Henning: Dolphins lack speed, changes haven't worked

Yep, and let the Wr make a play no matter what the defense is doing, he should be dictating to the defense not the defense dictating to him, but instead of doing so..check down..DBess..check down..Ronnie Brown..check down..Fasano.

Add in, as the advance scout said "Henne is not very accurate on deep passes" and here we are, the Wr corps is fine, the problem starts with #7.

 

the only thing i'll give him is the fact that we don't have playmakers on this team ..... Marshall is to a degree, but he is more Micheal Irvin than a guy that can take it to the house on any given play. We knew that when we got him .... and he's provided what we expected - to a point, given that he is the focus of every opposing teams secondary.

Point is .... playmakers are not a function or priority to this regime -- at whilst Parcells was here .... additionally, Ronnie can be a playmaker -- and just what has Henning done to try and get him in the open field .... ummmm, not a damn thing .... except of course, the absolutely predictable WC, so to Henning -- point and counter-point .....

 

he has nothing to work with. there is nothing ludicrous about that. he doesnt have a QB who's ready yet, he has backup quality offensive linemen making up 3/5s of his line for most of the year and now 4/5s. he has two RBs who have no burst anymore, he lacks a seam splitting TE with speed and he lacks a WR who can run under a 4.4. Sorry, there are very few offenses that have as poor a combination of talent as we do right now. the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head is carolina and the nfc west teams

 

Not this coaching staff. They think you win through manipulation of Xs and Os to create mismatches and running plays designed to pick up a certain amount of yards. This is a big reason why the coaches bash player execution: they’re calling plays designed to go for 4 yards and getting 2 or 3.

Basically, the coaches aren’t allowing the accumulated talent to take over.

 

I disagree with that Adamp, Hartline was plenty fast enough, the problem was early in the yr he was dropping passes, later in the yr Henne stopped throwing deep passes, even BM had some nice long plays early in the season, by later in the yr, those are not even attempted, no "throw it up and let him get it" throws.

No routes deep over the middle either.

Agree about the running backs, RW fell off of the cliff, RB is more or less a blocking back now, RW is amazingly poorly rated by PFF, it sort of stunned me when it was pointed out he is #45, add in Lou Polite also fell off the cliff, and this has been one ugly season on offense.

Sparano thinks Epps offers what DMart did for us so moving forwards that is something to watch.

As for the Oline, tough to tell, and I am not attempting to alibi anyone, I've seen much worse, seen much better, think other teams run blitz us an awful lot as they know Henne is extremely limited in his ability to check out of plays, and when does check out of a run to a pass, they also know Henne won't take a shot down the field.

Which is why, once again, we have heard "Henne is easy to defend".

 

we have far too many front office problems with this team.
clock managment (too many instances of it)
play calling (too many questionable plays attempted and failed. opposing defenses knowing what we will and wont do and publicly admitting it for weeks straight)
personelle decisions ( we dont get rid of struggling coaches into their unit completely collapses and the fans demand their head on a chopping block)
drafting choices (definitely not all of them, but there are a lot that are huge questions from the start and never show unquestioned potential )
player development (pruitt still on the PS but were elevating guys ahead of him like wallace and moore? nobody seems to step up and earn a shot. they all get it by default or injuries)

if you think of the team or oranization as a machine or appliance it doesnt feel like its being assembled with the best results in mind. it feels like its being pieced together just to keep it chugging along. fortunately for the fans, a bone does have to be thrown their way every once in a while because the team does need them to buy tickets and merchandise. but i dont see us achieving the desired results from our performance pieces, untill we obtain qaulified control pieces.

 

No offense, you're a great poster and conversation starter, but you've apparently never played QB, or any other position, I'll try to explain as best I can. Our WRs are slow. All of them. Hartline runs in the mid 4.5s and he's our fastest guy. If you're going to throw deep to guys like that, you have to have one of two things, either a perfect throw or an underthrown ball that the WR makes a play on. This is b/c, 90% o fthe time, the DB chasing our WR downfield is faster than the WR who is running for the ball. So if you throw the ball farther than the DB can run, then you are also (90%) throwing the ball farther than the WR can run.

