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Hennes lack of progress

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bcfinfan, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, for those who wonder how I could go from "monkey" to "keep Henne" it is simple.

    Henne in Henning's offense drop back, I formation, etc, is just not very good, thus the monkey stack the box analogy, he has to do things step by step, takes him awhile to figure out what was happening etc.

    Henne in a 3 wide, no huddle, shotgun offense, was a joy to watch, ball came out fast, decisions were made quickly, the offense had a spark, but like lighting a match that burned out quickly as soon as Murtha went out and Berger came in, and Incognito moved to G, that offense was dead, Berger is just not very good.

    We then went back to the I formation and lo and behold..Henne was terrible.

    What I did not mind about Henne's picks today is..he was going down the field, not deep down the field, but in that middle of the field area that creates 10 plus yard plays..

    Give Henne a Sproiles or Best and unhook from the plowhorse running backs then see what he can really do as a draw to Pat Cobbs is not scaring anyone.
     
  2. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What's wrong with having my mind made up? I watch the games. I PAY to attend the games. I root for the guy to succeed while I'm PAYING. How about the guy have some consecutive well played games and allow the opportunity to turn the other way. He's done absolutely nothing to make me feel otherwise. Don't call me ignorant because you're the same darn guy on the other side of the fence. I have a stance and opinion based off clear indications of poor play.

    Let me ask you this...How can Bess be indirectly at fault for the pick 6, and Henne have absolutely no fault for the pick 6? Someone has to be at fault for the play. I mean it was a terrible play. He threw that ball into triple coverage, when we were on our side of the field. There is no reason to try and be that aggressive. He stared him down the entire play and three guys were swarmed around him. Someone is open! I differ in that, whether Bess falls or not it's still an INT. At the very least it's an incompletion in which the defender has a pass defensed and Bess can somehow knock it down or away from him. It was a very poor decision.

    You want to talk about ignorance and making your mind up before looking into things. How about you read my post? How about you read it thoroughly. Because had you done that, rather than just go straight to attacking, you'd see I don't blame Henne for his 1st interception. That's clearly a miscommunication that happens between a young TE and a QB that don't have as much time together. Also, I talk about how the OC didn't exactly help the guy out either and maybe Henne has taken on the personality of the offensive staff which has very poor feel for a game flow.

    I can't stand how you disregard those things as mistakes by other players then absolve him for the other plays he didn't make. Why don't you make mention to the other balls that should have been clearly intercepted? Including the TD to Bess...that was not a positive play whatsoever for Chad Henne. It was a poor read where Bess was bracketed. It was a poor throw that went through the DBs hands. And it was a miracle and luck that it went to Bess. Bess made the great play of keeping concentration and keeping his feet in. What about the horrible over-throw to a wide open Marshall on a TD pass? Great play-call. Great execution all the way around, EXCEPT Henne. Instead we get more negative plays and don't get any points.

    I mean you're the quickest person to go straight to the other reasons why things don't work out and absolve the guy, yet you NEVER take a subjective look on what he struggled with. I mean...I know that I don't think Henne is the guy, but at least I can take things out and see where he isn't a fault or where he made a positive play. You can NEVER say, he isn't good right there. To say he is the SOLE reason we had a chance to win this game, it's complete bias junk.
     
  3. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    David Martin... :pity:
     
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  4. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Not this season he wasn't. Didn't see BM get separation after the catch all season.
     
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  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, I've seen enough of it to want to see more of it out of Chad Henne defenders or whatever.
     
  6. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As are the people that can't see the staff has also hurt him big time.
     
  7. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Alright. Now I'm done debating and conversing with you. This coming from the same guy who got pissed about getting a baseball analogy and the same phrase thrown out at him earlier this week.

    You realize that when you post stuff like that, you look completely ridiculous. Again, coming from the same guy who posted something about ignorance. You've done nothing to debate what I say in posts...ever...only revert directly to this. It's not fun debating with you. You anger me and everyone else that does because of this stuff.
     
