It's finals week for me so obviously I was bored and had to find something else to do, rather than study. I've read the forum before and noticed the split factions as far as Henne goes, so I decided to compare a large amount of the starting Quarterbacks in the NFL today first two years as a full time starter to our dear ol' Chad Henne. First group is a group that obviously out performed what Henne has done thus far: Tom Brady – Super Bowl, enough said? Oh and 46 tds to 26 ints, still looks like a girl Peyton Manning – Almost 8,000 yards and 52 tds Phillip Rivers – 43 tds to 24 ints pretty solid Aaron Rodgers – Over 8000 yards and 58 tds to 20 ints Ben Roethlisberger – 34 tds to 20 ints Tony Romo – 55 tds to 32 ints, I hate qb ratings but over 95 both years has to be pretty good Matt Schaub – 24 td to 19 ints, completion percentage around 66 both years in only 22 games Jay Cutler – 8,000 yards, 45 tds to 32 ints Matt Ryan – 6,000 plus yards, 38 tds to 25 ints Joe Flacco – 6,500 yards, 35 tds to 24 ints Josh Freeman – This year 17 td to 6 ints, total 5,000 yards in 22 starts Sam Bradford – Special rookie year, 17 tds to 12 ints and 2,884 yards Donovan McNabb – 6500 yards, 46 tds to 25 ints David Garrard – 28 tds to 12 ints in 22 games Carson Palmer – 6500 yards, 50 tds to 30 ints Jake Delhomme – 7,000 yards, 58 tds to 31 ints Matt Hasselbeck – 22 starts 5,000 yards, 22 tds to 18 ints, 2nd year in 10 starts had over 3000 yards and 15 tds to 10 ints Michael Vick – running ability makes comparison impossible This group is Quarterbacks with similar 1st 2 years as a full time starter Derek Anderson*- 1st year as a starter was outrageous but then he forgot how to play Mark Sanchez*- Same situation as Henne, who knows? Ryan Fitzpatrick*- 1st 20 starts not great, 3rd year product of Gailey? Drew Brees*- Awesome 3rd year, but very similar to Henne 1st 2 years Eli Manning*- Didn’t become a franchise quarterback until that superbowl, still throws too many ints Kyle Orton*- Similar 1st 2 years as a starter, stats now product of McDaniels Matt Cassel*- 1st year was product of McDaniel, 2nd year was back to reality, but looks pretty good this year. Jason Campbell*- Very similar to Henne, but mobility helps, 3rd year was stronger. Jon Kitna*- 1st 2 years as a full time starter are scary similar to Henne. Shaun Hill*- No real opportunity as a full time starter, numbers are fairly impressive through 24 starts Byron Leftwich*- Actually had a better 2nd season than Henne thus far, Frightening. (I know he's not a starter, but I just wanted to check it out). Just thought I would put that out there, there's definitely proof on both sides, a change of Offensive Coordinator seems to have helped alot of guys, but it seems like most of the elite guys are elite early in their careers. And yes this was all so that I wouldn't be studying.
Now that you mention it....... I WAS having a difficult time sleeping, so thank you for that. Law I'm guessing.....? You seem astute and skewing information.
Sex & alcohol? the ladies need booze to make a sexy time huh?....... I think I'm going with: you like the biggins but your pride doesn't? Am I right? I'm right aren't I!!
When you cherry pick stats you'll never come to a true conclusion. With how you "compared" these QB's I could use your method and make Manning look like the worst QB to ever play an Henne the greatest.
He's turrrrrible...there, I saved you hours of future research. Don't drink the Koolaid cause he won this past week, once again his team won in spite of him.
hes not playing well... but when he does is when we spread things out and give him multiple options to find the mismatch... you'd think our OC would then decide to play to his strengths... but of course not, instead we'll play to his weakness of play action, and throwing into double teams by running 2 man routes... my only problem with deciding on the future of Henne is how horrible Henning is... maybe both need to go, or maybe Henne can succeed with someone who will not try to force his style/gameplans when it doesn't fit... Hennings only success with this team was wildcat based, once the wildcat stopped being effective so did he... just look at Pennington's numbers when the wildcat wasn't working, they're horrible... i cant trust the judgement of Henne right now, though it doesn't look good... bring in a young guy if you can get one worth drafting, and bring in a new OC and let them compete, we'll find out if Henne has anything or not...