Henning made a GREAT call on the play action throw to Curtis early. Marshall went down the seam and the safety jumped on him, leaving a huge void in the Cover 2 for Curtis to run into. Great call, great design. Problem is, Curtis is too slow to run away from the coverage. If Henne throws that ball any shorter, Florence is able to reach it. Henne would've been relying on Curtis to make a play on a 50/50 ball, which BTW, hasn't happened all year. Keep in mind that Curtis has been on the team for 3 days and Henne probably has no feel for how far to lead him on a play like that. Add in the wind (Carpenter missed those FGs for a reason) and you're talking about a pass where the QB would have to be absolutely perfect. If Tedd Ginn is running that route, Henne can just air it out and let Teddy run under it, no precision needed, its a different ball game when you're throwing to a guy who runs a 4.6, who's being covered by a guy who runs a 4.5.

 

I blame Henne for going WC with the game on the line and facing a defense that was on it's heels. I blame Henning for going 2WR 2RB 1TE with 41 seconds to go and us needing 50 yards to get into FG range. That last drive was criminal negligence, basically giving up.

You love defending Henning, so please explain what he was thinking with 41 ticks on the clock last week.

 

yet I have seen quarterbacks overthrow Ted Ginn. In fact Pennington did when Ted Ginn was open for a 99 yard touchdown.

 

Padre .... not so sure we're really talking about 'accuracy' regarding Henne and his deep throws .... what he really needs to work on with the WRs is timing, in order to give them a chance to make the play. Where he has gotten in trouble is that he underthrows, most noticeably Hartline in that last game. It was just surprising to see him underthrow by about 10 yards, especially when there was no threat of a Safety sliding over. Early in the season his timing with Hartline was pretty good - so not sure what has happened during the season. Timing with Marshall just hasn't been there all year .... i just think he has zero confidence with deep throws, he has no anticipation or timing with them. If we want to argue left vs right shoulder .... ok, but to me that is more aniticipation as well ....... knowing exactly what the WR is going to do. No matter, he made some strides with the mid-range throws this year ..... and now he can focus on overall timing, anticipation and deep throws this offseason ....

 

Padre problem with that one is that Henne gets frustrated like that. I know you'd like your players to be tougher than that, mentally stronger but remember a young Elway, young Brees, even young Brady. Sometimes they get frustrated and do throw deep. I think that's what happened with Bess instead of Fasano in that one interception against Cleveland. It's inexcusable but you get to understand a little bit of the problem on offense. The passing lanes are constricted, team speed is not respected, and Henne is already rattled.

Every top passing team in this league has a deep threat or two on its offense. Let's Houston for example, because I think they're the team Miami should emulate in receiving corp personnel:

- Jacoby Jones is a legitimate deep threat.
- Andre Johnson is a legitimate deep threat.
- Owen Daniels can get deep.
- Kevin Walter is not.

Not only do they create room but they use Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels in the running game to create lanes for Arian Foster by taking on nickel and dime personnel. We don't do that. We put Mastrud on the field and Polite who bring mediocre blocking and no receiving against full size 3-4 and 4-3 personnel. That's stupid.

Furthermore Henne sees the field far better in the spread. Remember how quickly he chewed up Tennessee when Miami went to the spread with a receiving back in? He was going 15-20 yards at a time and that was still with our slow receiving corp. Say the team had a legitimate deep threat, there would be even more room. That game against Florida that got him all the attention a few years ago? They wen't to the spread and Henne kicked ***.

Put Henne in the best situation to win:

- Go 3 WR, one TE.
- Go out of a traditional under center approach.
- Quit with the bull**** play action and then surprise a team with it, every once in a while say on 3 and 2 a traditional PA situation.

You'll see good results out of him. I'm sorry I can't get behind Orton, Palmer, and even McNabb anymore. There are some problems with those guys that are just as glaring as Henne, not to mention they take away from the players an offense can acquire. At WORST, acquiring better players for Henne now will let you get a QB in 2012 that can really help you, not these run of the muck Jake Locker- Ryan Mallet flawed QBs.