  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Did you see Jahvid Best's TD today? He caught a short pass and turned it into a big play, a TD. He is a playmaker, and he made his QB look good. No Miami WR has done that ALL YEAR. In order for us to get a big play, we need sneak one of our slow WRs past the defense and have Henne throw a perfect pass. You can't go deep once a game and expect your QB to hit those throws. QB's need to be in rythym, feeling good, feeling confident. You need to take multiple shots downfield per game if you expect to have any success. But we dont do that b/c we're conservative and we dont have the players for it. God forbid we go deep on 1st down & end up in a 2nd and 10, Sparano will be ready to send out the punt team. Henning will call for the WC.

    Lastly, if our QB is so bad, then why are we throwing the ball 40 times a game? Because our only chance of sustaining offense is with Chad Henne putting the ball into the air, and we all can see he's not a very good QB. That should tell you where the problem starts. Hint: it rhymes with "NO RUNNING GAME".
     
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  9. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well...he had plenty of separation today on a route that Chad Henne missed him for an easy TD.
     
  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm sorry, but your arguments today (outside of the Oline) make it seem like you're looking for every reason to scapegoat Henne when in fact this was a team loss. The 53 yard TD by Best was on Henne AFTER Henne had given us the lead? I thought the defense was on the field for that one.

    Both of his picks were on his receivers. Both of them. Objectively go to NFL.COM and rewatch the plays and see for yourself. When you take away Bess falling and Shuler stopping his route (which they clearly did), then he did nothing wrong in this game considering the weather, lack of ground game, poor line, penalties, and injuries. NOTHING.

    With all things considered, he played a great game. If Bess didn't fall, that pass IS completed, and if Shuler keeps running, his pass is completed, too..... and we probably win the game with Henne being the hero of it. But NOOOO, the entire sloppy team performance once AGAIN falls on our young QB.
     
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  11. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    Well said, but wait for the excuses and personal attacks.
     
  12. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    No objectivity whatsoever, or maybe just a complete lack of knowledge. Great game, are you kidding. And as others have pointed out the Bess throw should've never been made regardless if he fell it was a poor read and decision.
     
  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I stopped after this sentence. That's ALL I needed to read. You're trying to argue points when you clearly have a bias and are stating such. Come back to me when you're ready to blame the ENTIRE team rather than our young QB.
     
  14. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    He didn't get out of his break in the double move. The ball was thrown to the spot BM should have been. He just didn't have enough to get there. He is not a playmaker. He is a possession WR.
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    He was stopping his route b/c it was designed to do so. That's how Bess runs virtually ALL of his routes.... only this time he fell. He didn't plant when the ball was in the air as if it were misthrown. He planted as Henne was releasing it. The pass and route were designed to go exactly where the ball ended up, only Bess was on the ground.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think we need two things:

    A OC who runs 3 wides, and a doberman to guard Sparano in case he tried to check out of a pass and into some I formation nonsense..:lol:
     
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  17. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Where is Padre and what did you do to him?
     
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  18. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I did see his TD. I was at the game. We don't see that all year because we haven't hit those plays. I don't agree with you regarding the deep throws. Those slow WRs get open at LEAST once a game for a big TD and Henne has YET to complete it. He hasn't made one YET. You know what is the difference? You're right QBs don't make every one of those completions, but what they do...They give them a chance to make a play. He doesn't even allow them to do that. We have big plays. Our QB doesn't capitalize.

    Also, if we use your logic here...We have slow WRs and we have to get lucky to "sneak" one of those guys past the defense. Who gets the credit for that? Because obviously for that to happen it must be good play design correct? I mean to beat the defense with inferior players and inferior talent, which you are so quick to point to, there has to be good play-calling and good play design to allow us to compete right? So, why then are you so quick to say it's Henning's fault? That's where the disconnect is...There is a reason to why we stink, especially on offense.

    Do I think it's the OC? Ya. Do I think it's the QB? Ya. Do I think one can co-exist without the other? Yes, Dan Henning.

    By the way, we had the 4th best running game last year, or something like that. Chad Henne was just as inconsistent. So where does the argument that a better running game makes him a better QB?

    We ran for 160+ something yards today!!!! He still stunk the in 4th quarter. How does that hold water?

