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QB not all to blame

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by HULKFish, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    Well after last night Sanchez stands at 16 TD's and 11 Interceptions... Not too far off the mark of Henne, 12 TD's and 15 Interceptions. Both are developing at the same rate IMO. The exception that Sanchez has a better OC and more speed outside.

    I'm not giving up on Henne yet, and neither should you! :up:
     
  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Well, like I've said, I'm still a believer in Henne but he needs to show some more in these next 4 games.
     
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  3. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    On the plus side Sanchez was even worse than Henne was this Sunday.
     
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  4. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    What was Sanchez QB rating last night???
     
  5. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    27, and Henne has a higher QBR than Sanchez for the year. Just sayin'. :shifty:
     
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  6. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Thanks, I looked for it on NFL.com in game stats, but couldnt find it. figured it was low.....maybe Sanchez should have just thrown ever pass into the ground!:lol::wink2:
     
  7. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Does it matter? Neither one of these guys can carry bradys jock.As long as the pats have him will be competing for 2nd or 3rd place unless we find a stud and his name is not chad henne.
     
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  8. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    You know how Dolphins fans are. They freak out and get whiny and impatient if we don't have instant Marino.
    Henne needs time to develop. He is going to be inconsistent because he is a young QB. I look forward to seeing him with an OC who has an actual plan instead of one that wings it.
    Playing it by ear is good occasionally but Henning has lost all concept of situations and how to handle them.
    Sure Henne had a bad game we all saw it but to throw him away under these set of circumstances this season is irrational and foolish.
    The board this week has been like kindergarten class that was denied there snack.
     
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  9. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    1 random thought to add:

    Donovan McNabb has the exact same number of TDs and INTs with a lower QB rating than Henne....... and he just signed an $89 million extension.

    QBs cant do it by themselves...... Peyton Manning is having trouble w/o Dallas Clark and Austin Collie (he's 1-4 with a bazillion INTs in the past 5 games w/o them)

    McNabb needs weapons to thrive.... as does Peyton. Henne is no different. (no, he doesn't have weapons. He has one weapon, Marshall, who isn't really a weapon b/c defenses gameplan to take him out)
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Does anyone think that Coach is telling the truth when he says that he honestly thinks Chad Henne has progressed as a football player?

    The benching of the QB and one of the worst scoring offenses in the league inspires my question...lol
     
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  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You underrate Bess and Hartline. With Marshall Bess and hartline we have a darn decent corps. All elite WRs are gameplanned against. We make them pay, or in henne's case, we dont.
     
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  12. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Yes, I think in many ways he has PROGRESSED....for me I wouldn't use the term RE-GRESSED in other areas, but rather, Henne has not shown progression in them (that is a concern and fair critique of his performance this season). That is a concern, but he has progressed in several areas.
     
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  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Allow me to be real honest here:

    I do not trust Chad Henne the Quarterback, I do not trust his accuracy, I do not trust his decision making, I do not trust his athleticism, I no longer trust his "cannon arm".

    I do trust his toughness and I do trust his desire to be great.

    That does not mean I toss dirt on him, or want him out of Miami as I do believe he should start the last 4 games of the season, I keep waiting for Henne to turn that corner and he...just...never...does.

    For me, he has 4 games, show me something.
     
  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yes, I do. I've seen clear improvement in his touch passes, in going through his progressions, and now feeling the pressure and tucking and running (pocket awareness.) He has obvious issues still, like throwing too many interceptions and is inconsistent. But in the end, what young QB ISN'T inconsistent? I'm still in the group that believes in him and thinks he needs more time and a new system. I would like to see more from him in the next 4 games.

    The benching was a direct result of his inability to finish drives, that's another issue he needs to work on.

    But think about it, after last season people said Henne's biggest weaknesses were touch passes, staring down receivers, and no pocket awareness.

    Yup, the same things he's improved on this season.
     
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  15. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hey, it's not life and death, right Pad?
     
