Well, I'll keep an eye out on Hunt simply because I feel he would be a nice piece to have in the OLB/ST mix in camp, and totally agree that Hunt is NOT Wake Jr. he is more of a role player type in the NFL. Also think he is a much better player than Ricky Foley, as in hands down better, and Foley was in a couple of camps this Fall. Hunt is a bit to thin at the moment, you can tell Wake spent hours in the weight room every day, Hunt looks like he spent his allotted time and no more, more than anything I think a top flight strength and conditioning program would help him as he looks 6'1 235ish.. Blasphemy I know, but I watched Wake and Hunt..a absolute ton and Hunt is maybe quicker than Wake was coming down from Canada not more explosive, not more physical, but Hunt is more like a Jack Rabbit to Wake's pouncing Tiger, Hunt is a smaller package and just kind of out quicks Blockers
The only thing different about Carson Palmer this yr is the Bengals are asking him to do too much in the passing game. The interesting thing is, I cannot recall a 30yr old NFL Qb retiring in the modern NFL due to arm injuries, no previously successful ones anyway. Well, the addition of TO has moved Cinci away from what made them successful in 2009, power running, I would bet if you looked back at his successful games in 09, his number of throws are down compared to the losses, and this yr he is forcing the ball into..TO..in the redzone. If the Bengals put him on the market their first problem is not compensation for him, it is his massive contract, 11.3 million for 2011, if they draft a rook high as in Top 5, would anyone in the NFL offer a premium for Palmer? I wouldn't think so, but I do think if you treated him as you do Pennington, under 30 passes per game, he would still be a very successful Qb in the NFL, but I also think he has a bit of the Bengals stink on him right now.
Taller guys don't use their legs when they throw the football the same way shorter guys do. If you just stand a 6'6" guy up next to a 6'3" guy and watch them throw, the shorter guy is always going to look like he's using his legs in his throw better, IMO. Newton uses his legs in his throws. He just does things at a different speed. He's got the Benny Alvarez whipcrack to him. He looks totally relaxed and at a ready position, until he's not and then before you know it the ball is in the hands of his target. In fact I have not seen a QB do that, go from a relaxed ready, to having the ball 20 yards through the air and into the hands of a receiver, in that short amount of time...since Dan Marino.
Well considering what Tennessee did with a guy with far more of an ego and less accuracy it's possible we run something very similar to what was run in Tennessee. Listen they draft Newton I'm on board. At worst it shows a little bit of balls. It shows you're willing to take a chance on something big. Just get him a guy who can develop him well enough. Michael Vick for one thing had nowhere near the talent in terms of passing the ball that Newton has shown. His passing stats were terrible, but he's progressed. I'm almost convinced half the battle is the coaching. You must have a good coach to take you there. As much as Young dislikes what Fisher has tried to do, Mike Heimerdinger if available would be a good hire. Hey at least you're going big with this one and at worst what do we miss out on. A RB?
believe me, iam intrigued as hell about the player because this is the skillset I want moving forward... Let me rephrase my concern....where does intelligence rate for you in your QB's, lets say your in love with the skillset but dont believe he's smart, do you still pull the trigger?...things that we will not be privy too will affect this decision, for example, when they test him on the x's and o's predraft iam sure they will figure out if he has enough football intelligence, we wont know that... I mean this is an adult that has been raised supposedly from the get, with a plan, yet he sounds like his english homework has been done for him since kindergarten..go get your hair did TP know what iam sayin? I know this is a touchy subject to talk about, however imo, its his biggest weakness..
If we're "hypothetically" saying that "we're 100% committed to grabbing a QB in the 1st round", then instead of throwing some chips on the table to draft Cam or get into position to draft him, then I'd rather suck it up and go ALL IN and do whatever it takes to grab Luck. But that's just me.
If he's as good as you think he is then perhaps you think about it. He really doesn't have issues, even less than Bradford. Question is can you make up for what you lose with those two additional first round picks? NY did, when it traded two first rounders. Could we make up dare I say it....Three? That's what it would probably take to get him based on where we stand right now. It's tough to make up two first round picks, it really is. On the other hand the team is young. Perhaps you can get away with it. Food for thought... Average fan will say **** no. Three first round picks or two plus extra for one guy? I would trade that for Sam Bradford though now that I know he's a success. I think for a while the position became underrated if that's possible. With even a solid QB behind C for the Jets they'd be wrecking the league regardless of all that talent. We'll see though. It would take some gargantuan balls to make a move of the level I'm talking about. Elway trade come to mind?