    There is no doubt that our offense would be more dynamic with a Jahvid Best and/or better running game. I don't disagree with that at all! We need that. There's no doubt that Henne SHOULD be better with that too. My issue are the plays he's leaving on the field RIGHT NOW. The bad decisions he's making RIGHT NOW. So, to think we give him more talent, more pressure, that's going to change the fact he misses a wide open WR on a double move in the endzone change? How? That is what I don't understand.

    Whether it's Kevin Curtis, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne, Heyward-Bey, whomever. When guys are wide open, they have to be hit. When guys are covered, they're not to be thrown to.
     
  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    What do you know---- The Packers are throwing the ball 24 yards down field to their VERTICAL threat WR with a 14 pt lead in the 4th qtr. I'm glad we have the coaching and personnel at WR/TE who can allow us to do this efficiently.
     
  20. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And you're mind isn't made up that Henne isn't the problem? I don't understand your logic and reasoning. It's so faulty. Maybe that is why you directly turn towards personal attacks and name calling.
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No fair, this week I'm sober!

    :lol:

    Seriously though, let the Stat Monkeys do their monkery, I'd bet the difference in Henne between the 3 wide no huddle set, and the 2 rb set, is huge, maybe 20% difference, the int's sucked, and even Ross knows they sucked per Darlington's tweets after a conversation with Ross, however this is more or less evaluation time for the Roster and I liked what I saw in Henne.

    But I am not married to Chad Henne, he is and should be on the bubble as he is just a bumbler far to often.

    Bring in Orton or Palmer or maybe Hill and I would not complain too much
     
  22. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Absolutely agree.
     
  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Norv Turner.
     
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  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What are the two things you have never seen in the Miami Dolphins Aqua? Or they are tried and just never last because the fan base is doing exactly what is happening right now?

    Call on that experience,
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You have watched the Dolphins for 10 yrs now, what never happens in Miami in terms of the offense?
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    It was a night and day difference when that happened. Then we all of a sudden went back into that scared, 'let's preserve the win' mentality and we do the same thing that's been ineffective all year- throwing from 2 WR sets. How is it NOT hard for a defense to bring the pressure when you have two 4.6 WRs on the field to go with a 4.8 TE and 2 slow backs running playaction of all garbage? Where is the passing threat from that scenario?
     
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  27. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    I love it how some people call out personal attacks when they are disputed. :lol:
     
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  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Who fell down on the play? Henne?..... or Bess? Bess did, and he didn't fall b/c the throw was off mark. He fell b/c he was quickly planting to create separation on the play just as he always does. Only this time he fell down. Henne threw it where Bess would've been if he didn't fall and the LB was too far back to make a play if Bess didn't slip. There's no way a QB sees that coming b/c he's throwing the ball as Bess is making his plant.

    take away Bess's slip and Shuler stopping his route and tell me who on this team gave us the best chance to win? I can't think of anyone outside Henne or Marshall.
     
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  29. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    We never attempt to get any top rated QBs in any draft?
     
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  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Huge difference, as for the 4'6's, well for that style of offense they are fine as a the premium is placed on getting open over getting downfield, but when you only have 2 of them in the pattern..you should have the Te open and he was, Shuler made some chunks yds but also did what rookies do..made mistakes.

    People just ignore Fasano leaving the game as well.

    To busy with torches and pitchforks.

    Shuler could have had close to what..80 yds if John Jerry did not use the illegal chop block (there is that Oline again)...
     
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  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well aside from Ryan, we have not been in a position to take a top rated Qb in the draft.

    Recall Rodgers sat behind Favre for what..4 yrs?

    Have we had a 4 yr stretch where we did not need a qb in the last 10yrs?

    Nope.

    Add in, and this is really funny, as soon as you hire a new HC in order to win quickly they do two things:

    -Focus on Defense
    -Focus on Running the Football

    The last HC who tried to develop a Qb and who tried to develop an explosive Offense..was run out of town on a rail, since JJ took over for Shula it has been the same story every time, clamour for a new HC, that HC wants to win so they focus on Defense and Running the ball and voila!

    We do not develop a Qb..and here we are at the bottom of the cycle..again.
     
