Just want people to read this while their projecting the QB'S fate..

I'm not addressing other situations. I'm addressing this one..... and not all drills are harmful.

 

He has the ability to kill a play which is different. It's different than just having a QB say "kill, kill" which automatically defaults to a preset alternate play. An audible you can make any play from the formation/personnel on the field. You can tell the difference.

 

It is hasty if there doesn't appear anywhere to go with the ball when the bell "goes off".... and again, we don't have the fastest WR corps in the NFL. They take longer for their routes to unfold than many teams. Are you arguing that? If you take away the bell, then at the 4 second mark, he won't be conditioned to get rid of the ball. As such, he can wait longer to wait for a play to open up. He can wait until the pressure dictates him to get the ball off rather than the bell dictating it.

 

I disagree with the idea that a wide recevier corp needs to be fast to have their routes unfold. Miami has a very quick wide receiver corp. Take Brian Hartline's long passes, each one was thrown within the 5 seconds and he was down the field. Thigpen's 20 yard pass to Hartline was just in a few seconds.

 

You're not apples to apples here.

The spread also offers more options to throw to within 3-5 seconds than what Henne typically has. When Henne has 3 receivers on the field, his numbers improve greatly..... and if our 4th were at all reliable, he'd probably do well in a 4 WR set too.

This team isn't really the most conducive for a QB looking for WRs who get lots of separation..... nor is it conducive for a QB to have a lot of passing options.

 

I don't think a corps needs to be fast from every spot, but ALL our WRs' run a 4.5 or slower and our TE runs probably a 4.8. As a whole, they are slow. They take time for routes to open up. This has been stated numerous times by people who have paid attention to it in real time at games.

 

Bess gets open lickity split, same with Hartline. A lot of faster wide receivers take longer to get open.

 

That is the problem with the QB.

 

Nope, the bell was like training wheels for a young Qb, sooner or later that young Qb has to say "that is not working for me" and make adjustments himself to himself out on the field.

 

easier said than done once you've been conditioned and are someone who tries to do what your coaches initially want you to do.

 

Against zone coverage, a receiver doesn't "get open". The receiver runs his route and if it was a good call, he'll be open. Only against Man coverage or a busted play can a receiver "get open". Incidentally, Henne does better against Man than Cover 2. That tells me that our receivers (Read Bess and Marshall) can get open against man while the other receivers (Fasano and Hartline) get open against man when they start to shift coverage to those two. What it tells me about zone coverage is that our receivers are being given the wrong routes as they are routinely covered and rarely get separation besides Bess. And Bess gets separation because of his cuts and breaking tackles. I see a lot of playcall deficiency there.

 

Funny, it tells me that Henne has a problem reading the zone.

 

That does separate the good qbs from the bad ones

 

That didn't even make sense. The only way to read a zone is before the snap. When you read the zone and change the formation and routes. That comment wasn't even sensible. It told you that because you don't understand what you're talking about. I'll even spend an hour in paint to give you a visual aid:



You can't read a damn cover 2 if the co-ordinator called a **** call. I drew up a cover 2 zone and some standard routes (Fly, Post, hitch, RB flare). Those would never work against a Cover 2. What would work is audibling out of the play at the LOS and choosing routes that attack the underneath middle, curls, or seems. If you aren't going to give me a good answer or at least pretend to understand what I said, just don't answer.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with TP here, but that would actually indicate a good or bad coaching staff. Do you honestly believe being a good QB would break psychological training? I'm not even sure if they have conditioned him as I've seen no evidence of it but surely you jest when you make the claim that your arbitrary definition of a "good QB" entails breaking conditioning. So would a clever dog stop salivating at the sound of the bell when Pavlov rang it?

 

it is not "break" psychological training. it is incorporating the learning and taking it to the next level. A good quarterback can do that, a poor quarterback can not.

Humans are not dogs.

 

In your paint, the tight end is open

Also are you sure the Dolphins do not call combo routes.