This is my initial gut reaction to him, too..... and I place a great deal of emphasis on intelligence or at least football intelligence combined with serious preparation. I don't think they have to be the smartest cookie, but it does concern me if they seem to be somewhat lacking. I have a serious question mark about how Cam will play in the NFL when the talent level on the field is pretty much evened out to where he won't have as many privileges as he was afforded while playing in Auburn's offense. He was a man among boys in college, but he'll be a man among men at the next level. His physical attributes will be less impacting, and he'll need to counter that in some other aspect of his game to remain dominant IMO again. He won't be able to run for a bazillion yards, and I'm not sure how he's going to perform when facing more complex NFL secondaries. I could very well see him getting knocked around his rookie year as well as make a ton or poor decisions with the ball when he's forced to act quicker. We see immense college QB talent go bust in the NFL b/c they didn't have the brains to succeed or lacked the desire of a Drew Brees. Right now, I potentially see him becoming more of a Jamarcus Russell than I do a Josh Freeman. I could be completely wrong, but these are my initial thoughts.
I know it doesn't mean much, but Freeman was my favorite "top" QB from 2009 and I like Cam more. Having watched pretty much every Auburn game too, I get the man among men concern, but he really doesn't seem to too dumb to me. He reads coverages pretty well from what I've seen, throws a catchable ball all over the field, and doesn't really make too many more mistakes (if even that) than any other top QBs I've really watched over the years. I mean he doesn't appear to be the passer Andrew Luck is right now, but that's hardly an indictment to me.
I would do it for a guy like Luck in a heartbeat (and I would've done it for Bradford)..... but no way in heck would I have for Sanchez or Stafford b/c I never saw them as serious franchise QBs. IMO Luck is a guy you can build an entire offense around, find him some weapons, and watch it click for a dozen years (and when a piece goes missing, you merely plug in its replacement). Our team is young enough that we would continue to improve even if we were void of a few firsts, which the Jets don't have bragging rights to. However, I'm still for getting Henne a new OC, a few weapons, a solid line, and youth & explosiveness at running back. If we're hypothetically giving up 2 firsts, a 3rd, and a 4th to get Luck, then I have to first imagine what our offense could look like if we spent those picks on offensive weapons instead. Lets say we add Mankins in FA to give us a solid line and Tony Scheffler at TE....... then use our 1st on WR- Justin Blackmon, the 3rd on the top COP back available (even move up to snag Kendall Hunter). 4th on WR- Greg Little. Then use next year's 1st on RB- Trent Richardson (for example). I'd have a hard time believing this offense couldn't inflict some serious damage on teams with Henne at QB (who we have for a fraction of Luck's cost). Marshall------ Blackmon------ Bess (w/ Hartline & Little rotating in at any of the 3 positions as well as giving us a crazy 4 & even 5 WR set). Fasano/Scheffler at TE. Richardson/Hunter at RB. I'm not sure how a defense could effectively be prepared to stop that. The formation & playcalling potential would be endless would it not? Little is a beast and can be lined up everywhere including the backfield. Scheffler could be moved all around the field. We could bring out Marshall & Little with a 2 TE set and have defenses not knowing whether we're going to pound it on them or gash them through the air b/c they're both monsters in blocking AND catching. Thinking about Marshall and Little on the field together makes my hair stand up (hell, Marshall, Blackmon, and Little on the field together makes me tingle all over). If we go another year w/o adding any playmakers via the draft, I'll be highly bummed and disappointed in this organization. I realize not everyone shares my sentiments regarding this. lol.
You're right. It doesn't mean much. lol. j/k. I don't think he's dumb per say..... but I haven't seen his intelligence tested as much as I'd like to see in order to risk such a high pick on him. I see him doing a lot of special things b/c of the whole "men among boys" thing, and I see him doing a lot of things b/c of how defenses are forced to play Auburn's offense. Like Clemson for instance. We had Auburn beat.... but Clemson was forced to respect Cam's feet and Auburn's ground game so much that it allowed Cam to make more throws than I believe he "would've" otherwise not made. He reminds me of GaTech's success in passing---- that so much respect has to be given to Tech's ground game that defenses give up some crazy big pass plays as a result. I'm not greatly downplaying him b/c he's clearly done some amazing things; I only wonder how he would've done if he didn't have his feet and a great ground game to really help open things up for him b/c he won't have those same luxuries in the NFL IMO. He's a very difficult person to project IMO, and that scares me when considering a high draft pick is involved. But this is what I love about the draft b/c I could be completely wrong. I liked Freeman's combination of intelligence and maturity. He seems like he was born to be a leader. Cam, I'm still not certain about. He's a great leader at the college level among 18-22 year old kids, but can he be a leader among grown men when intelligence etc plays more of a factor than how well he plays on the field? These are just some of my concerns.
IMO Luck is one of those special, rare cerebral type QBs who will be able to methodically dissect defenses through a ridiculous amount of dedication and preparation..... and do so with great precision and proficiency. I saw Bradford being that type too..... as well as Ryan to a degree.