My suggestion is that Miami pick a receiver between Bess, Hartline and Marshall to replace not because they're a poor receiver but they don't compliment each other as all great receiving groups do. Marshall you can't get rid of just because of his contract and his red zone value and talent, so it's between Bess and Hartline. I know a number of people would go with Hartline, but I'd go with Bess. He brings much of what Bess brings except he's a better deep threat and he plays on the outside well. I want Brandon Marshall to be the slot guy. I want a tight end that can flex out to be the other slot guy. That means you need two outside receivers. You can get excellent trade value for Bess, that could bring in a young running back probably in the top of the second round like a Leshoure or Hunter. You can get another WR capable of blowing the top off of the defense that will give your TE, Hartline (an intermediate receiver), and Marshall the most room to work with. I know it sucks trading Bess but one of these guys has to go and I think he's the guy that presents the best trade value.

Also on another note that you acquire need not be an exceptional player in all aspects of the game. Jacoby Jones is no exceptional WR, Mike Wallace isn't anything amazing other than when he's going deep, Tate in New England isn't some amazing WR (Hernandez is the other deep threat), and Pierre Garcon is not an amazing WR either. It's be done through the ages. Ted Ginn could have been that guy, no doubt. You can get better than that though without too much difficulty.

Now here's a suggestion for a draft:

1- Julio Jones
2 (for Bess) - Mikel Leshoure


FA:

- Owen Daniels
- Logan Mankins
- DeAngelo Williams

I think you can afford those guys since you're not picking up an expensive quarterback. Even if you can't get DeAngelo there are affordable options, like a Michael Bush and then getting another guy in the third stuff like that. Point is though you create an impressive receiving corps that compliments each other and most importantly is a downright tough team to stop in the run game with the run-blocking prowess they'll show against the undersized guys who try to stop them.

 

San Diego game, first drive. That's not exactly Top Secret info. Ginn was overthrown once in 3 years. The exception that proves the rule.

My point is the same. If you don't have speed outside, its difficult to throw deep. There are NFL players on the other side of the ball as well, something that seems to be forgotten sometimes.

 

Disagree, Marhsall specialized in catching then shedding the defensive back and piling up RAC, but with Henne he does not have the feel for being a Qb to get the ball out quickly and accurately enough to allow that to happen.

Hartline ran a 4.5 flat and can go up for the ball and take it away from a DB, sadly, Henne doesn't put the ball up for him to do so, instead, he takes the safe checkdown or..throws it 4 yds over the Wr head and out of bounds.

As for outright speed, what did Rice run in the 40 again? And once they come to the NFL, in the words of Jason Taylor "I haven't run a 40 in yrs"...

Curtis had 2 steps on the DB, that is NCAA open, in the NFL that rarely happens, Henne flat missed him, like he flat missed Hartline in the Bengals game..twice..recall Hartline was open deep twice, once in the endzone and Henne was not even close to completing either pass.

I know you are a Henne guy GM, for me, I've seen enough of him, he has had 4 games to show me something and we have 10/10/14 pts to show for it..in must win games including what 5 interceptions?

If Toddphins reads this, he should be able to recall me saying Henne can be okay if he had more weapons to work with, now, I am tending to think that is throwing good money after bad with Chad Henne, it would be better to find someone else as Henne is just a mess.

 

How is that the exception that proves the rule?

Ginn was open deep last year and Henne rarely threw him the ball deep.

it is even more difficult to throw deep when the quarterback does not throw the ball deep.

 

Focus...I'm talking about our offense

 

The throw you're referring to is the one time that Henne underthrew Hartline. In the 1st Jets game he overthrew Hartline on the 1st play. In the 2nd Jets game last year he overthrew Hartline. It's tough to throw deep to slow guys, period. You're trying to throw it to where they can get to to it but the defender cannot, and its impossible to anticipate just how open a guy is going to be. Henne hasn't thrown to Marshall deep b/c teams are bracketing him. If he tries, its an INT and then people bash him for forcing throws. NFL teams aren't stupid. They know Marshall is our only down the field threat, and they take him away. Can't blame Henne for that.

 

There isn't a different offseason for offense and defense.

 

Hartline is not slow

 

Hartline and BM both can get deep it is more that Henne just does not hit them when they do get behind the defense it is maddening to watch.

I would love to see the offense go 3 wides and run a no huddle, not sure if Henne could handle it though as the 2 minute drill has just been brutal to watch this year, so if he cannot run that, how could he run a no huddle offense?