 

If you think humans don't have the psychological weakness of dogs, go to Vegas and watch the slots. While Poker and Blackjack (especially) are easier to win, they like the pretty lights and sounds. "Incorporating the learning and taking it to the next level" by far is one of the most bull**** statements I have seen from you. What does it even mean? So he's supposed to break with what was inculcated into him (1, 2, 3, 4, sack) and learn that in real time the conditioning goes out the window? Then what was the point of it in the first place? Why not let him have to think on his feet in practice so he would have practice thinking on his feet for the game. That's like telling a RB, he has 3 seconds to get in the hole each play. Then, when he gets in the game, holes take varying times to develop because of possibly bad blocking, delayed runs, and he just runs to the hole and into a man or an O lineman. Is it his fault he was trained to be impatient? Why not just simulate in game situations rather than some arbitrary rules?

 

I've been screaming this for a while now. Run the ball with Marshall in the slot on the left with Fasano on the RT's right.

The Jets personnel would not include Bryan Thomas most likely or Calvin Pace, my guess being Thomas. If the Jets are forced to utilize a 3-3-5 then that OLB may have to play the strong side with Fasano still there. Marshall may be on an island to block against the nickel either Revis or Kyle Wilson. That's a mis match in the running game. If they bring Calvin Pace on the weak side then Fasano is going to give whoever is lining up as the farthest right Jet LB absolute hell (pretty sure it would be Scott). I would even argue that going 4 WR would be great if we had that many to line up that were actually good.

Miami dropped 445 yards on the Jets last time. The defensive performance must improve however. Last time Miami did not get pressure on the QB. I would suggest playing Wake almost exclusively at SOLB. Woody is beat up last I checked and simply cannot stop him.

 

Henning ruined our season...

 

Love your points here but the reality is the more focus that is put on NOT doing something the more likely it will happen. At some point Henne's success, if there's going to be success, is going to hinge on his freedom to play and grow along with the understanding that trust comes from his coaches. Trust does not exist at this point and I fear things will get worse before they get better.

 

I would start by asking if Phil Simms was asked "How many franchise Quarterbacks do you think are in the league right now?" I would start with that question because I know most analysts answer - "15, maybe".......

So here is what you have done. You have taken a conversation where Phil Simms could have had any number of 32 quarterbacks in his head. If I were the league observer (like Simms) and I was being asked a general question about quarterback play, the first quarterback coming to my mind is certainly not Chad Henne. As a matter of fact, I can almost assure you that if Phil Simms was asked that question in a general sense, he was most assuredly talking about CONTENDERS.

You see what you fail to understand is that WE DO NOT MATTER. We are essentially eliminated from playoff contention. So when you are talking Chad Henne, you don't combine that with the conversation of audibles and coordinators. Only FANS with wishful thinking do that. No, when a league wide analyst is asked a general question you get contender responses. Here is a sampling of the questions Phil Simms is asked about Chad Henne:

"Is he the guy?"

Chad Henne gets lumped in there with the same question as Ryan Fitzpatrick, Derek Anderson, Josh Freeman, David Garrard, Jason Campbell, and quite possibly Alex Smith. Are you giving those guys anything but run/pass audibles? Better yet, do you think that Phil Simms had ANY of those guys in mind when he answered that question?

You took an answer and projected it upon YOUR circumstance. That is convenient and it's dangerous.

 

The first part is false. The little squiggly lines that you see in books - that's "get open". It's run the underneath and sit in the open zone.

The rest would have revelance if Henne's accuracy has not been proven to be inconsistent versus the coverage. We just left a game versus cover 2 where the passing plays were GOOD calls. What happened? 37.8 happened......

 

If you think the TE is open I'm sorry to hear that. The MLB,'s job is to take a read step for the run, then lateral run in line with the TE into his zone. He effectively has man coverage until the TE gets behind him when it becomes essentially a bracket coverage on the deep middle. Do you enjoy not knowing what you're talking about? Regardless of what the Dolphins call, I'm showing you that a QB cannot read a zone as long as the wrong routes are called. You're still missing the point though with the Combo route comment. Of it's the wrong call at the time, we're still ****ed because we can't change it.