Not to be forgotten is that if this really is the last round up for this coaching staff and GM, they may decide to trade a future first for an early second rounder this year, so include that in any calculations. That could be exactly what the team would need to acquire a Kyle Rudolph. A first three round haul including a trade down could foreseeably bring in Mikel LeShoure, Kyle Rudolph, Noel Devine, and perhaps an OLB. That doesn't mention an expected free agent attack by Ireland on Mankins and maybe even a swap of Carey for a RT. Even then I expect them to still go after one more big time guy as they did with Dansby. The other option would be they go the free agency route for a RB like DeAngelo and then use the late first rounder they traded down for on Carimi or another T. Immediate dividend moves across the board is what I see happening, especially if they don't finish 10-6.
I take back what I said earlier in the year about Rudolph seeming too heavy-footed this year now that I know his hammy has been bothering him since the summer. I'd use next year's 1st to get him in the 2nd. Imagine if we could do that AND trade back to pick up another 2nd..... and end up with: Justin Blackmon..... Kyle Rudolph....... Kendall Hunter...... Mark Herzlich...... Greg Little. I'd have to carry around a pillow in front of me for days!!
I like Mikel "Row Your Boat" LeShoure, but he's got a little of that same hesitance in the backfield in short yardage situations as Ronnie Brown. I don't think he'd be a good goal line back. He's built wonderfully, real big and physical with genuine speed, ability to make people miss in the open at full speeds. His cutback game seems non-existent. If Vick Ballard of Mississippi State comes out, I would be all over him. That's a back you can rely upon to smell the end zone and get in there with authority. Keeps those legs churning and can twist out of contact, not a hesitant player, the effort is huge. Plus he's a feisty blocker, had to be because of the option system where he often had to block for other ball carriers. And I do love Kendall Hunter but part of me wonders if he'll be in his ideal situation in our blocking scheme rather than the zone-stretch scheme he's used to. The cutback is a huge part of his game, he's always looking for it. But it's not a huge part of Miami's current offense. Ryan Williams I adore on the field, I think he's got most everything you want, speed, ability to powerfully break tackles, you could wish he was 230 lbs but he looks to me to be the type that will continue getting bigger and stronger in the NFL for a while.
That's a good point to consider with Hunter. I wouldn't mind having Knile Davis if he came out early. Jamie Harper's game is really coming on.
Agree on LeShoure. Talked about him a while back. He's got some talent IMO. Really like Ballard as well.
I've got a buddy who plays for UC, so I try and catch their games when I can. I think Pead plays bigger than his size, but like CK said about Hunter, I think Pead might struggle in our current schemes. I'm also not sure he's got the speed to be an effective change of pace back, but I think he'd be an upgrade to Patrick Cobbs in terms of offense only. That said, he's a junior and haven't heard a word about him coming out at all...I'll let you know if I do hear something.
Assuming we re-sign Ronnie I would not use a 1st round draft pick on a running back this year. With that in mind there are several late round guys I like: Vai Taua from Nevada Chad Spann from Northern Illinois Jay Finley from Baylor Allen Bradford from USC Brandon Saine from Ohio State In that order. The only running back I would consider with our 3rd round pick is Noel Devine but he will probably be off the board. The other RB I really like is Roy Helu. Great size/speed combo and an excellent character guy.
I just can't really be on board with Ronnie for any significant $ or even time. He has just been so poor and slow this year to me.
People will disagree, but I dont know why we're not giving some snaps to Lex. I doubt very much that plays any more poorly. IMO we need a change of face in there............asap.
Other than maybe Cobbs as the #3 or Hilliard as the #4 (and that's only because of Sts really), I honestly wouldn't mind one bit a complete overhaul at the position.
With Mcdaniels out in Denver, I want the Fin's to trade for Tebow before they pick up Newton. Tebow is a young smart guy, Newton based on him allowing his father to get a pay for play, cheating at UF, Stealing at UF and playing in JuCo last year equal huge character flaws in my opinion. Go with Tebow, atleast you know the worst he'll get caught doing is a choir boy on a mission.
If you want to overhaul the whole thing, which I do as well, than Stanley Havili has got to be on the board..
IMO Newton has a dramatically higher upside than Tebow. I don't think it is close to be honest. I doubt we have the chance to take Newton , barring a trade scenario , as I have mentioned, won't be surprised to see Buffalo pull the trigger on him.
As much as I hate to say it because I've been such a big fan of his, I agree. He has looked pretty bad this year. Very indecisive and isnt hitting the hole hard at all. I just dont see anything from Lex outside of ST. For a guy his size he certainly doest run with a whole lot of power. I would honestly like to see them use Cobbs more. They've been using him a bit more lately in the passing game which I think is his strength, but I'd like to see him get some carries as well. I think he's a very solid player and isn't being used enough.
