about him is his field processing and eye usage. He regularly, and I do mean regularly, gets to his fourth read, and you can see him get through all the reads. He pops his head around off the fake and finds his first read quickly, and will get off it if it's not there. What I like about him is because the offense uses delay routes and other pro concepts, he's developed a timing and a feel for using his eyes and at times pump fake to get the guy he wants open. He understands how to get a zone defender to commit on high-low routes and hit the defense where it's weak. Just one example, a play that comes to mind immediately, he starts off the play reading his left receiving option and checks off him. He flows to his right to read the Y receiving option in the zone with inside and outside coverage. He doesn't like him (yet) because of the combo, and flows quickly with his eyes all the way to the right to the back now leaking out to the right side and threatening the zone defender that had the outside of the Y receiver. Yates' eyes forced the zone defender to commit to the back in the flat and disengage the Y receiver, and then Yates whipped back and slung the ball into a tight fit spot to the Y receiver that the zone defender had just started moving away from.

    The guy has downsides of course. Being 22-21 as a starter isn't going to impress too many people. He can often fit the ball into TOO tight of a space. I really don't think he's particularly good on the roll, and at times if he's got the tidal wave crashing down on him in the pocket, he can show a little give up rather than a bestial make-the-guy-miss mentality. There are times when I wonder if he has a good mindset for attacking down the field.

    He's proven at the college level though to be a guy worth coaching, because you look at him now, having 400+ yard days against good teams and good defenses, having total mastery and command of a pro style offense, elevating the level of play of younger inexperienced players around him even as his go-to guys get suspended and injured...this year I think the UNC coaches have to say that coaching the guy up has been worth it. He should have won the game against LSU. Last second drive, he marches the team down the field methodically and with good time management, he throws two money passes into the end zone and the first one Zach Pianalto has an uncharacteristic drop, the second one the defender got to Pianalto early and it absolutely should have been pass interference. They should have tied the NC State game as well. He makes a great play to a receiver over the middle on 3rd & Long from the end zone needing 8 points, and that play was on Yates because he read the coverage on the WR's delay route, took a few steps to buy enough time for his WR to get on the move again, and immediately hit him in stride for what should have been a TD but the young kid just barely got his knee down before the end zone. So instead of getting the TD and using the best short TD play in their game plan to try and get the 2-point conversion, they had to use the latter play on a 4th & 2 from outside the end zone still needing the touchdown. They used the play and Yates found an open Tight End in the back of the end zone off play-action. But now they have to go to another play for the 2-point conversion, and it was a roll-out that made little sense to me and isn't really Yates' strong suit. T.J. had the awareness as he was running out of bounds that to run out of bounds would be pointless, to throw the ball out of bounds would be pointless, and so he did exactly what he should have and floated up an hot air balloon in bounds into the end zone, hoping one of the couple of offensive players in the area could fight for it.

    He did what he could in both games and it just didn't work out.
     
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  12. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Chris, another name you've talked about and I am with you on is Ben Chappell.
     
  13. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Kellen Moore is a great college quarterback. Don't see him having the same success in the NFL. But what do I know?

    He doesn't think like a quarterback? How did you arrive at that?

    Hmmm... Interesting. Those are definitely knocks against Dalton. We'll know more about his arm strength after the combine. As far as him getting rattled that could be a maturity issue. He has looked more than poised this season.

    You could argue that Tom Brady is a PURE system guy. Put Moore in the right system and he could flourish. But I think we all agree that he has an uphill battle to be successful in the NFL.
     
  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    YESS!!!

    damn it CK, im a big fan of him. this guy has thrown a great deep ball this year. he put this team on his back with all the crap going on with them, and he played great

    I think when its all said and done you could see Yates go in round 2.
     
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  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    you could try and argue that, and you would be an idiot. I dont see Moore flourishing in any nfl system.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I would think that the more people take a strong look at the guy, the more we're going to hear his name.
     
  17. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Agreed. He's got something to work with.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The guys I really like right now at that position include Andrew Luck, Pat Devlin, Ben Chappell and T.J. Yates. I do want to look at Ricky Stanzi some more, I'd never been a huge fan but on FH that guy TedSlimmJr used to coach quarterbacks and he seems a pretty big fan so Stanzi's worth another look. He also really likes Ryan Mallett and Jake Locker, but I feel pretty safe an diverging there, as we did on Jimmy Clausen. He's also a big Chappell fan, I came to find out, and he came my way on Andrew Luck.

    I don't know that I'd get behind any other QB in this draft aside from Luck, Devlin, Chappell and Yates, but then again...maybe I just haven't seen enough of them. I know I don't like Kaepernick. I know I don't like Dalton. I know I don't like Locker. I'm in-between on Ryan Mallett, Cam Newton and Christian Ponder. Need to see more on Stanzi. I like McElroy as maybe an NFL backup. But I wouldn't draft a guy knowing his top end was an NFL backup. Let other teams put in the time and effort to only get that kind of result, and then I'll sign him in free agency. :)
     
  19. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Not saying you're wrong but why doesn't it translate? Isn't the QB going through his progressions either way?