I actually would really like to see your magical stats that do this please. Okay I get it this isn't a very thorough statistical analysis, but you're really just being devils advocate because I know you don't think that Henne has played at the level that Peyton Manning did. Essentially I've seen people pull stats out of the air and say we are making our decision too quickly on him or that he's the worst QB ever blah blah blah. So I looked at pretty much every quarterback that starts now and has played long enough or isn't from a different time period. I think what you can conclude from this is that, Fitzpatrick, Cassel, and Orton, all were at similar points after their second year and a change in coordinator actually has made them serviceable despite the fact that none of them have half the arm that Henne has. Also you can conclude that if we're waiting for Henne to turn into a top 5 QB it probably isn't going to happen.
What a stupid comment. How did the team win in spite of him? He didn't complete a lot of passes, but he didn't throw any picks, threw for a TD, and knew when to tuck it and run. All in windy, rainy conditions. [mod] Not Appropriate. [/mod]
I agree that a change in coordinator will be the biggest factor in making Henne better. However, a close second is experience. Now, I am in no way saying that Henne will ever be close to Manning, (I had to throw that in there for the idiots that will jump on this and try to claim that I am comparing the two) but let's look at each's first 25 games. Manning- 41TD's, 38 INT's, 4.3 TD%, 3.8 INT%, 57% comp rate, 79 QBR Henne- 25TD's, 28INT's, 3.0 TD%, 3.4 INT%, 61% comp rate, 76 QBR So, if you look at all of these stats you would see that Manning, in his 1st 25 games, threw 1 more TD per 100 passes and about the same number of picks (slightly higher). Henne had the better comp% though.
Marine you and I are definitely on the same side as far as this goes, but I mean can you just admit that there are no stats that will do this? Even with a careful selection all that happened is you made them look similar. My biggest question would be what catastrophic event must occur for someone to become a Buffalo fan while living in Miami?
I was trying to save you from yourself, brah...just don't say I never gave you a chance. Here goes... The defense set up both short-field scores early in the first. Did the Miami offense even move the ball past the 50 the rest of the game? Maybe so, but it was rare. In fact, Miami's offense did not record ONE FIRST DOWN THE ENTIRE SECOND HALF, AND ONLY ONE SINCE THE FIRST QUARTER. The Dolphin defense was on the field virtually the entire game for 3 quarters, and held strong every time. This, despite an offense that couldn't give them any rest. The Miami defense forced 2 turnovers and 6 sacks. No ****, he was 5-18 for 55 yards with a QB rating of 58.5. Strong work but you conveniently left out that he fumbled twice, producing 66.6% of Miami's turnovers. Congrats!, Henne can now throw a 5-yard slant! Are you seriously promoting this accomplishment? 4 carries for 7 yards...quite impressive. He was also sacked 5 times (maybe he should have ran a little more, eh?) Didn't a QB on the very same day throw for 360+ yards and 2tds in a snowstorm with 25mph gusting winds? hmmm...maybe i'm just imagining that...
Oh man. Being a Bills fan has really messed you up. You stated that the Dolphins won in spite of HENNE. Do you understand what "in spite of" means? Do you understand what you write or do you just make stuff up as you go along? All you've shown (and it was obvious to everyone) is that he didn't do much to break the game open. However, he didn't make any stupid throws or do anything else that caused the the rest of the team to dig themselves out of a hole. You tried to use the two fumbles, one where he was blind sided because our RT whiffed on his block and the other where only the coaches, Henne, and (I believe it was ) Ricky know who's fault it was. Was it a PA pass attempt and Ricky hit the ball? Was it a bad hand-off because Henne was short on his reach or was it because Ricky was long on his path? And now you bring up Brady? Did you watch the Pats game? I'm sure you watched something other than the Bills play. HAHAHAHAH! Did you happen to see the pats running game? What about their defense scoring TD's? What about their WR's getting 20 yards of seperation from the DB's? I'm not sure what the pats have to do with this topic. (Other than you trying to change the subject because you can't defend an indefensible position) Now if you wanted to say that Brady or E. Manning or Flacco...etc etc etc, played better than Henne I wouldn't have said a word. [mod] Personal attacks are not allowed. [/mod]
I can cherry pick stats, as the OP did, and do what I said. I didn't "carefully" select any stats. I used ALL meaningful stats from their first two years. I didn't "make" their first two years look similar, thery were similar.
