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Why going 9-7 is important.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, after reading literally thousands of posts about "..Henne this and Henne that.." I think some perspective is in order on what going 9-7 would mean for the Dolphins Franchise and Chad Henne:

    -last 6 yrs, 2 winning seasons

    -11-5 and 9-7

    -In the last 4yrs, 4 losing seasons:

    4-12, 6-10, 1-15, 7-9

    Two Qb's in the winning yrs: Pennington and Gus Frerotte both over 30 veterans

    "If" the Dolphins can manage a winning record this yr, along with Chad Henne, with this team, with as poorly as he has played at times, coupled with a Top 5 defense that has 1 starter over 30 the Dolphins Franchise itself will be on an upwards arch and based on the youth on the Team, one that can be expected to continue as players mature they grow more savvy and mistakes lessen and opportunities are capitialized upon more.

    These last 4 games, playoffs or no, are crucially important to the future of this team it is 25% of the season and not to be casually written off.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe Sparano would have a 24 and 21 record after 3 years, thats coming off 1 and 15 inherited from another regime, and breakin in a rookie QB in the process....tough to fire a coach if your looking at it in just a broad perspective.
     
  3. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    No he'd be 27 and 21 with a team constantly getting stronger in talent each year. If Ireland and company can keep that going that's encouraging, especially with Odrick coming back and apparently the team done with Pat White and Turner bull**** picks.

    I think they're going to go for an upgrade of the running game based on how they usually do it. Mankins, perhaps a swap of Carey for some RT in free agency and a Ryan Williams in the draft. Then they'll add in maybe a prospect or two for the LBing core. Still the best regime by far of the Wannstedt-Saban-Cameron-Sparano group. Sparano just needs an older OC that failed miserably as a HC and knows he's nothing but an offensive coordinator. Hand him the reigns. If Weis were available I would have said him. Gary Kubiak I doubt because of his WCO roots. Has to be someone who runs the Coryell or Ehrhardt. The one guy who did well here who I think could deserve a shot would be Gailey. He took some pretty ****ty offenses in 01 and 02 to some decent performances. I doubt he's available and I admit he's not the most exciting name. Norv Turner could be fired perhaps and return here.
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly Deej, it would also mean a strong finish to the season at 3-1 with BM being out for 2.5 games as well.

    And the Defense making a jump from consistently being in the mid 20's in 08 and 09 into a Top 5 unit.
     
  5. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    First of all, unless we pull off the upset Sunday, it's not happening.

    Secondly, even if we did, it guarantees nothing and doesn;t mean that Henne is the guy for the future.

    Saban went 9-7 his firsts eason. We got picked to go the Super bowl. Needless to say we all remember how that turned out.

    This is the kind of attitude that kept Wanny around 3 years longer than he should've been. "How can you fire a guy who's 10-6?" You can if you're not going anywhere. 9-7 vs. 8-8 in the context of this team, this season is absolutely meaningless.
     
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  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, bump this thread after Sunday's game then.


    There are no guarantees in the NFL for any team, there are trends and 11-5/7-9/9-7 would be an improvement after 6 seasons of mostly poor to mediocre football in Miami.


    Saban also took over a team with an avg age close to 30, the current dolphins teams' avg age is the mid 20's, we have no 32 yr old JT as the center piece of the team which makes the situations completely different.

    Nope the NFL does not work like that, a team builds itself into a SB contender it does not simply roll the ball out one season and say "gosh it sure would be nice to win the SB this yr" improvement happens incrementally.

    Though that does require big picture thinking, and a realization that over the last 6 seasons we simply have not been that good of a team, in context we have not had a Qb throw 20 Td's since 2001, have some perspective especially when we have played the #2 toughest schedule in the NFL (per football outsiders DVOA) a winning season with a second yr Qb in that environment is an accomplishment not a detraction.
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I got news for you Pad, 9-7 is mediocre, The Jets and NE are playing the same schedule we are and yet they are not crowing about going 9-7.

    NE also has a young team.

    9-7 is meaningless. Just like 8-8 is meaningless. You really think wins over Buffallo and Detroit to salavage 8-8 is some kind of grand accomplishment?

    If we do finish 9-7, then what is the plan for next year? The schedule will be equally as tough with the NFC East on the menu. Should we then simply hope for 10-6? Enough is enough from this franchise.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No it is not, anything besides winning the SB is meaningless, never mind you completely ignore the context of why it would matter, in typical dolphins fan fashion wishing is supposed to accomplish something..and it never does.

    Teams are built like houses, it takes time to construct them you just want to make sure progress is being made in putting the foundation on, then framing the thing then putting the roof on..and no amount of wishing or disregarding can change that fact of life.
     
  9. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yet somehow other franchises get their houses built much faster. Other franchises are aware of what the proper foundation for a house is (a QB).

    I fail to see this great progress you're talking about. Yeah, the defense is better. But we're still no closer to elite status.

    I don't see the major difference between 8-8 and 9-7. Particularly when I have very little faith that this regime even has a plan moving forward, yet alone whether it is a good plan.
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Who? Which teams?
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What record is meaningful then? Is it record or playoffs? Superbowl appearances or wins?
     
  12. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Jets, Baltimore, atlanta are the 3 that most come to mind.
     
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  13. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    And this house is built with a shaky foundation. As long as Henne plays as he has this year, Miami will continue to lose when it counts the most.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're a consistent playoff team, I'd say you're doing something right even if you don't win a SB. I think andy Reid is tremendous and his record or skill as a coach isn't tainted by failing to win a SB yet.

    The point remains is that making a line of demarcation as to whether a coach/regime is doing a good job or a bad job 9-7 is simply silly. What if we lose to the Jets by a field goal at the buzzer and finish 8-8? does Padre then want to fire the coach?
     