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  16. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    funny, you raise interesting areas of where you do and dont, and frankly, this one I disagree with. Right now, I dont trust his desire to be great. I would trust his HOPING to end up great...but I dont trust that he understands how much is really in his control and on him to BECOME great. I get the sense he HOPES something happens to make him great.

    Its subtle but he is so GUN shy right now....he isnt trusting his GUN Slinger side of his given talents. His brain is messed up right now, in how he speaks, and body language and just a lack of FIRE. Something has to give, I hope something clicks...but dont know anymore until he decides its ONLY ON HIS SHOULDERS.
     
  17. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    He did seem to be way more aware in the pocket last game. I don't know if he has cured his staring down though.
     
  18. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If we had a dominant running game....you wouldnt be saying this....and Henne's problem with zone coverage would still be there. He needs the off season to work on that aspect of the game...it only comes with time and experience.
     
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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    No, you overrate Bess and Hartline when Marshall is on the sideline. LOL No offense, but I watch a lot of NFL football. I see what other teams have. Hartline is nothing special as a #2 QB..... and when he's needed to become our #1 by default, then it's even worse.

    Bess is awesome in the slot. With Marshall out and Hart on the sideline, he's NOT a #1 and can be taken out by defenses when they don't have to worry about Marshall. Individually, I'd agree that they're 3 quality receivers to have as a team's 1, 2, and 3. But all together, on the same team, they're void in a huge aspect of the game: speed and a vertical threat. They're basically 3 possession receivers. You cant attack every inch of the field with 3 possession WRs, or more importantly, you don't force defenses do defend every inch of the field with 3 possession guys.

    Without having another quality WR, defenses can continue to gameplan to stop Marshall b/c we offer little threat anywhere else.

    I'm sorry, but there's much more to it than simply saying Marshall, Bess, and Hart are a darn decent corps.
     
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  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He is right about that, now he has to play like it.

    Underthrowing Hartline twice one for a TD, the other for a long gain, was not what I had in mind.
     
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  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Bro, he did the same thing last season, big game big int's and several int's, and we did have a dominant running game in 09.

    That is one piece of fruit plucked off of the trust tree VT.
     
  22. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    That is the whole problem in a nut shell. He`s had ample time to show great improvement by now and he hasnt done that. I was a Henne believer but from what I`ve seen he`s nothing more than a average QB at best. I`ve grown tired of his " I dont let these things bother me- it aint life or death", approach also. Be accountable and admit your play is borderline horrible and admit you need to show drastic improvement. Sometimes I just dont know where his head is at. I`m starting to question his smarts as a QB, period.
     
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  23. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Henne isn't a fiery guy, he just isn't. Eli Manning is the same exact way. Just because he doesn't show a lot of fire doesn't mean it doesn't burn inside of him.
     
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  24. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    Say what you will but he needs a guy with some speed. And a new OC! Henning has become far too predictable. I can sit at home and call the play half the time, maybe more! Imagine the guys studying film???

    Last year Henne had no problem hitting Ginn on the Go route, this year he underthrows them constantly! I don't believe that is ability but rather something else? Henning is obviously putting something in his head that is making him hesitate before throwing the ball. That's MHO...
     
  25. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Sure, but is still a concern of how SCARED I think he is. At least Eli has a blood line and big brother and father to chat with and say WTF. I hope Henne finds his GURU and says TEACHER, help me...help myself! LOL....I so root for the kid, but he had concerns coming out of Michagin, and some things are still labeling him a certain way. I want that lightbulb to go off, and stay ON, bright!

    So true, I never thought he had issues with deep balls, but right now....if its not his touch and feel for depth, its his ability to trust and process what he sees. Is he just overwhelmed right now? I hope he can decompress soon and give him self a break and regroup.
     
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  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Besides a new OC, what Henne REALLY needs is a damn running game.
     