That is why I have seen enough of Chad Henne, you just cannot do anything with him, he is a sort of malfunctioning pass throwing statue of whom what you see, is what you get.

Love for him to prove me wrong though.

 

Still have yet to see a clip of Henne staring down a safety.

 

oh no. that 41 second fiasco is undefensible IMO. but running it on 2nd down was absolutely the right call and the wildcat was probably the right formation to run out of. we only needed three yards to get it under a 45 yd FG which is a gimme for NFL kickers. and we would have still had a shot at first down on 3rd but with a shorter area to get. Absolutely correct call

 

Wow I can't believe people are defending Henning.

 

who is defending Henning?

 

lol. that made me spit up my coffee

 

Henning is gone and he knows it. Between Sparano praising him a ton recently, and Henning starting to become more vocal, it leads me to believe that he actually may want to continue on somewhere else. Because if he was just retiring, I don't think you would see the senior citizen OC giving this much meat to the media sharks.

While true that we don't have a ton of speed on offense, it is up to the OC to develop a gameplan that utilizes the strengths of the weapons you DO have. I honestly think that Henning/Sparano/Ireland traded for MArshall because he was a name with stats, without really grasping what he does well and not so well.

Marshall needs the ball in space. He breaks tackles and scraps for yards. He is NOT a deep threat in the traditional speed sense. He uses his body to shield defenders and then throw them off to the side while gianing yards. Yet I have yet to see us even TRY a WR screen to him. Give ihm the ball with a couple of blockers in front, let him have a second to read the field and he will make things happen. The closest I have seen was a ROnnie Brown pass that Marsh dropped but that wasn't a screen, it was just a step back route...something that is better for Bess.

Bess is exactly the guy you want to toss the ball in a crowded area and let him make people miss. As PAdre said, his routes don't have to create a ton of space provided you can get him the ball. An inch is enough room for him to work.

Hartline is our "speed" threat which...isn't too intimidating. Ginn probably would have bene a good option a sopposed to trading him away. Not that he was or is anything special but with Marshall rightfully getting a ton of over the top help form safeties, Ginn could run streaks a handful plays down the field (perhaps with Hartline) and Henne would have the option of chucking deep. As it stands, now, we simply don't have that threat.

Yet we gameplan like we do. It really is confusing.

 

Let's cut the crap and acknowledge where this endless debate has left us:

Those of you still supporting Henning are trying to suggest we have no means of even evaluating him because he has "nothing" on offense compared to when he had something on offense in 2008 and we had success. Those of us who don't support Henning see clear flaws in this argument. First, the success of 2008 came from a lot of reasons: 1) Pennington's amazing play, 2) the ability of the Wildcat to overcome our deficiencies in the run-game, 3) a record-setting turnover differential, and 4) a cupcake schedule. So forgive us if we don't see 2008 as some testament to Henning's greatness. Similarly, many of us do not just assume the man is a high quality coordinator simply because he's been around the league for so long. We've had a thread that has shown that his "success" has been mixed. Additionally, there's the whole concept that a coordinator can simply "lose it" or "slump." I've said before that I don't consider coordinating to be this master craft or a skill that one develops over a lifetime. Dan Henning is not a master violin player. We're not suggesting that he woke up one day and forgot how to play his instrument. Calling plays and game-planning is an evolving discipline. You evolve, or you get passed by. Simple. Finally, there's the issues with this year. We have opposing defenses calling out our offense for being predictable. While some have suggested that being able to predict routes is a common phenomenon, that still does not explain why our offense, of all of the offenses in the league, should be receiving this criticism on multiple occasions. There's also the situational play-calling that, at times, has just been baffling and generally betrays a lack of appreciation for the importance of misdirection and unpredictability. As I said in my other thread, the staff seems to think they should be able to just line up, tell the defense what they are running, and still out-execute them. I'd admire their resolve if it hasn't proven to be so foolish in application. And if we don't have the players to execute the ideal play-calling, then adapt! Get creative (like we did with the misdirection screen to Fasano, which still stands as probably our best offensive play of the year). But we don't. We continue to run predictable plays and blaming the lack of success on execution. At some point, you have to say that is on Henning. Even if it's true we cannot fully evaluate him, I don't see what he has done to warrant such faith. And the fact of the matter is, at 68, scapegoat or not, he's likely not coming back next year. We should just deal with that reality and move on.

