He threw a fly to Hartline and underthrew him. You want him to take a shot with a guy he had already shown he had no timing with?
Easy to say that considering you've never seen a Henning offense before. Panthers fans hated him for being conservative. For playing for FG's. No difference here at all. The playcalling is a joke obviously, and each week it seems a player on the other team can't wait to tell everyone how much of a joke it is.
yeah because the panthers were never on tv the entire time henning was there. If you think this is the same playcalling as 2003 you weren't watching the panthers. They took shots down the field on a regular basis. 2006 the oline was decimated and that caused the more conservative approach much like here
I keep hearing this nonsense about the O-Line but when this O-Line was healthy at the beginning of the year, they were giving Henne an eternity to pass back there and he couldn't get rid of the ball for the life of him. 1. We blamed it on Henning. 2. We blamed it on the WRs. 3. We blamed it on the TEs. 4. We blamed it on the O-Line. What do you think other QBs do? Sit back there with five-six seconds on each play? Hell no. Everything to believe it wasn't our beloved franchised quarterback's fault.
This O-Line was never any good. Henne had an eternity because we ran max protect. Max protect while there's 2 guys running routes, easily covered. And this happens all the damn time. The cluelessness of this coaching staff is mind boggling.
So now we judge QB's based on one play? One? If that were the case, then all NFL QB's suck. Curtis showed up two days before the game, they'd never played together before, and Henne messed up the timing. In my opinion, Curtis could've dove for the ball and pulled it in...it was maybe 3 yards overthrown. It was catchable....and it was one play. One.
Jake Delhomme AYA in 2003: 7.2 Chad Henne AYA in 2010: 6.9 Not much of a difference obviously. Dan Henning has always been very conservative, has always been a part of bad offenses (Five top 10 offenses in 32 years), has always been a part of losing teams (9 winning seasons in 32 years) and that's never going to change. He's just not a good playcaller, never was, never will.
The defense was built by the regime sticking to their plan. The "Planet Theory" worked to develop an effective DL with higher picks while proving that 6 feet 200lb football players are available with late picks and UDFA to build secondary depth. Unfortunately, the offense deviated from their plan, which I believe was to have a prototype QBs with a lively arm in order to spread defenses with 10 - 25 yard passes. The most significant mistake was trying to compliment Pennington with Thigpen and White. By failing to stick with their prototype QB, the back-ups have not been able to develop the WRs and TEs that Ireland has been accumulating. And the lack of contribution from the 2nd TE and 4th WR has produced an offense without the ability to exploit any match-up advantages by targeting the weakest defenders. As for the future, I think it's best to continue to trust in Ireland. If he can find Clemons, Carroll, Jones, Amaya, and Ness, I assume that TEs and WRs he's churning through are athletic enough to complete with such defenders. Moreover, I would not be surprised if we're hearing some double-speak from Parcells who may have overvalued some players (Donald Thomas, Henne) and is more likely to gamble (Jayson Foster, Pat White). Ireland is a SOB, whom I think would stick to his prototypes, which I believe leads to finding a QB as Rams did over a decade ago (Trent Green > Warner > Bulger). And if this happens, the offense will start make plays with 10 -25 yard throws to spread the defense out.
Henning's offense is what it has always been. He relies on a 2 TE system and a ton of max protect. He has had success when he's had a good running game and struggled when he didn't. He does have deep routes in the system, but using a buzzer in practice, preaching "no mistakes" and showing little faith in your young QB isn't a recipe that will result in a lot of deep shots being taken.
absolutely right with the run game. if you have henning as your OC you have to give him the personnel to have an effective run game first and foremost. Everything is based off that. However, when he has that, he will attack you deep off of it as he did in Carolina with Steve Smith.
the stat to find would be big play +25 yds. also you would have to skew 2003 since henning didnt open up the offense until the latter part of the season once he got comfortable with delhomme. 2004 or 2005 would probably be better if you're going entire season. when he's not comfortable with you everything stays dink and dunk
Unfortunately, when the running game wasn't producing, he couldn't or wouldn't adapt. The result was an offense with almost no chance to succeed. The best coaches are the ones to adapt to their players. Henning is not one of those.
considering the QBs he's worked with you can probably count on one hand the amount of OCs that could have produced without a run game to offset the QBs mediocrity. Thats the thing with Henning, he doesnt need Peyton Manning but he needs a Hog line and a Stephen Davis to produce
Five top 10 scoring offenses in 32 seasons. That "success" you speak of is few and far between to say the least. Ground and pound is recipe for failure in todays NFL.