I like what they're doing with Lex Hilliard having him block more often. Against Oakland and Cleveland, they had him playing significant time at Fullback. He's got better speed and explosion than Lousaka Polite and if he could learn to block like him and run short yardage like him, he could be an in-house replacement for a guy I've not been happy with this year. And I agree they should get Cobbs more involved. Honestly if we entered a game completly flipping the position on its head with Pat Cobbs and Lex Hilliard taking all the work while Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams sit the bench, I think we'd all get a better idea of how inconsistent the two have been.
My problem isn't with Newton's talents---it's his character. Tebow has outstanding character and a long line of supporters. Newtons are few and far between. Newton to me is another Jamarcus Russell. He's got his money, and he's not going to change a thing. Tebow to me is another Peyton Manning in terms of Character and Steve Young in terms of skillset. A Politically correct leader who can hurt you with his legs for sure and eventually if he's developed properly with his arm. He's already got the mind of a leader and champion. (looks at his speeches at UF) With Pennington sticking around hopefully and them bringing in Tebow. I have high hopes. I think Tebow would be better then Henne right now.
Cam Newton is a spectacular talent. I believe Cam Newton could step on an NFL field tomorrow and be passable playing a full game. Not sure about Tebow.
But playing in the NFL longterm and not being suspended or not into it are two different things. They thought the same about Russell, and he had less off field problems in college then Cam. My thing about him isn't his talent, it's his character. I don't want pricks playing on my hometown team.
Cam had one problem. The laptop thing. and while I agree it was a stupid thing to do, he wasn't exaclty sneaking into dorm rooms like a cat burglar robbing people. The cheating thing is completely unproven and I could care less what his father may or may not have done in terms of asking for money. You're right that we don't know what will happen once he gets a big check. But you don't know that of any player. And if you don't want pricks playing for the 'Fins, you're out of luck. Let me introduce you to brandon Marshall, tony McDaniel, Phillip Merling, etc. And those guys have done much worse than Cam.
So far , his mis steps have been minor. If that is all there is , I am not concerned. As I mentioned previously , I have an aquaintance who played for Auburn and his best friend is , let's say the most famous Auburn alum , they go to several games a year . The word is Newton's teamates really like him and he is level headed , and football matters to him , unlike Russell. Huge differance , no weight joke intended.
You know, I wouldn't put it past Jeff Ireland to use a first round pick on Cam Newton. It would pretty much ensure that Jeff wouldn't be a GM for very much longer. Cam Newton has so far to go to be an NFL quarterback that it isn't even funny. The guy is a great athlete, but the he does not have to make complex reads in the system that Gus Malzahn employs. The majority of his passes thrown in this offense are to a predetermined target in which the design of the play gets open. In the end though, the guy is clearly a run first quarterback, and you would think that by now the fact that these guys do not have success as quarterbacks in the NFL should be driven home. Unfortunately, due to the social conscience by the media on the part of wanting to see a run first black quarterback succeed in the NFL, you have fans that are brainwashed by the media into thinking that this guy has even a remote chance of success without being completely broken down and rebuilt.
Sounds like a perfect fit in Dan Henning’s offense. This is false. This would be true if you limited your commentary to the media and not the fans or Newton. Yes, the sports media wants to see more black quarterbacks and wants to see an elite black quarterback win the Super Bowl. No, that doesn’t mean the fans have been brainwashed into thinking that Newton is a good prospect. Opinion on Newton is actually pretty evenly split.
Didn't I see you once working for ESPN for like five minutes... before being fired in disgrace and going back to your syndicated radio show? I don't like the guy as an NFL quarterback either, but get real.
That's fine if you want to duck your head into the sand and ignore the reality of the situation at hand. Look at the two QBs that got more love from the media in the past 10 years than any other quarterback prospect that came out of college - Michael Vick and Vince Young, both horrific NFL QBs until things finally clicked for Vick after 10 years. These two guys were the best things ever coming out of college though. They were going to change the way the game was played. The best black quarterbacks of the past ten years? David Garrard, Byron Leftwich, and Josh Freeman. All three are pure drop back guys. You don't hear a peep from the media about them though because they don't play like black quarterbacks. The media wants the black quarterback that runs around like a chicken with its head cut off to succeed in the NFL, and it is pretty obvious that fans have been brainwashed into that desire by the media because they are obviously ignoring the history of this game.
Jesus Christ man, are you really going there?!??!?! What about McNabb? Mike Vick? Steve McNair? Daunte Culpepper? Those guys were/are great. McNair won a co-MVP, but I guess you forgot that cause he split the MVP with a white guy. You're effing clueless man. Black QBs are just as varied as players as the white guys. A lot of em bust out (Akili Smith and J. Russell) and a lot of white guys do too (David Carr and Alex Smith). And then you have the nerve to make the accusation that he can't make reads? Blacks are just as smart as whites. Sorry about that dude.