    I like Yates too. My concern is the interceptions. Especially in light of our current QB situation. You mention his career stats. How about these? He has 57 TDs against 45 interceptions. Compare that to a guy you don't like, Mr. Kaepernick. He has 81 TDs against 23 interceptions. Plus another 59 rushing TDs.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And Blaine Gabbert...if you're right and he's coming out, I have a lot of work to do. Massive physical talent. That's going to be another tough one.
     
  21. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    I have as good a chance as Yates getting drafted in round 2. :lol:
     
  22. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    I'm sorry. Do you have physical evidence of Tom Brady playing lights out in a system outside of New England?
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The answer is no and that's the reason one translates and one does not. Everything in that spread style attack is very quick and very directed, pre-snap. When you're operating a pro style offense and you're checking down, you're at least on your 3rd read, maybe 4th read. There's a rhythm and timing aspect to it.

    He does have interceptions. And he hasn't always been a good quarterback. His development at UNC will mimic in a lot of ways the development of a pro in the NFL, because he operates a true NFL style offense. At the NFL level you find that the young guys throw a lot of interceptions, then they start settling in better an operating the offense. This year Yates' ratio is 18/8, and in that offense I'm comfortable with that.

    In the kind of offense that Kaepernick operates, you'll naturally have fewer interceptions.
     
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  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You're the one that made the claim that he's a system QB. I believe the onus is therefore on you to prove your claim, because the evidence currently points to him being a good QB period, without qualification.
     
  25. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    I said you could make the argument. Brady hasn't played anywhere else. I don't think it's idiotic to think he would not have three Super Bowl rings if he was drafted by Detroit. There is also a lot of evidence of players who leave New England and don't have nearly the same success. Or players who aren't that great but then flourish in New England. It's not really worth arguing about whether Brady is a system QB or not because we will never know.

    However if a QB has proven that he can be successful in a given system then it only follows logically that he could flourish in a similar system on another team or at the next level. There is a reason why Kellen Moore is a Heisman Trophy candidate. Can he be a successful QB in the NFL? I would say the odds are against him. But put him on the right team in the right system and he could surprise. That's all I'm saying.

    In fact, I could see Moore doing well in New England.
     
  26. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Yeah I see what you mean. But if you're running a spread offense and that first receiver isn't open you still need to look for a second receiver. If the second receiver isn't open then you need to look for a third. If anything you'd think it would be easier to go from the spread to a pro style offense. But you're right. It often does not translate.

    Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Kyle Orton came out of a spread offense in college (Brees and Orton both played at Purdue), but they all play in a variation of the spread in the NFL. The rest of the league's top quarterbacks did not play in a spread offense in college: Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Shaub, Matt Ryan, Matt Hasselbeck, Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Josh Freeman, Jay Cutler, and Ben Roethlisberger.

    True. I'd be more comfortable with a 18/6 ratio but Yates is definitely worth consideration.
     
  27. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    I just noticed a lot of quarterbacks are named Matt. Maybe we should draft Matt Barkley when he comes out. :lol:
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    First off, no we won't know if the very unlikely possibility that Tom Brady is just a system QB is actually true or not, and so it's not worth debating, nor is it worth theorizing that the very unlikely is in fact the case. Which is to say that his monumental, historic, Hall of Fame level quarterback play with all the physical and mental skills he has shown, the accuracy, the arm strength, the pocket presence, and the command of the huddle, would somehow evaporate when forced to play for another team, is not worth debating to me. When a guy has done incredibly well and someone wants to put forth the idea that he's not ACTUALLY that good, I think the onus is kind of on that person to prove why.

    Secondly, grading quarterbacks is not rocket science. There are things you look for that translate to the next level. I can't guarantee to you that Kellen Moore is not going to be a good pro quarterback. But I'm not going to buy that he is, despite the many physical and mental qualities he lacks that would avail him at the next level, simply because...well, it COULD happen. Not a strong argument.

    One could even argue that there is no such thing as the "system" quarterback at the NFL level anymore, the way the game has evolved. There could be system players at other positions, but the quarterback position is not like them. Offenses have blended together to such a great degree that there are things you look for and you don't in certain systems, but the differences are getting finer, and finer, and finer...and it's getting to a point where a guy can either hack it or he can't, or the system (including the players surrounding the QB) and coaching can either hack it or they can't.
     
  29. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Expecting Newton to start as a rookie is awfully dangerous. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I would expect him to take some time to develop. Especially coming from the type of offense he's in right now.

    I would add LG, ILB, HB, another pass rusher, and a deep threat WR to the list of needs for the Dolphins.