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  15. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Couldn't have been said better. I look at other franchises with such jealousy. Its not that long ago that SF, Miami, NO and Atlanta were the bottom feeders of the NFL. The two teams that identified their weakness (QB) and went out and got one, have either won a SB or on their way to being an elite team, the other two, Miami & SF failed to find a QB and are both mediocre at best.

    In the last 10 years only one team has won a SB with less than an elite QB, and that was 10 years ago in Baltimore. Unless our regime recognizes this and fixes our situation via trade or draft this off-season, their chances of drafting that elite QB here will be as gone as they will not be around for a 2012 draft.
     
  16. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    I take that back, I guess Tampa won with less than a stellar guy. I can't even remember his name. But still two times in 10 years leads you to believe its not a fluke, but a trend that if you get an elite QB your chances of winning a SB are enhanced.
     
  17. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Winning in the playoffs, and of course winning a SB, but winning multiple games in the playoffs. We haven't won a playoff game since Jan 2000. That is really sad.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    07 Jets were 4-12 with two of their wins coming against our 1-15 team.

    They have finished 4-12/9-7/9-7 is that clearly more progress than the Dolphins have made?

    Ravens have been good to in the AFC Title game in the last decade.

    Falcons, that is true, they are good especially at home.

    However this is the first yr they have had a clearly better season than the dolphins, in 09 they were a .500 team, we were 7-9.
     
  19. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Jets bought a team that can ONLY exist in an uncapped year. They're entering their hard part of the schedule and I think they'll be exposed. They're not as solid as most people think.

    Baltimore and Atlanta have been rebuilding for quite some time and have wallowed in mediocrity for much of it. They've been slowly built as the OP pointed out. It was originally stated that we had no talent on this team and that we were a 5 year project. Bringing in a rookie HC to a 1-15 team in out division and expecting him to turn it around overnight is unfair.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think what Schmo is forgetting or missing here is the fact that our talent acquisition was so bad for Wanny's tenure, Saban's tenure, Cam-Cam's tenure that it is going to take more than 2 or 3 yrs to rebuild this franchise. I'm sure he'll talk about how the jests have suddenly become contenders, but they have the same personnel acquisition team as when Mangini and Herm was there. He may talk about St. Louis, but again 4 drafts of top 5 picks have to net you something. How about Detroit, who finally looks to be coming out of the fog, but the same thing...all those years of high draft picks. Atlanta...same situation. We seem to get just good enough to put us in the later part of the first round...(Brown and Long, notwithstanding). There is just too little attention paid to how bad this teams' talent acquisition has been over the years, including some gaffs with the current regime.
     
  21. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Of course they are, but i think you're fairly liberal with the term elite QB. There are 3-4 in the league ATM IMO.

    Manning
    Brees
    Brady
    Rivers?

    Those are the guys who can do it on their own. Thy just need a decent team to back them up. There are other good QBs like Roth and Eli, but I wouldn't consider them elite. They're good players who need a strong cast around them to reach the SB. Those two are the upper echelon of that group too.

    I get the QB argument and was livid when we ignored it for so long, but I don't think this regime is vilifying that mistake. Henne had put up a few stinkers, but overall his
    play has been adequate. I'm not counting him out to turn the corner like some are, but I think he has the potential to be in the ranks of solid QB play.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  22. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All the talk about where this team was is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not the arbitrary number of 9-7 has any meaning.

    If you are of the mind that this regime is doing a good job and deserves more time then whether we win 7, 8 or 9 gaes should be irrelevant. If you don't think this regime is doing a particularly good job, there is nothing magical about 9-7 which would make you change your mind.

    This is espescially true for this team as the one game difference could be the fluke Pittsburgh game.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course. I think 8 and 8 is more like it, and if there is 1 more home loss, than it wont matter..
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, that is one of the points, the talent has improved and hugely, the other is to have some perspective on what a winning record means in Miami with this team and situation.
     
  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Your football IQ sucks if you cant remember Brad Johnson, Super Bowl QB :tongue2:. Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Eli Manning, Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, all have been to the dance. This myth that you need an elite QB is just that, a myth. It's more like, if you make it to the Super Bowl, then the media anoints you as an elite QB.
     
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  26. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Yep. As far as I'm concerned, these next four games are 2011 preseason games. Winning is important, but not as important as staying healthy and improving as a team.
     
  27. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Doesn't Rodgers need to be on that list?
     
  28. CirclingWagons

    CirclingWagons Banned

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    His #'s are, but he's yet to win a playoff game. That's why Romo has never been considered elite. I do think Rodgers will cement elite status this postseason, though.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think the packers v patriots game sets up wonderfully well, Brady trying to break Favre's record for consecutive home wins, packers roll into town with enough offense and defense to win it.
     
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  30. CirclingWagons

    CirclingWagons Banned

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    Agreed. Packers have the speed and talent on defense to disrupt the Pats. I only wish that GB had more balance on offense though...their offense is amazing but they have a tendency to become predictable due to the lack of a running game.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think that is a positive though, unless the weather is just terrible, even then the Pack is used to running people in crappy weather themselves.
     
  32. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    I don't spend 24/7 worrying about QB that play for other teams. So I didn't remember his name. And you are crazy if you think just because a QB gets to the SB they are elite. I could care less what the mediots say about QB's and if they think they are elite. Most of the SB's, especially this decade have been won by QB's that are elite. That is fact. Your chances increase immeasurably if you have an elite QB. Most elite QB's are taken in the 1st round. This is not rocket science to figure out dude. We already look to have bombed out with Henne. I just can't ever see him taking us to a playoff win, much less a SB win. He hasn't beaten an elite team yet this year, and I don't think he will today in NJ or in a few weeks in Foxboro. It looks like we are stuck with him at least another 2 years. Its most depressing.
     

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