Are you the one who says Henne is a good Quarterback already? I don't think I need any lessons from you
Would you care to tell me how many guys were around Best during his 53 yard TD? See what we're getting at? If there's a good COB back on the darn team, then plays like these wouldn't seem so silly..... or if our OC realized Ronnie's limitations, then maybe he wouldn't be involved in the last 30 seconds of the passing game period.
maybe you are watching on a fuzzy tv screen....you know like back in the days when you have one tv for picture and one on top for sound...........and you changed the channel with a wrench? The screen kept moving downward.............. you have to hold some foil at an angle........... cuz your tv works different from the rest of the tvs we have.................lol.............seriuosly appreciate the passion of fans like you to speak your peace....we dont agree but i respect your opinion
Don't believe it! The pass was caught by the Lb'er directly to the right of where Bess layed on the ground. It was a dangerous pass even if Bess does not slip...
well geez,, would that make every QB an all star if everything was so favorable. Peyton throws to no bobies and Brady throws to nobodys.........and henne throws to the other team
Since you've seen so many games over the past 40 years in person, then you should be able to tell that the offense has tons of problems in general. With 40 years of history, it shouldn't be difficult to notice that this year's group of guys do NOT make plays with the ball once it's in their hands. Have you noticed this year that we have yet to have a TD from an INT? Have you noticed that our return game does nothing for helping out our offense like Ted Ginn did when he won 2 games for us on returns last year? After 40 years, you'd have to know that missing dynamics, lacking speed, injuries, being 1 dimensional, lacking the ability to pick up chunk yards, and having an Oline and WR-TE unit that are jumbled around all season do nothing for cohesion, consistency, or production. I understand your frustration. I really do. Do you honestly feel that you're any more frustrated than I am? I have 14,000 posts here in a year and a half; trust me, I care deeply that things are in the crapper on offense. I understand how much easier it is to blame the guy who's supposed to be leading the team. If our QB were a veteran and there were no issues at Oline, WR, TE, inexperience, coaching, playmaking ability, then I'd be right there with you calling for our QB's replacement. I've seen enough QBs come through the revolving door the past 10 years to keep me from wanting to jump right back into that ugly predicament. Going into panic mode and ditching Henne after this years horrendous overall offensive woes will more than likely put us right back into that revolving door mode. I, for one, do not want to keep doing that for another 10 years. Henne has an entire offseason to work on zone coverage and 'looking off coverage'. The organization has an entire offseason to build up the offense in a way that prevents teams from constantly running cover 2 at us all game. You've seen how good Henne is vs man coverage. He tears it apart. That has to be taken into consideration. We have an entire offseason to make us less predictable. This offense does not allow Chad to play to his strengths. I'm not shocked at all the way our QB has played this year with everything considered.
It's not a completely different situation. Detroit has a back who can make plays when he has the ball.... make people miss.... and the speed to pick up quick yards. We do not.
Show me one time where I wrote that Henne is anything...good or bad. How many times do I have to write how I feel about Henne before someone actually comprehends it? I think that's the reason half of these threads turn into arguments. People just reply without reading the post they are replying to. That an dthey just make **** up as they go. Again, you're 100% wrong.
No, it was a completely different situation. if the play didn't work Detroit could run another play and then another play. If miami's play didn't work they could have ran one play at best.
Oh thats right. You just defend Henne to no end and post up quotes from others who say he's good. <insert sarcasm> Yeah, I got the wrong person. You're the one who likes to say how people are illiterate and can't comprehend things, and the occassional name drop insult. That's why most things turn to arguments, not because someone mistook you for someone. <not being sarcastic> It's ok though. I'm not mad at ya...
The only thing I've defended is Henne's lack of experience. I've never waivered in my opinion *cough*cough* of him. Why? Because I am objective and exude common sense and practicality. The facts are, I, based upon REAL facts and objective stats, want to see Henne play another full year with a different OC (and hopefully a ground game), in order to find out if he can be a franchise QB for the Miami Dolphins. I, in all of my common sense, practicality, and objectivity, understand that MOST NFL QB's need more than 26 starts, especially under these circumstances, to show what they can do. If after next season Henne hasn't progressed, get rid of him. However, dumping him now, without really knowing what he is, would be the ultimate bone-head move. P.S. You don't understand the Marshall quote in my sig.