    And CK, I just don't see it with Yates. I'd trust your eyes over mine when it comes to this, but I just don't see him as being anything more than a backup in the NFL. He was awful against Miami. I realize he doesn't have a ton of help, but I remember him missing his WR's pretty bad and throwing some bad INTs. I've seen him play a handful of times and just haven't been impressed at all.
     
  30. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    My point is Tom Brady is a great QB. Yet you could make the argument that he is a product of New England's system. Joe Montana was a great QB and he was the product of San Fran's system. You think it's unlikely that Tom Brady would have have failed if he was drafted by a different team? Why? He was a 6th round draft pick. He only got a chance to start because the first string QB got injured.

    I believe it is far more likely that Tom Brady would have been a backup QB for several years before getting a chance to start. He might have eventually developed into the QB he is today but he would not have three Super Bowl rings which, let's face it, is the main reason why everybody thinks he is so great.

    I agree. Grading quarterbacks is not rocket science, yet there have been plenty of busts over the years.

    I am not asking you to guarantee that Kellen Moore is going to be a good pro quarterback. Hell I have said several times myself that he will most likely struggle. But he has been great at Boise St. Not fair. Not good. But great. And greatness has a way of winning out.

    I don't know how else to say it. If you are 100% convinced that Kellen Moore will not succeed as an NFL QB then you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Personally I have to allow for the possibility that he could pan out because he has been so tremendous at the collegiate level.

    If I was Nappy Roots I would say "you could try and argue that, and you would be an idiot."
     
  31. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  32. ET7

    ET7 New Member

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    Bro sad part is this tema has so many holes still left b/c of horrible FA moves.

    We need a LG, we need a C, we need a speedy WR, we need 2 RBs next year, 1 def. with breakaway speed, we need more OLB depth, ILB depth bc i HOPE crowder is gone next year, (obv. dont know if Edds can start but def need a new ILB), need QB, and TE.
     
  33. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Michael Vick made the Pro Bowl his second year in the league. Newton has that potential as well. You draft him. You start him. Let him take his lumps as a rookie and he could be great after that.

    A left guard would be great but Incognito has done well and I expect Jerry to make that jump from rookie to pro next year. Plus we get Garner back. Not really a need so much as a want. A blocking tight end would help our running game more than a changing of the guard. (See what I did there. :lol:) I would add a blocking TE to the list and we should be able to find one of those in the mid to later rounds. Or even in free agency. (Although we haven't yet.)

    Good call on ILB. Not in the 1st round though. And don't forget we get Edds back from injury. All we need is a two down thumper with speed and we might already have that in Dobbins. Maybe we sign Dhani Jones. He should be a free agent.

    HB, another pass rusher, and a deep threat WR are needs/wants that I feel we can address in the 2012 draft. Re-sign Ronnie Brown and we are set for a few years. Ricky should have another year in him. Noel Devine would add a new dimension to our offense but we have bigger needs that should be addressed in the 1st round and he won't be there in the 3rd. (I would trade up to get him if possible.)

    Cameron Wake leads the league in sacks. What more do you want? Another pass rusher would be great, but we should not use a high draft pick on one. Not this year anyway.

    A quarterback or center would be the way I'd go in the 1st round. I would love to draft A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Ryan Broyles, or Jonathan Baldwin but not at the expense of a center or QB.

    I would draft Jeremy Kerley or Marquis Maze in the 5th round to return kicks.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I haven't seen the Miami game. But he went 12 for 21 in the game so he didn't exactly have a lot of at-bats to try and influence the outcome of the game passing the ball. That by the way is a 60% completion which isn't bad. Definitely one of his two bad games on the season.

    But in his other 10 games he was 229 of 329 (69.6%) for 2847 yards (8.7 YPA, 12.4 YPC), 18 TDs and 2 INTs...and that's against the likes of LSU, Georgia Tech, Rutgers, East Carolina, Clemson, Virginia, William & Mary, Florida State, NC State and Duke...so it's not like he faced a bunch of FCS teams.

    I'm just saying I like the guy, I think he's come a long way as a QB and he might have the most pro-type experience of any other QB in this draft. Not the most talent, but the polish, mechanics, timing, style of offense...those are all working in his favor. And it helps he's got a little talent, too.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not to mention T.J. Yates threw what should have been a touchdown pass against the Hurricanes, on 1st & Goal from the 9 yard line, but the receiver fumbled the ball on the 1 yard line as he was entering the end zone.

    And I swear to God almost every time I see the guy scramble or get sacked, I can see exactly why. All his receivers are usually tightly covered, every single one of them seems to have a tendency to get physically erased with a hard press, and none of them come even close to getting off those jams and uncovering.

    Note: I initially though they ruled that fumble to be one of his 2 interceptions, which was not the case. His 2nd pick of the day was a slant pattern where his WR physically lost the battle at the line and the DB tipped the ball up for another defender to come down with.