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  27. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I believe you overestimate them. At least Hartline. Hartline is good when another guy is there to get coverage away from him. He has looked his best in games when Bess goes off or Marshall is covered well. He's not consistent with separation either. You're basically doing the opposite of TP with the Henne INT. Take Green Bay's WR's, Houston's WR's, the Cowboy's WR's. Then take a look at their TE's. You can't seriously place us near them. We match up well with number one's but as a whole we're not close.

    Even look at NE. We have the better number 1. Similar Slot receivers. I only put Hartline slightly over Tate. But boy are their TE's monsters. We also don't have Woodhead's receiving out of the backfield or The law firm's power at this point. Those teams are set up to win based on the strength of their QB's (they get people who capitalize on them) and their coaching. Last night especially, it was like NE couldn't make a bad call. And the ability to audible out to at least one other pass play to take advantage of the coverage would be nice.
     
  28. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Oh I agree, he does seem to be playing scared sometimes. Actually, I thought he had beaten that when he got benched because he played great and aggressively in the Titans and Raiders games. Even against the Browns he was aggressive. I just hope the poor performance and 3 picks doesn't make him go back to playing scared.

    Hell, he shouldn't. His job is on the line, and he knows it. Really excited to see how he responds.
     
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  29. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    go for broke in the 2011 draft
    you usually get what you pay for
    we go no where w/o the Franchise QB
    Andrew Luck is first to come mind
    but their are several excellent prospects
     
  30. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    Sorry the23rd, not ready to give up on Henne yet... Does everyone remember how long it has taken to find a guy with Henne's skillset??? No, I mean really think about what we've been through.

    Fielder was fun at times, a good runner, didn't have good accuracy though but OG made up for that...
    Ray Lucas sucked horribly!
    Trent Green was good for a few games
    Brian Griese - Garbage
    Culpepper - Awful...
    John Beck - Laughable
    Cleo Lemon - LOL!
    Chad Pennington - Great for one season, but noodle arm

    I mean really take your mind back to these days and think about it... That being said, Henne needs to improve and quickly, to not end up just another addition to the post-Marino list. I think he will.
     
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  31. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Did you just compare Manning to Henne? LMAO! J/K. I thought I'd get that out there before some ****** asks it but is serious.

    Anyhow, Sanchez and Henne, in their last 7 games, have 8 TD's and 7 TD's respectively, with 11 INT's each. The Jests however are 5-2 and the Dolphins are 3-4 during that time.
     
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  32. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Hallefrigginlujah! I'm so tired of hearing how solid those guys are. They aren't. Not even close, not as a group. They don't stretch the field, they can't dictate coverage. They're an easy group to defend, especially for good defenses. Same with our RBs, individually they are fine, but as a tandem, they offer no real threat to defenses. They can't get to the edge, they cant break a long run, they're not used in the pass game. Our OL, same thing. Solid as a individuals, but they pose no threat. They're not blowing people off the ball consistently, they lack the agility to support a screen game, they cant move laterally for a zone/read game, our #1 pulling guard can never find anyone on the 2nd level. Our entire offense is full of nice pieces from 3 or 4 different puzzles. They look good until you try to put them together and then you figure out you can't do much with them. Our coordinator clearly doesn't know what to do with them, not that there is an easy answer. We have a rocket armed, down the field, outside the numbers QB, trying to throw a million touch passes into microscopic windows underneath coverages. And somehow we're surprised when he struggles? I don't think so. Our offense is a mess from the OC down to the FB. They don't fit as a group. They have no staple, no identity, nothing they can rely on consistently, and they are over matched when they play good defenses.

    Either that or it's all Henne's fault.
     
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  33. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm starting to question your smarts. Anyone with eyes can see Henne needs improvement. The entire offense, the coaching staff, the GM, they all need improvement. Why do you need Henne to come out in public and flog himself, for your personal enjoyment? So that the media can stockpile more ammo to ridicule and eventually hang him with? Nonsense. IMO Henne doesnt need better media relations, he needs better receivers to throw to, and better running backs to hand off to. He needs to learn to alter his delivery sometimes so that he's not getting a zillion balls batted down. He needs to scramble without losing focus down field. He needs to use his eyes to move/influence defenders, not stare down his WRs. He needs to work on his play action fakes, and his footwork inside the pocket. He needs to stop trying to be Chad Pennington, and start slinging the ball around like he did last year. Just not to the TEs & RBs, he can keep throwing touch passes to them. Those are things that are going to make him better, and make the team better. Coming out and degrading himself in the media? That does nothing.
     
