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Here's The UGLY thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Southbeach, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    IMO, we are out of the playoffs. I know that no one, especially myself, is going to be hoping that we lose games from here on out.

    However, there has been an on going debate if a team is better off, after being out of the playoffs, to lose games and get a higher draft pick.

    I am NOT saying we want our team to lose, just asking if it may end up better, for the future of our team, if the results were more negative than positive over the last 4 games?

    TUFF question. Thoughts?
     
    the 23rd likes this.
  2. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I doubt Sparano is going to allow that, given that his job depends on what we do the next few games. But I think we'd be better off with a high pick, and we'd be best off using it on a franchise QB.
     
  3. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO our team would be far better off if the outcomes are positive. Ideally, Henne plays well enough to not foster some ill conceived panic to acquire a new QB. He's had over an 80 rating in 7 of his 11 games so the odds are in favor of him playing that well in about 3 of the remaining 4. If some measure of faith in the QB is restored then it will be easier to bring in a better OC and attract FAs, not to mention the general mood of the team will be more positive. IMO that would far outweigh being 3 or 4 spots higher in the draft.
     
  4. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    In ASOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO WAY am I saying that our team should play to lose. The question is if we would be better off if it did happen?
     
  5. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Losing NEVER betters winning. Period.
     
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  6. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Great point. If Henne shows to be the answer, he far exceeds any higher pick. I could not agree more.
     
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  7. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Another very good point with this team. I believe that winning is more important to these young guys than any pick. I have to say that I did not think the same last year.
     
  8. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Anyone who wants the team to lose games for a draft pick is a horrible fan.
    It is not a tough question it is a ridiculous one IMO.
     
  9. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Yeah, as fans we always want our team to show up and have winning as their #1 thing on their mind. F losing.
     
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  10. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Never want them to lose period. Sure it would be nice to get a higher draft pick, but there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever want them to lose. Ever.
     
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  11. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    I won't us to lose the last four games so we can get a high draft pick because there's no way we make the playoffs, what's the point of finishing 10-6 or 9-7 and get a low pick.
     
  12. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    To me every season it's either playoffs or a high draft pick.
     
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  13. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    So you will be rooting for the Jets to beat the Dolphins Sunday?

    I'll never wrap my mind around that logic..... Ever!
     
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  14. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Never understood the idea of wanting a team to tank games to get a higher draft pick.

    It's a long offseason. God forbid, anyone of us could have something terrible happen where we don't even make it to next season. Live in the Now. I want to see the Dolphins win every time they take the field.
     
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  15. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Correct that was the question and you know there's going to be a lot of knee jerk lash out posts thinking the other way.

    Look we'd all be lying to say our draft position would be a much better situation if we lost out because it's fact.
    However the long term success for this team is better if the team can find a rhythm and win some tough games.

    Since were pretty much done I'd hope to see a loosening of the philosophy and some wide open game plans.
    Game plans where we change things up, use multiple formations, motion, etc to disguise plays. Spread formations and aggressive Offense mixed with a commitment to run.

    It's time for this staff to simply experiment with more aggressive phases of the system.
    They have nothing to be conservative to protect at this point.
    Just let this team win or lose a game based on their talents or lack of talents without limitations being set by the staff.
     
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  16. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Amen to that please! This is the only thing that would make losing enjoyable to me.
     
  17. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Losing won't help us much in the draft when looking for a QB.

    IMO Luck is the only guy worth taking in the top 10, and we aren't getting him.

    Edit: But IF by some chance Henning stays here (PLEASE NO), but if he does - I can see them targeting Mallett because he is a good play action QB, and would fit the Henning system. But I am not sold on him as a top 10 pick, but he is the second best QB in the draft imo, and wouldn't mind if we took him WITHOUT having to trade up, or lose out.
     
  18. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    I won't be rooting for the Jets but I can tell you that I don't really care about the out outcome of this game as much as I used to.
     
  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Trying to get a high 1st round pick is a little futile this year.

    We don't need an OLB.
    Don't need a DE.
    Don't need a QB (Luck won't fall to us)
    Don't need a DT.
    Don't need a CB that high. (Peterson won't make it to us)
    Don't need a LT.

    The above are basically the top 10 picks (positional wise) in the upcoming draft.

    That leaves one position left: WR...... and it's doubtful AJ Green falls to us. It would absolutely suck this draft to end up with the 7th or 8th pick with Green, Peterson, Bowers, and Quinn off the table and not being able to trade back. We'd probably be stuck reaching for a player whom we could've gotten with the 15th pick instead. LOL.

    If we're in the top 14, I think we'll be boxed in to drafting either a RT (Sherrod).... Pass Rusher/LB (Bowers, Quinn, Ayers).... RB (Ingram)..... WR (Green or Jones)..... and even CB (if Amukamara falls and represents too much value).
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Although, I have to say....... the though of Marshall-AJ Green-Bess make me a little giddy. Try and double team that s#!t.

    Add in Mankins, a great COP back like Kendall Hunter, and a complimentary TE...... we'd be loaded!!
     
  21. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yes, we do.
     
  22. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Especially because its the Jets !!!!! NO TO LOSING THIS SUNDAY !
     
  23. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I'm rooting for change this regime has gone backwards every season over the last 3 years Sparano is nice but not going to get us their

    I want to beat the Jets than lose out sorry I'm a bad fan for wanting a better team by whatever means necessary it's been to long for mediocrity
     
  24. Moves

    Moves Well-Known Member

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    We aren't out of the playoff race. Stop this illogical nonsense.
     