    Further Note: As I go over the Virginia Tech game, I see right away that one of his interceptions was a perfectly placed pass to a WR deep down the field that should have been a touchdown but the WR caught the ball and then let it get wrestled out of his hands by the DB on the way down, touchback. The DB never even turned his head around to look for the ball, Highsmith just caught it, and then gave it to him on the way down. SMH. Second interception was pretty savvy by VT, the back side corner saw his receiver assignment go in motion inside and end up faking an end-around so he kept backing up all the way until he was patrolling like a deep safety defending the post. Yates just didn't count on that. I don't see that happening in the pros very often, was a heck of a play by the DB. Yates put the ball 60 yards down the field as the crow flies, and it had a lot of air under it, really allowed his WR to run under it in stride, but he was out-muscled for position by the 2nd CB-turned-FS. After that, the 3rd interception was him down 26-10 in the 4th quarter just getting in total desperation mode throwing deep without checking to see if he'd successfully looked off the safety. And again, 26-10 with 4 minutes remaining, he telegraphs a deep ball a little bit and a corner (the same one as before, Hosley) came off his WR assignment, ran deep and undercut the ball. Kudos to Beamer's crew for figuring out a game plan to try and take advantage of UNC's vertical passing tendencies. Interesting to note that despite some of these interceptions, UNC's skill players were in the end zone twice but screwed it up by turning it over (Highsmith allowing the ball to be wrestled away from him, and Elzy fumbling as he's nearing the goal line). Could have been a different ball game.
     
  36. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    I disagree. A new center and a blocking TE could fix our running game. And fix it immediately. We also need a QB who throws more touchdowns than interceptions. Those three things would make us a playoff team.

    Don't forget. We are are two plays away from being 8-4. If Sean Smith or Nolan Carroll had made those interceptions... Ahh, but what are you gonna do?

    My point is there are less holes than we think and we get Edds, Odrick, Garner, and Will Allen back from IR next year. Plus Jake Long and Brandon Marshall will be 100% healthy.

    Yes we could use a speedy WR, but that will have to wait until the 2012 draft unless we can pick up a free agent or find a guy like Mike Wallace in the 3rd or 4th round. (Man I wish we would have snagged Santonio Holmes). However we can win with Marshall, Bess, and Hartline.

    We don't need 2 RBs next year. We should re-sign Ronnie Brown.

    We do need more OLB and ILB depth, but every team needs depth. Always.

    Fasano is our starting TE for the immediate future. Personally I'm fine with that. In my eyes he is more than capable of working the seam and very effective the redzone.
     
  37. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Here's a name for you: Santana Moss. He is a free agent next year.

    Okay. Stop rolling your eyes or shaking your head. Here's my thought. If we draft a QB or a Center in the 1st round then we cannot really address WR this year in the draft because we don't have a 2nd round pick. Yeah we might find a starter in the 3rd round but that's easier said than done. And this front office's track record as far as wideouts go is not great (Ernest Wilford, Patrick Turner). Moss is leading the 'skins in receptions and yards. He's still got a little gas left in the tank.

    He has been the #1 his entire career but we would sign him to be our #2. He would stretch the field opposite Marshall for a year or two buying us time to draft a speedster. I'm talking stop gap here people. This is assuming Hartline isn't up to the task of course. I would still give him another year to take his game to the next level. This is also assuming Bess' ceiling is as your slot receiver and not your #2 which might not be the case.
     
  38. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    How many OCs has he been through? your telling me that this amazing offense is so light years ahead of the rest of the league, that anyone can call plays, and anyone could throw the ball? lol.
     
  39. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    youd be suprised. I did research on drafting QB issues a couple years ago, more specifically on WHERE they were drafted. QBs are such a premium that they almost ALL are drafted higher then they should. QBs that should go in round 2, go in the mid to late first. QBs that are round 3s and 4s sneak into the 2nd round, year after year.
     
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  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I somewhat agree although I think the most pronounced effect is seen in 2nd round to 1st round. The early 2nd round is a real hot spot of desire for a quarterback because the teams picking at the very top are often characterized by A) QB trouble, since this is very much a QB driven league, and B) They are often too gun shy to make the QB their top investment in the Draft. Meanwhile the teams at the bottom of the picking order are a lot less likely to either need a QB or to feel they need one, because they're winning, and so they're less likely to grab one of the guys that fall beyond the super upper crust.

    Because of that high 2nd round hot spot, you have teams wanting to trade up into the bottom of the 1st round in order to get ahead of those teams. I think Losman was picked that way, Flacco as well. The trading up thing didn't happen for Drew Brees but the fact that he went #1 in the 2nd round shows you what a hot spot that area is, which induces the teams to trade ahead of the teams at the top of the 2nd.
     
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