Oh I clearly understand it. Clearly, and I just so happened to hear Marshall say it on the radio live. It is also, imo, exactly what I'm talking about. I have said it a thousand times as well. Henne needs more time to learn. Except the only thing Henne deserves is another chance to prove he MAY be a starter in the NFL. MAY BE, and with another two Qb's to challenge it. I do have my doubts about the man, but I'm all for giving him another chance as long as the other competition is as, or could be, better than him.
Monday Night Football QBs: In just over a half of play, Brees and Ryan have thrown downfield <roughly> 30+ yards 4 times total and missed every one. Ryan missed a WIDE OPEN Jenkins deep, and then he underthrew him in the endzone when he had separation on the DB. B/c he missed the TD, Atlanta instead turned the ball over the very next play. 2 deep passes each in just over a half of play where as Henne's only been able to throw 12 all season, completing 3 of them. If these guys don't make another deep attempt, they'd both finish 0 for, and as such, they'd look like crap. I'm gonna track it all game to see if they get a big pass in to one of their playmakers that ends up becoming a difference maker. Henne is no different than Ryan or Brees in this department. It's difficult to be successful with less than 1 deep attempt per game. You gotta thrown downfield 3-4 times per game if you want to reap any rewards. NO QB in the NFL is going to have a 100% completion rate on deep passes, which is what you'd have to have if you want to be successful at it but only attempt it once per game like Chad. Think about it: you either get 100% for the game, or you get 0%. If you have the personnel to do it 2-4 times per game than you have the ability to miss a few passes and still end up making a big play. Added: Ryan just threw a wobbler 25 yards downfield that was a little wide left of Gonzalez. Added: Brees threw a should-be pick on a deep pass over the middle. Now he's 0-3. Added: No deep pass completed IIRC.... making it 0 for 5.
I've got nothing wrong with bringing in another good QB and letting the best man win the job, but I prefer not to do that at the expense of a valuable 1st or traded back 2nd round pick...... and I don't want to do it to where we ignore Henne's needs entirely and don't give him the tools needed to succeed. IMO I'd get a few playmakers who meet his needs/skill set and draft a big armed QB who would match up to the same personnel if Henne for some reason doesn't cut it. I'd make sure some of these skill players allow us to attack a cover 2 better so Henne doesn't have to work so hard and can spend more time focusing on the nuances of the position like looking off coverage and pump fakes..... then put him in positions to where we know he has a better chance of succeeding like: more 3 WR sets, 1 TE sets, use of motion, speeding up the tempo, and playing similarly to how we've done when we're trailing a game. I'd also make sure we had another stud redzone threat opposite Marshall so we can get Henne more opportunities down there rather than WC calls and playing for FGs.
Todd, I thought the same thing a few weeks ago when I watched the Steelers/Jets game (I'm pretty sure it was that game). So many "deep" passes were off the mark I could only imagine what it'd (the reaction) have been like if Henne were in place of either QB.
It really is common place when you start paying attention to it. IMO It seems to stick out like a sore thumb here b/c we don't have those "extra" opportunities to avenge the early misses that make us forget about them and jump for joy instead. Remember Chad's beautiful TD to Ginn vs NY? Do you think any of us would be complaining if he threw 2 long misses prior to the TD? Probably not I would think. I honestly feel that Henne's arm isn't so horrible that he couldn't go 1 for 3 (or 2/4) on deep passes per game if he had a true vertical threat to develop some real chemistry with.
Personally, I'm fine if people want to complain about Henne's deep "accuracy" (though I usually won't). I mean I killed him for the Hartline pick, I'm certainly more ok with overthrows than that. However, I have said before that what I take issue with is that he only goes deep like once a game (if that). I don't know if that's on him or the coaches. Either way, I don't like it.