You're very worked up right now. Calm down, scrah...arguments are just like anything else in life, you win some, you lose some. Better luck next time
I was just reading a thread about our D and how great it's playing Soliai has become a beast a guy that couldnt win the starting job Starks starts the season at nose. Don't you find it funny that a new coach comes in and everything changes for Soliai, he went from playing like crap to dominating. The coaching staff prior to Nolan couldn't see it, I wonder what a good OC might do for Henne never mind a good QB coach.
Great point! People who think the Patriots would be as dominate as they have been over the past 10 years without Belichick are fooling themselves. BB has proven that he can pretty much win with anyone. New QB? 11 wins. Revamped defense? No problem. No Moss, the staple of the passing game for years? Bring it on!
Says someone who clearly didn't read any of the previous pages. I systematically ripped apart his Henne defense. I hate to break it to you, but if you defend Henne for THAT performance then you just don't have any credibility. This is why you can't be taken seriously. You continually discredit arguably the best QB of our generation
You just answered your own question in the very next sentence. And "proving" that the Dolphins didn't win in spite of him...lmao, you've backpedaled. Please post Chad Henne's full game #'s here. Seriously, I think it's important that you post them yourself and realize just how heinous they are.
I've officially seen it all now, tbh...a Dolphin fan making excuses for a Ryan Leaf-esque performance. This thread should be an instant classic.
...and the stats prove I'm right. Chad Henne played worse than vintage Ryan Leaf and the Dolphins still won. The offense had 6 first downs all game, NONE in the 2nd half, yet the defense held on with no thanks to the offense. Chad Henne had 2 turnovers as well. What is so hard for you to understand?
Dude, did you even watch the game? Henne didn't play great, but he played 1000 times better than Sanchez. If Sean Smith knew how to catch, he'd have set an NFL record for INTs in one game with like 12 of them. Henne only threw one pass that even came close to being an INT, to Jason Taylor. He didn't lose the game for us, and as it turned out, that's all we needed from him b/c the defense was playing out of their minds and our punter should have his cleats sent to Canton. But I digress. Our ENTIRE OFFENSE was over matched yesterday, the OL, the RB, the WRs, all of them, the whole unit was dominated, it wasn't poor play by the QB. There were no big holes to run through, or wide open receivers in the secondary. Henne looked bad against zone looks as usual, Henne looked bad when plays broke down as usual, Henne played about the same as he has all year, just with different circumstances around him leading to different results. Comparing him to Ryan Leaf is absurd, I hope you're trolling and not trying to make a serious arguement.
see the problem I have is comparing Henne to Sanchez. Why. Sanchez is not on this team. If Tom Brady played slightly better than Ray Lucas would anyone Defend Tom saying he played better than Lucas? Henne sucked. He's been sucking. he's played alright in stretches and bad in stretches. You can't have that. I'd rather have purty good consistently, then purty damn good inconsistently.
I definitely think that it couldn't hurt. I wonder if like Paul Soliai, Henne has some work ethic problems that need to be dealt with? On a side note should we start cheering for a Chargers implosion, Norv Turner would not be a bad edition as an offensive coordinator. Any other suggestions?
How can you look at his #'s and not come to that conclusion? He led the offense to 6 first downs (one from a penalty), and no movement for 3 quarters. Is it too much to ask for your QB to make a play in 3 quarters? Are your standards THAT low, that such a performance is acceptable? Giving Henne ANY credit for this victory is a slap in the face to a defense that picked up his mess all day.
He didn't lose the game for us. but he sure gave the Jets every opportunity to do so. As you say Sanchez played worse. If Sanchez played decently or even just half as bad, we lose the game. We won by 4 points. That's two field goals and Henne's lack of penchant for first downs gave them plenty of chances. Again. Henne played like "shiznit." None of his passes were close to INTs because many of his passes were close to anyone.
What is Henne's lack of penchant for first downs? Go back to the tape and point out every easy first down that he flat out missed. Every pass completion that he flat out missed. Then we'll have a starting point. Then go look at everyone that receivers weren't open, every first down that a RB didn't get.
Chad Henne led Miami to victory with his inspired play. That's that. Stats don't mean anything. Henne is the QB of the future, rest easy Miami. If you don't agree with that then you obviously didn't watch the game.
I cant believe this is even an arguement . When a QB completes 5, count them, 5 passes for an entire game and the team still wins. THEY WON IN SPITE OF THE QB. All this Henne love for the sake of being a homer is getting rediculous.