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  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, we could have had Brady Quinn..or Russell..:lol:
     
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  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    If you didn't have your mind made up about a guy as you've stated you do, I would love to debate rationally with you just as I do with everyone else who is objective about this team. But when you clearly are biased and ask us to respect your posts, it's hard to listen. Am I dick at times. Yes I am. It's my nature to be so when I see others vehemently laying false blame.

    I did react harshly to my baseball analogy b/c you retorted with a straw man's argument.
     
  34. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    We have not been in a position to take a QB in the first round in the past ten years??? I have a hard time believing that.
     
  35. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're referring to me, where was I disputed? In the replies it stated that's all I need to read, which was the first sentence, and personal attack followed...

    Or my favorite...do you watch the games? Do you understand football? How at all does that any value to a debate or conversation?
     
  36. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That was into a crazy wind.... and that was one of the only times he threw downfield all game. It's very difficult on a QB to make 1 good pass downfield when that's the only opportunity he has. That's not excuse making; that's just a fact. I'm sorry I offended you before. How about this compromise: I promise to respect every one of your posts if you promise to be objective about each game? Sounds fair to me.
     
  37. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Not sure I understand you. The throw to Best was a 5 yd route that he turned into a TDD with his speed. Henne completes 5 yd passes all day, but his WRs get tackled right away, they never get big chinks on their own. So to be objective, you can say Henne doesnt hit his deep balls, and the WRs never make any plays for the QB.

    Yes, we use play design to get deep. Double moves, flea flickers mostly. Good offenses can just line up and run past you for a deep pass, or they can catch a short pass and take it deep, great offenses can do both, bad offenses can do neither. Add in the no running game, and it easy to see what the problem here is.

    I think that Henning is much easier to replace than Henne is. Henne has made decent strides this year. Defenses have keyed on his weaknesses, he's played a tougher schedule, and his running game has fallen apart. Yet his stats are marginally better. I call that an improvement, though a lot more improvement is needed. I definitely dont see enough to make a final judgment that he's a bust. I'm just not as smart as some of the guys on here I suppose.


    160 is a stat, one that doesnt matter IMO. When the game was on the line, up by 10, 4 minutes to go, thats when we needed to run the ball. We couldnt. Instead we had Henne, our young, inexperienced QB, throwing into the wind, into shell coverage, trying to make a play. That's inexcusable.

    I agree Henne is leaving plays on the field. He's not that good, and I dont see anyone claiming that he is. What I, and a few other are saying, is that he's not the reason we're losing games. Henne is being put in a situation where it is very difficult to play well consistently, and it no surprise that he's been inconsistent. Give him some playmakers and a system that suits his strengths, and I think he'll be an above average-good QB. If not, I prefer hot sauce with my crow.
     
  38. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Poor read and decision? Are you kidding?
    A. Bess is our 3rd down target and 1 of ONLY 2 guys on the field whom Henne has ANY rapport with. Is that hard to understand?
    B. Bess was open by 2 yards before he fell. That was an easy completion. EASY. Go back and rewatch it a few times.

    Take away the Bess fall and Shuler's stopped route and please tell my how it's not considered a great game considering the SERIOUS problems on offense and the weather. ???????? I'm all ears.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Oh sure, believe me when I say I am not clamouring for the unlamented Cam Cameron, what I am pointing out that with every single previous Head Coach, the offense was just the step child to the Defense Sparano to his credit tried to balance the two units, but missing in 09 on Turner and White..hurt.

    Hurt in the sense that now instead of an aggressive attacking offense choc full of weapons, we have this disabled offense that cannot decide if it wants to attack, or it wants to do what every other Dolphins coach in the last 15yrs have done..play it safe.

    Bashing Henne when he IS attacking and doing well while doing so to me is just more of the same that I've heard for the last 15 yrs.

    If your Qb is going to attack the defense, when he messes up you cannot then tell him he sucks as he leaves the field..be happy for once they were attacking down the field.

    Jon Gruden...:chuckle:

    That is the third thing that happens, the "Savior Head Coach!"

    "If only so and so were hired! Things would be great!"

    Never works..because the first thing they want to do is "bring in his own guys" so they can..Play Good Defense and Run the Football.
     
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  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Aaron Rodgers is UNREAL.
     
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