  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    All of the QBs who fit Henning's system are either retired, or dead.
     
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  26. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    LMAO. No offense, I agree with you. But if we were capable of doing any of that, we'd have been doing it a long time ago. The only game where we even semi-loosened up was vs Tennessee. The game where Henning thought Penne was going to be the QB. If I had to guess, I'd say that our OC either doesn't like or doesn't trust Henne. Those two are oil and water, one needs to go & I'm begging its Henninfg. If that guy is still here next year I'll be a Bucs fan.
     
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  27. AbideN703

    AbideN703 Yes, I'd hit it

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    I agree with him. I want the Phins to finish 10-6 but won't be upset if they finish 6-10. If you don't win this year, I want the team to be in the best position to win next year. If that means needing a higher pick to do so, let's do it.
     
  28. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Dude, no offense taken because I totally get what you are saying except for the bolded.
    Are we capable of loosening up the game plans and aggresively letting this team win or lose by it's talents. Yes we are.

    Are those in charge willing to do so?
    That's where I'd agree that they will not do so.
     
  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Yeah, I agree. What I meant is that if we were going to open things up we'd have done it by now. I've being saying all year that we don't attack the defense schematically. We're just trying to get to 3rd and 2 so we can hand if off to Polite. And if its 3rd and 8, we might just hand it to Polite anyway. You never know when a FB dive might go for 80 yds, right? :shifty:

    Henning and/or Sparano refuse to open the offense up, and I'm not optimistic they're going to do it now, especially with Hartline and Marshall banged up. If anything, we're going to see an even more conservative approach IMO.
     
  30. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    FellowMember Southbeach:
    interesting comment, didn't expect this from you. kudos!
    no team can ever afford to actually play to lose, very bad medicine
    however
    playing to win can depend on your ultimate designs & definition of winning
    have to consider many things, after losing all hope for a play-off
    a little imagination & right thinking in these last & meaningless battles
    could go far in preparing for our next campaign in many ways
    the draft being but one of them, experimentation another


    ugly is a perception colored by personal experience & emotion.
    nothing ugly about the post.
    it is simply an honest, straight forward statement. it is what it is.

    wonder what would MacArthur have done? his decisions led to the ultimate defeat of Japan
    to the few surviving veterans of that long ago conflict
    my respect & belated best wishes on this day (Dec 7th) that will live forever in infamy

    http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/us/pearl-harbor-remembrance-day
     
  31. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Really?...... So tell me who's a LOCK to supplant Henne as the starter. I'm all ears. Or are you one of the people who think drafting a QB in the first round automatically makes him a franchise QB?.... or that he'll even be NFL ready within a year or 2?

    Would you undeniably want Sanchez over Henne if the trade were offered? How about Stafford?


    How about JaMarcus Russell? Brady Quinn? Vince Young? Matt Leinart? Alex Smith? Jason Cambell? Tim Tebow?

    These are 9 of the 15 1st round QBs taken since 2005.
     
  32. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    FellowMember ToddsPhins:
    interesting post, having said that...
    I'd take Sanchez, Ryan or Flacco over Henne
    but your point is well taken if not flawed
    do the same mathematics over the last decade
    including the QB's picked in later rounds
    I bet there will emerge a pattern
    that correlates in what round a QB is picked
    with his overall success in the NFL
    that in general, favors the higher picks

    you usually get what you pay for in life
    there are no sure things but we need
    to take a chance & roll the dice on this one
    we go nowhere w/o the Franchise QB
     
  33. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    A number of VG posts and points. Let me expand on this a bit. Up until the Cleve game, I took each and every win, and each and every loss to heart, as well as very seriously. After the Brown's game, the intensity level dropped considerably.

    Do I still want my team to play to win? ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, YES!!!

    However, I would now like to see some of the younger guys, like Jones, Carroll, Moore, Wallace, Alama-Francis, etc get some playing time to see what we have. More importantly, I want to see us open things up. Forget about playing not to lose, play to win, and unleash The Henne, for better or worse. The wins or losses are no longer as important, at least to me, as they were before. The development of the team is as important, if not moreso, than it was.

    This is a completely separate issue. During our 1-15 season, how many were hoping for the #1 pick above wins more than one? This is different than what we are talking about now, as we had no talent, and ended up getting a great player.
     
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  34. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Outside of Luck, the guys from this upcoming draft are not as solid or NFL ready as Ryan, Flacco, or Freeman were IMO...... and slightly behind Sanchez for the most part too.

    These 2011 guys lean more towards the "bust" category of 1st rounders like Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, or Dan McGuire than they do towards an Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, or Joe Flacco.

    Patience is a virtue my friend..... both in developing a player AND in drafting a new one rather than hastily reaching for the first guy you can get. So far, this is not the draft to use a 1st on a QB outside of Luck. YOU DON'T ROLL THE DICE WITH A 1ST ROUND PICK WHEN THERE ARE TOO MANY QUESTION MARKS SURROUNDING THE GUYS AVAILABLE. You're logic is backwards. What you're recommending is like playing Black Jack and hitting on 17.

    Henne is much less of a risk than the 1st round QBs outside Luck will be. At least we know Henne can come from behind to beat Brady and the Pats..... or beat the Jets 2 of 3 times he's faced them.... or throw 21 completions in a row. If you wanna use a 3rd or 4th on a QB for competition AND to replace Thigpen, by all means go ahead.
     

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