I don't like it either. I cant stand it actually. I'm not sure who it falls on but I do know that guys with cannon arms usually enjoy using them rather than checking down..... and if you go back to his Michigan days, he seemed to love throwing the ball downfield. I'm inclined to believe that the coaching staff's conservative, "dont turn the ball over" mentality has made him become too tentative..... and I also feel he doesn't trust throwing to Hartline downfield the same way he did the speedy Manningham and big, physical Edwards in college. Honestly, would you?
just thinking about our 2010 draft re-do based on our obvious offensive needs. Jahvid Best Koa Misi Jimmy Graham Jacoby Ford (trade up) This just makes me wanna buy a gun.
If this team does not get another Qb, no matter how, they'd be foolish. Henne has shown spurts, spits, and gashes, that he belongs, and does not belong all in the same games. Tools have nothing to do with bad passes (and I'm not hearing that he does not have impact players) and imo he has some really awesome intangibles but is missing a few of the main ones. I'm not willing to sit around to wait and see if Henne gathers more tools from the woodshed. Not if I'm the coach and especially the GM. I get him, at the very least, a Qb of equal talent (vet, or rook) and let them duke it out. May the best Qb win fair and square. NOW after getting a Qb, or having a plan at some point to get one, then sure, go get some Lineman, a big bruising young Rb, and a speedy Wr that is a solid return guy and if possible another TE. But make no mistake. It is my opinion that a Qb is the most important of any player to aquire.
I also feel QB is a big need, but more so b/c we're gonna need a backup and haven't seen Brandstater in live action in aqua and orange. I also want to challenge Henne, but I personally don't want to draft to replace him...... yet.
They need a veteran who needs to prove himself to push Henne for the starting spot. Henne has not proven that he is a starting quarterback of the future.
You respond snidely to me after I pay you a courtesy and now want to whine about insults? Make up your mind. You're totally right. Chad Henne is such an idiot! Why on Earth would he ever think that Ronnie Brown uncovered and running behind Brandon Marshall might be able to get passed Nathan Vasher (all 5'11" 185 lbs. of him) and get out of bounds? The standard you're setting for the quarterback to throw the ball begs the question of why to ever call the play in the first place. With 19 seconds left, you don't have the luxury of calling a play where you only expect the quarterback to make the throw a small percentage of the time. And it's only a small percentage of the time that the quarterback is going to be able to be 100% sure that the back can get out of bounds. At some point, you have to expect that your receiver and back can "execute" when given numbers on an undersized cornerback.
If you wish to believe my response was snidely, that is your decision. There was no snide intended from this end. You created the snideness and then proceeded to insult me. If you wish for the version to be different, that is your choice. Also, that is a good question you ask adam. Why would Chad Henne throw the ball to a uncovered Ronnie Brown with a defending within two yards of him, even though him getting out of bounds would get no yards and take a few precious seconds off of the clock, when he could have thrown the ball at his feet, get the same amount of yards and saving the precious seconds.
I see three things responsible: 1) Run game and its effect, or lack thereof, on the safeties 2) Lack of three and four receiver formations 3) Lack of speed I understand that people sometimes see open guys deep that Henne misses. That will happen with even the best quarterbacks. But I think the reason you don't see us throwing the ball down the field more is because we're not good at throwing the ball down the field. We allow safeties the luxury of sitting back. We're slow. We don't attack the safeties with multiple downfield routes out of spread formations. Oh, and according to various sources, we run predictable routes out of the same formations. Henne may be overly tentative to throw it downfield. He also may have pretty decent reasons to be.