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  34. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think last game made me come to that realization too. He definitely shows a desire to get better, and he has shown he can do the job some games. But the off throws, and the bad decisions are just starting to pile up.

    I'm still optimistic, but admittedly a lot less than I was going into the season.
     
  35. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We still need replacements at LG and C, a complementary strong TE to go with Fasano, and an RB to make up for Ricky and/or Ronnie leaving. As well as some depth in a few other areas.

    I'm sorry, but even if the #1/#2 team isn't looking to take Luck (which I highly doubt), it will take a lot to talk them out of it, and last I checked we don't have a round 2 pick. So it will probably take the better portion of our draft, to get one player. No thanks.
     
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  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Funny how people say they do not stretch the field when Hartline was open deep three times against the Browns and has been open deep more times during the season. That is the times we have seen.
     
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  37. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I agree to a point Pads...his Ints are painful...and while I believe it can be fixed..Im worried he'll go back in a shell to do it.

    Somehow we have got to give this kid the right coach...theres to much there not to give him an offseason with the right guy...

    Ironically...whether Henne becomes anything..may boil down to Sparano and Ireland. Its up to them to find the right guy...

    Not sure Im all giddy they will even try and do so
     
  38. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Big game= Any game where Henne has a bad stat line or plays poorly. Got ya. Jets games = not big games. @ Carolina. vs New England. @ Jacksonville. Not big games. Last minute drives to beat the Patriots, Bucs & Jets. Not big games though. 21 straight completions vs Jax. Small game. Erased an 18 point deficit on the road against Tennessee. Irrelevant. Came from 27 down and nearly tied the game vs Houston. So what.

    Dude, you're so biased it's funny. First you say let's bench Henne to save he season. Then it was lets go with the WildThig. Thig bombed and then after the Raiders game it was Henne "turned the corner" in practice. Now you're back to bashing the guy. I'll give you credit, you may drop a nugget every once in a while, but there are so many soup sandwiches in between, its hilarious. I hope some day you'll be as good at understanding the game as you are at posting nonsensical drivel. WADR, of course.
     
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  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Don't be so pessimistic dude. You think Ireland can't see what's going on? He saw that air raid shelter of a secondary we had last year and he got rid of Gibril. He saw our LBs couldnt cover a mattress with a blanket, and Torbor, Ayodele, Porter, Taylor are all gone. Teddy cant catch a cold, he's gone.
    Smiley and Grove can't stay healthy, they're gone. I expect Crowder to be next in line. Just b/c our FO don't publicly bash their guys doesn't mean they arent watching and making plans to upgrade the team. We spent last season addressing the defense. Now we've got a new DC, a few new pieces and and Top 10 unit. This off season will be the offense's turn. We need skill guys to put around our QB, and with the strength and depth we have at other areas, we're finally in a position to do it.

    We saved a ton of cash by cutting Porter, Smiley, Grove, Wilson, Torbor & Ayodele and we can save a bunch more if we axe Will Allen and cut ties with Ronnie. That's money we can spend on the TON of skill guys who will be available during the offseason. have a look:

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/wr.html
    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/rb.html

    And of course we've got the draft. Merling, Edds and Odrick should basically count as extra draft picks next year. We're in a good spot right now. We just need to finish the job.
     
  40. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    I agree GMJohnson, though I'd like to see Ronnie and Ricky stay and draft a stud RB. Mark Ingram would be nice!

    At WR all we need is a speedster with good hands...

    John Jerry looks to be a real quality RG. Draft another stud for LG and upgrade the Center if possible and we should be good on O! And of course don't forget that new OC...
     

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