 

How about this: How about we just look at the route patterns versus Cover 2 and we see how the kid executed the offense? You get more when you achieve more.

We just left a press conference where the offensive line was condemned for a protection issue. That was a huddle call.

We just left a press conference where the receivers were condemned for route running. That was a huddle call.

We just left a GAME where the quarterback had a 37.8 quarterback rating because he threw 3 interceptions.

I got an idea. How about we first learned to execute what was called in the huddle. Then maybe we can progress to mimic Tom Brady and Peyton Manning at the line of scrimmage.

 

There are certain routes called get open routes where the receiver gets to run whatever can get him open. IF it's called mind you. I don't see us doing much of those option routes besides maybe Bess. I don't think Hartline is the right personnel for those because he's better with straight line speed and isn't a deceptive route runner.

 

Wait a minute! Is this not why you condemn me?

This conversation reminds me of a paper debate I once had with an offensive coordinator. He was showing his vast attack at EVERYTHING that was open to him on paper. I sort of got tired of the conversation and I finally looked at him and said:

"My guys are playing the game too. They are not stuck in the mud as this X is on your little paper."

 

I see alot of it out of Fasano and Marshall too.

Hartline is the Z. It's why you almost always see him working down field. It's why his average per catch is so high.

 

I still don't think we have the right personnel or calls to do it. I honestly just want them to let him run it and sink or swim. Just to remove the doubt.

 

This is just more excuses for Chad Henne being so horrible all season long. I guess this is going to carry over into the offseason no matter what Henne does the last four games.

It's the OC Henning's fault, it's the lack of playmakers at WR (even though we have Marshall and Bess), it's our O-line (even though we have a great one), it's our RBs (even though Ronnie and Ricky), etc., etc., etc...

No way Henne starts next season, IMO.

 

How about separating the young one from the veterans?

 

Those are similar routes to what we ran when Henne threw his 2nd INT to Bess..... so nice diagram to suit your example. lol

 

Right... humans arent dogs..... as such they shouldn't trained to a bell when they have "human" instincts capable of teaching them when to get rid of it..... and be able to develop those instincts rather than being conditioned away from them.

Taking it to the next level is allowing a QB to develop rather than attempting to turn him into a robot of your liking.

 

the vast majority of QB's don't have the ability to audible into any thing they wish. The number is probably upwards of 70%. Big Ben, Favre, Peyton and Brady are four that come to mind. I would guess Brees and Eli have the ability. After that I'm not sure who else has the freedom to audible into anything they wish. Most QBs like ours have a kill option but thats it

Not sure how this is a damning indictment of Henning but I guess everything is nowadays

 

with henne's poor pocket awareness the three second clock was a damn good idea. He would probably have been on his fifth concussion by now if he didnt have that inner clock

 

you would think that wouldnt you lol. i guess now henne is hamstrung because he isnt treated like peyton manning. if only we had known lol. the guy cant read cover 2 but is obviously qualified to start calling his own plays somehow

 

I'll see your Henne's talents and raise you a

You could say that Penny had a better ground game to help the offense. 2008: 124 YPG at 4.3 ave..... 2010: 106 at 3.8.

I'll match your "Henne's better talent" with Penny having guys who forced defenses to defend much more of the field. What good is "better talent" if you can't properly utilize it b/c of how defenses can play you in a 20 yard box?

You can also say that Marshall's true "talent" hasn't come to fruition here b/c defenses can drape guys all over him and prevent him from making as many big plays as if he had Ginn or Martin opening up coverage..... and it could be argued that the depth of pass catchers were greater with Penny.

Fasano was here.
Bess was here.
Cammy pretty much balances out Hartline, although Cam's more reliable.

That leaves Marshall vs Martin & Ginn combined ..... Marshall's #s in 2008: 1265 yards, 12.2 ave, 6 TDs. Ginn & Martin: 1240 yards, 14 ave, 5 TDs.

It could be argued that the talent was pretty even at the pass catching position...... although the ground game was clearly better..... so I'll have to be Devil's advocate and say that Penny had better all around talent in 08. lol