7.3 in 2005. A whole .1 better than the year prior. It was a 7.9 in 2005. And that improvement came from throwing deep much less, and checking down much more.
He doesn't need Peyton Manning you say. Perhaps maybe he does considering he has five top 10 offenses and 9 winning seasons in 32 years as an NFL coach. Those hog lines and good running backs sure has done wonders for his offenses let me tell you! Too bad Henning can't develop QB's, or call proper passing plays, or adjust his offense even the slightest, or adjust in game even the slightest. Terrible excuse for an OC.
giants, falcons, chiefs, ravens, jaguars, steelers and jets are all riding different variations of ground and pound to the playoffs. Don't see how its a recipe for failure
The stat to look for Is 25 yd plays if you're looking for throwing deep. Stats inc has them but I can oly find 2010. You're juist going buy avg which incorporates short, inermediate and long
Giants: Top 10 QB, top 5 defense Falcons: Top 10 QB, Top 10 defense Chiefs: Top 10 QB, 11th ranked defense Ravens: Top 10 QB, Top 5 defense Jaguars: Top 10 QB, 28th ranked defense Steelers: Top 10 QB, 1st ranked defense Jets: 28th ranked QB, Top 5 defense Notice a trend?
No need. Five top 10 offenses in 32 years is exactly that. He's a terrible playcaller, specifically his passing philosophy. He can't develop QB's, which has a lot to do with his terrible system. He doesn't adjust his offense. He doesn't make in game adjustments. Steal a page from this idiot's book all you want by blaming everyone else.
Yet some people still want to let these 2 idiots around the next QB we draft! That 3 second buzzer is the most ******ed thing I have ever heard! Look how many of Brees, Brady, Manning, Big Raper, etc big plays come well after 3 seconds! Compound that buzzer with the below average skill set Henne brings to the table and well you get 1 offensive td against Cleveland! We keep Morano and some how manage to trade up for Luck and I am going on record right now the will Alex Smith him!
Couldn't agree more. Keep these morons away from any QB we draft please. They haven't the slightest clue how to develop one. Their offense is a disaster which will ruin any QB who plays in it.
Agree very much with this..... which is also why I don't think he's done. He's our QB, yet we treat him as an afterthought rather than treating him as "Lets get this guy a better line, a new OC, a better ground game, and some WRs/TEs who match up to his needs/skillset (rather than Penny's) and see if we can't keep him in his hot streaks for much of the time. IMO it's very possible. He needs to get excited about playing, and I don't see how any QB could get excited about playing here with this offense and this OC. He needs an OC who will devise an offense around him, rather than the one used for the QB before him. Mentally he needs this so that he "knows" that this is his show. He needs a year with no Penny lurking in the shadows so that he can actually feel as though "he's the man" rather than a trial run. Do you think he doesn't know that this offense isn't suited for him?..... or that our playcalling does nothing to maximize his play? Do you think he enjoys not being able to use that cannon of an arm? Mentally, this all has to wear on a QB (or any player under a similar situation). Just look at his playfakes--- you know he's half-arsing it b/c he realizes 90% of them are pointless and not helping his play. IMO this franchise needs to get his heart back in the game. This starts with FINALLY drafting 1 freakin player who is FOR HENNE rather than for this stupid conservative offense!! That'll go a LONG way towards putting a smile on his face, making him feel important, and boosting his confidence etc. This will never happen, but if people truly want to see what Henne is made of and watch this offense blossom, we'd move Marshall to the slot, sign Mike Sims-Walker, and then draft a guy like Justin Blackmon, Leonard Hankerson, Jon Baldwin, or Greg Little.... as well as adding a stud receiving TE like Scheffler or grabbing Rudolph or DJ Williams in the draft. I'd stake my life that Henne would be looking as good as Kitna is in Dallas, only with more upside than Kitna. (not to mention our blocking from the position would outstanding).