We also get ourselves into a lot of 3rd and longs (as in 8+ yards) b/c the ground game has been ineffective for the most part (there are enough stats to back this up). Henne is PHENOMENAL in 3rd and 3-7 yards (54 attempts: 119 QB rating, 70%, 8.1 ave, 4 TDs, 0 INTs). Unfortunately the 65 3rd and longs kill us. A ground game that sets up lots of 3rd and longs does not make things easy for a passing game that's strength is short routes. That takes us entirely out of our comfort zone and into the waiting defense's eager teeth. 3rd and 8+: 40 attempts, 54 QB rating, 7.7 ave, 1 TD, 3 INTs. 3rd and 11+: 25 attempts, 36 QB rating, 5 ave, 0 TDs, 2 INTs. This backs up what we say about not having enough downfield threat when defenses know it's coming. We don't have the personnel to attack downfield, hence dumping off to the back, hence the 5 yard ave compared to the 8.1 average when defenses have to respect us more on 3rd and 3-7 and we're in our comfort zone. It seems like the further the 3rd down distance is, the harder it is for our guys to get open to make plays. But our guys excel in short routes, hence the 119 QB rating, 70%, 0 INTs. Because of Bess & Marshall's great short route ability to make plays, Henne has converted 34 1st downs on 54 pass attempts. THAT'S 63% of 3rd and 3-7 yard attempts go for a 1st down. This is what I mean when I say the receivers make the QB, not the other way around. This distance plays right into Bess's and Marshall's strengths. Once we get into the intermediate range etc we start getting away from Bess & Brandon's strength and our success drops drastically. 14 1st downs out of 40 attempts on 3rd and 8-10 (35%)...... and only 4 1st downs out of 25 attempts on 3rd and 11+ (16%). I know our guys don't get a lot of downfield separation on these 3rd and longs b/c I've seen it with my own eyes. This is where Bess needs to be subbed in for from a guy who can get downfield better or quicker. It's one thing for Bess and Brandon to make some plays downfield when defenses arene't expecting it, but it's another thing to expect them to make the same plays when defenses know it's coming. If we can get a reliable, quality intermediate to deep threat, then we should see these numbers greatly increase. If we can add a seam busting TE, then they should increase even more. If we can improve our ground game so that we're in less 3rd and longs, then that, too, should greatly aid our passing game and Henne's production & success. Let's put him in positions that we know he can succeed. What would our offense look like if Ricky and Ronnie consistently picked up 4 yards a carry to where we're mostly in 3rd and 3-7? I haven't looked at everyone else's stats, but I'd have to guess that Henne's numbers (and 1st down conversions) rank among the tops in the league here. Cmon- 63% first downs and a 119 rating with 0 INTs!!?? Heck, teams are happy just to complete 63% of passes in general. IMO we've got stuff to work with here if we can tweak the offense toward our strengths.... as well as adding new players who help us develop new strengths that were previously weaknesses.
The other thing to note is that: if we can get the ground game going to where Chad only has to throw it 30 or less times per game, he's actually about an 85 QB Rating Passer this year. It's once he gets into the 31+ range that he seems to run into problems during the past 2 years. Maybe 30 is his pitch count right now. Who knows. I'm guessing it can be developed over time to get into the mid 30s. His completion % and Ave/pass are the highest here, and his TD to INT ratio is the best (it's even in the positive). Maybe it's not that Chad cant finish out a game so much as it's Chad running into problems when throwing over 30 times a game. When throwing 30 or less times in 2009 his ratings were: 92, 130, 88, 87, 79, 92. That's pretty good for a 1st year starter if you ask me. 2010 the rating are: 106, 91, 100, and 58. Does this seem like a pattern to anyone?
You have an impressive understanding of the game and an amazing amount of patience and energy. Reading your posts, it reminds me of an adult trying to explain to children how life isn't "fair". Me, I've basically giving up on trying to explain the obvious to people who can't comprehend nuance or already have their minds made up. Fanatics will be fanatics, period. By definition they're not rational. But if I hear one more clown refer to his season ticket expenditures as a badge of analytical honor, I will probably be banned for how I respond.
Dunno, but maybe we become the first NFL team to import the baseball concept of a 'starter' and a 'relief quarterback' or 'closer'. Henne gets us through the first three quarters with his fastball and then a veteran comes in to close out the fourth quarter.
By the way, the Emperor is most displeased with Henne's apparent lack of progress. [video=youtube;Q7oqZ-_-O6Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7oqZ-_-O6Y&feature=related[/video] I wish we could get Darth Vader as a head coach. When the wimpy officer complains about his men, Vader replies "Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them." lol.
I remember a lot of the same analysis from those that insisted that Ted Ginn was the answer...give JA more time...Anthony Alabi is really a diamond in the rough....Wade Smith is really good...countless others. Yadda Yadda Yadda on and on....<sigh> I will say this though for the diehard Henne fans. If Cowher is brought in, I fully expect to see Henne in at QB. Cowher isnt a flashy QB type coach. He likes the bruising ground game and will problably focus on that unless Henne stinks it up.