 

Preach Padre. Henne seems very reluctant to throw into coverage and let Marshall bail him out, the trust level seems to be low there.

Fitzpatrick threw several passes that should've been INTs but were completions instead. The 1st TD rent right through Dansby's hands, he was in perfect position but he didnt get his head around in time. Vontae gave up two big plays where he was in excellent coverage. Smith dropped another INT. Smith was also in position to at least deflect the 2nd TD, but he didn't. Fitzpatrick had the confidence (craziness?) to throw into coverage, and its a confidence that Henne hasn't shown all year.

I don't blame QB though, its our philosophy to avoid TOs at all costs, and Henne plays to that. I'd love to see him take more risks, but between the coaching and the defenses we face, I can understand why he doesn't.

 

the receiving corps overall is ok IMO. We could use a speed guy but its way down the list of priorities. The offensive line on the other hand has been a disaster in the run game all year and Sparano finally admitted that last week by saying they cant block the second level. Thats the difference between a 3 yd gain and a 7 yd gain. Add the fact that Ronnie has no burst this year and we took away a vital part of our offense. If either Henne had progressed better or the run blocking was better we might have been able to overcome the other deficiency. But since both pass and run were deficient, it was virtually impossible to do antyhing

 

It wouldn't matter. Henne would tell the defense exactly where the ball is going.

 

Whatever. The only time Hartline has run away from anyone was after he got tispy and crashed his truck.

 

And yet over the years Henning has had guys like Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad, Lamar Smith, Stephen Davis, DeShaun Foster, DeAngelo Williams, Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Ted Ginn (if we are only talking speed), and now Brandon Marshall and ONLY has "one" team finish in the top 10 in offense (#8).

Henning has had plenty of talented players with big-play ability. Many OC have done much more with much less talent.

Coaches and Coordinators are supposed to be "LEADERS" and GOOD leaders always take responsibility for their part.

Henning SUCKS!

 

he was a state champioin hurdler.

 

Sorry, but yes, it is ludicrous to insist he has "nothing." He has a quarterback who can make throws. He's young and has flaws, but he has proven time and again that he can lead the team down the field when you give him a chance. He went 9 for 9 on our first scoring drive in the 4th quarter and followed that up with a great drive until he threw one incompletion and Henning decided to throw up the white flag to the defense and trot out the Wildcat. Those are not the first drives that Henne has had like that. So you'll excuse me if I take issue with you saying he has nothing. He also has one of the best wide receivers in the game and one of the best slot receivers in the game. While the offensive line has not been stellar, the pass blocking has been above average for most of the year. The offense has by no means been perfect, but to suggest that Dan Henning has had "nothing" is pure hyperbole.

 

Ginn was open deep when? What game? What play?

 

as bad as henne has been, he would look a heck of a lot better if his WRs could break a tackle and bust one down the line like every other team, good or bad, in this league does.

 

In high school. I congratulate him.

 

Bess never won a state championship in hurdling. Bess is slow.

 

scoring or yds. he runs a ball ctrl offense. yds are more important

 

Ignoring the notion that we shouldn't have been playing for a FG in the first place...There are a hundred ways to get 3 yds. You dont have to announce to the defense that you only want 3 yds. Spread the field and run a draw. A screen. Hit Bess underneath. Smoke route to Marshall. You KNOW that Buffalo is more worried about allowing a TD than they are a FG, use that to your advantage. Make them defend the whole field, then it'll be a lot easier to get the 3 yds you're looking for. As it was, we broadcast to the world that we were only interested in a few yds and made it easy for the defense to take it away. Stupid.

 

That is the issue though, a good Qb makes those plays, you know as well as "base to base" football, meaning 1 step at a time, won't work because it requires perfection to implement, the Qb (and skill guys on offense to be fair)..simply have to make plays that create chunks of yards, whether it appears safe or not.

I'd prefer for Henne to plant his feet and let some laser balls fly into tight coverage, would not complain at all, what is happening though is Henne is not getting good enough reads and planting his feet and just zinging the ball.