That's bc he has a cannon for an arm that needs to be throwing downfield MUCH more often (and be given the personnel to do so). He doesn't have a lollipop arm like Penny. It's easy for Penny to make all the short-intermediate throws b/c he can just throw it normally. Henne doesn't have that advantage; has to take something off his throws and try AND still try and be precise etc. That's playing to his weakness rather than his strength. Chad has done a fine job of adjusting to where he can make all the short-intermediate throws, but he's not the kind of guy whom we can force his entire game to be that. Sooner or later the wheels will fall off b/c he's not Penny. Chad needs to be a THROWER, not dinker and dunker like this current staff has tried to make him become.
Please dont compare Henne to Brady because I could name at least a trillion other things Brady does better so lets not nitpick.
But we're not talking about the trillion other things. We're talking about throwing deep. It's a relevant point that guys like Brady and Manning miss deep passes when they don't have the personnel to help them out.... or when they don't get into a rhythm. Most of the QBs in the league (including Manning) are going to miss a deep pass if they're only able to throw them once every game or 2. They need at least 3 or 4 a game to allow themselves to get into a rhythm and get their timing down so that they can hit on 1 or 2 a game. Asking a QB to hit on his only 1 per game is virtually asking him to fail.
He does not have a Killer instinct! He has a play it safe instinct, and while in part it might have been brought on by the staff, they are the ones who picked him thus they must have seen that quality in him in the first place! BTW no, I don't want him back, it will only infect our future Offensive players! Henne needs to go. m2c!
yup. guess we're the only team with a top 10 qb and a top 5 defense who isnt going to be in the playoffs. oh wait
no i think you do need to. to begin with its 23 yrs not 32 years and the QBs he has had are the definition of mediocre. to blame a qb/wr coach for an offense is like blaming our WR coach for our offense. if you take out the head coaching jobs, since a head coach is more of a delegating position rather than a playcalling position, he has 16 yrs. in those 16 yrs he has been top ten 4 times or 25%. he has been top 16 eight times or 50%. None of the QBs he has had were elite QBs in the Peyton Manning mode. Alot of the QBs he had were scrubs. If you only control for the average QBs (Theisman, Doug Williams, Jay Schroeder, Vinnie Testeverde, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme) and exclude the bums you have ten years to work with. of those ten years he was top ten four times or 40% and top 16 eight times or 80%. That is why he has been in the business for forty years and why coaches regard him highly as our coach Sparano does. Coaches unlike fans look at the talent that is being coached not just the record. Only fans and media look at records and stats 1981–1982 - Washington Redskins - Off Coordinator 81/ Joe Thiesman 16 gms started (#9 offense) 82/ Joe Theisman 9 gms started (strike shortened) Super Bowl win (#7 offense) 1983–1986 - Atlanta Falcons - Head Coach 83/ Steve Bartkowski 14 gms started 83/ Mike Moroski 3 gms started 84/ Steve Bartkowski 11 gms started 84/ Mike Moroski 5 gms started 85/ David Archer 11 gms started 85/ Steve Bartkowski 5 gms started 86/ David Archer 11 gms started 86/ Turk Schonert 5 gms started 1987–1988 - Washington Redskins - Off Coordinator 87/ Jay Schroeder 11 gms started (#3 offense) 87/ Doug Williams 2 gms started Super Bowl win 87/ Ed Rubbert 3 gms started 88/ Doug Williams 10 gms started (#6 offense) 88/ Mark Rypien 6 gms started 1989–1991 - San Diego Chargers - Head Coach 89/ Jim McMahon 11 gms started 89/ Billy Joe Tolliver 5 gms started 90/ Billy Joe Tolliver 14 gms started 90/ John Friesz 1 gm started 90/ Mark Vlasic 1 gm started 91/ John Friesz 16 gms started 1992–1993 - Detroit Lions – Offensive Coordinator 92/ Rodney Peete 10 gms started (#19 offense) 92/ Andre Ware 3 gms started 92/ Erik Kramer 3 gms started 93/ Rodney Peete 10 gms started (#24 offense) 93/ Erik Kramer 4 gms started 93/ Andre Ware 2 gms started 1997 -Buffalo Bills - Offensive Coordinator 97/ Todd Collins 13 gms started ( #25 offense) 97/ Alex Van Pelt 3 gms started 1998–1999 - New York Jets - QB Coach 2000 - New York Jets - Offensive Coordinator 00/ Vinnie Testeverde 16 gms started ( #12 offense) 2002–2006 - Carolina Panthers - Offensive Coordinator 02/ Rodney Peete 14 gms started (#31 offense) 02/ Randy Fasani 1 gm started 02/ Chris Weinke 1 gm started 03/ Jake Delhomme 15 gms started (#16 offense) 03/ Rodney Peete 1 gm started 04/ Jake Delhomme 16 gms started (#13 offense) 05/ Jake Delhomme 16 gms started (#22 offense) 06/ Jake Delhomme 13 gms started (#24 offense) 06/ Chris Weinke 3 gms started 2008–present - Miami Dolphins - Offensive Coordinator 2008 chad pennington (#12 offense) 2009 chade henne (#17 offense)
I think the three second buzzer is about as dumb as I've ever heard. But one poster said they do it so the safety would not have enough time to intercept every pass. If a safety is given 5 seconds to get there, henne's INT's would be alot more. It has some merit.
When you are getting intercepted and batted down at the line it's because (like I have been saying for the last nine weeks) this guy is WAAY to obvious with what he is doing. Buffalo is a rotten team, but if you watch their QB, his mechanics, and skills are far past what Henne's are. Watch the film and look at Fitz's eyes when he is on the pass. He never looks directly at where he is throwing, Henne does. Nothing personal against Chad, but we will never, ever, ever, go any where with this offense until these wrinkles are worked out. Defensive linemen are pretty slow with their hands, and when they bat your balls down like this you couldn't get any more obvious. Further; the reason that our offensive play book is so vanilla is that it has been dumbed down 1000 fold to match the baby skills of our QB. You can't get very tricky when you can only use 1/8 of your playbook. The coaches are frustrated, Henne is easily three years away from full development and our offensive line has forgotten how to run block. Basically, we have an inconsistent passing game with no running game and we actually wonder why we have no offense?! ALL OF THIS IS TONY SPORANO'S FAULT! How did he expect to thrust Chad into the Brandon Marshall pass frenzy offense of his dreams when he knew that Chad wasn't fully developed? How did he expect to run the ball efficiently when all he did with his line during the off season was pass block? Brandon Marshall was arguably the worst thing that has happened to this team in years, not because he is a bad player, he's great, but because of what Sporano did to the rest of the offense around him. We took a very successful 'run to pass' offense and neutered it on one of Sporano's dreams. There are a lot of players taking a ton of heat that really shouldn't be. This is a very talented football team. All we need is new leadership, and three new players. If I were running this team I would fire Ireland, Sporano and make Tuna's mind up for him. Then I would replace them with coaches who actually have had proven success in going to the big game. This Parcells experiment in Miami needs to end. Tuna brings in two cub scouts for HC and GM and says he's gonna watch over them, and then he leaves? WTF???!!?!?! Hardly money well spent.
You're talking about drafting a whole team to support henne. That is funny. If the Raiders would have drafted a better, WR, OL, RB and TE, Russell might still be in the NFL too. I do agree with moving Marshall to the slot. He would eat up defenses there. I think he could have played the slot this year. Hartline could stretch the field enough and we could just put Bess out a little farther too.
Speaking of top 5 defenses, I think that puppy has growed up a bit, and you did say you'd change when the defense deserves it.
So you're proving my point for me that Henning can't develop QB's worth ****. Thanks. Hopefully we get this joke of an OC out of here before we bring in the next "franchise QB" so he can't ruin him too. Of course knowing you, it's only coincidence that Henning has never had good QB play. Laughable.
